struggling to deal with these beats..

mrdavies

mrdavies	Small blind		£0.50	£0.50	£29.45
b123n	Big blind		£0.50	£1.00	£49.50
	Your hole cards	Q Q
trumperboy	Call		£0.50	£1.50	£31.73
mrdavies	Raise		£1.50	£3.00	£27.95
b123n	Fold
trumperboy	Call		£1.50	£4.50	£30.23
Flop
		3 4 9
mrdavies	Bet		£4.50	£9.00	£23.45
trumperboy	Raise		£15.00	£24.00	£15.23
mrdavies	All-in		£23.45	£47.45	£0.00
trumperboy	All-in		£15.23	£62.68	£0.00
trumperboy	Unmatched bet		£2.28	£60.40	£2.28
mrdavies	Show	Q Q
trumperboy	Show	3 9
Turn
		J
River
		9
trumperboy	Win	Full House, 9s and 3s	£58.60		£60.88

mrdavies

Just for good measure the very next hand! Brilliant from Sky.

mrdavies	Small blind		£0.50	£0.50	£18.43
b123n	Big blind		£0.50	£1.00	£49.50
CoxyLboro	Sit out
	Your hole cards	Q Q
trumperboy	Call		£0.50	£1.50	£75.39
mrdavies	Raise		£1.50	£3.00	£16.93
b123n	Fold
trumperboy	Call		£1.50	£4.50	£73.89
Flop
		7 5 6
mrdavies	Bet		£4.50	£9.00	£12.43
trumperboy	All-in		£73.89	£82.89	£0.00
mrdavies	All-in		£12.43	£95.32	£0.00
trumperboy	Unmatched bet		£56.96	£38.36	£56.96
mrdavies	Show	Q Q
trumperboy	Show	7 A
Turn
		7
River
		4
trumperboy	Win	Three 7s	£36.56		£93.5

MsBubble

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats..:

Just for good measure the very next hand! Brilliant from Sky. mrdavies Small blind   £0.50 £0.50 £18.43 b123n Big blind   £0.50 £1.00 £49.50 CoxyLboro Sit out           Your hole cards Q Q       trumperboy Call   £0.50 £1.50 £75.39 mrdavies Raise   £1.50 £3.00 £16.93 b123n Fold         trumperboy Call   £1.50 £4.50 £73.89 Flop     7 5 6       mrdavies Bet   £4.50 £9.00 £12.43 trumperboy All-in   £73.89 £82.89 £0.00 mrdavies All-in   £12.43 £95.32 £0.00 trumperboy Unmatched bet   £56.96 £38.36 £56.96 mrdavies Show Q Q       trumperboy Show 7 A       Turn     7       River     4       trumperboy Win Three 7s £36.56   £93.5
Posted by mrdavies

stop shoving queens on this type of board then you might not  lose x

mrdavies

Great response

MsBubble

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats..:

Great response
Posted by mrdavies

may i ask why its a bad beat your h/u with 1 other  you limp raise to £1.50 with queens pre flop and shove after the vilan re raises your 4.50 raise what excacly did you put him on  ul you didnt pair up   still but could be prevented here i think its not a bad beat its a bad call from you still looking at your queens

mrdavies

umm i dunno A9 - 1010 - JJ - J9 - K9 Q9- HE WAS LOOSE AS A GOOSE

SR23

You were in the SB two hands in a row? WP. Unlucky on the second one. 

mrdavies

Ahh yeah your right, well i sat our and reloaded, maybe went round once more but this was next hand i played!

He went on to absolutely crush my BR - trips 2s lost. AQ on Q high board lost.. one of them days.

SR23

They happen, man. I'd advocate raising more pre, but I'm far from being able to offer any meaningful strat advice. Sorry to hear about your evaporated BR. Run well. 

MsBubble

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats..:

umm i dunno A9 - 1010 - JJ - J9 - K9 Q9- HE WAS LOOSE AS A GOOSE
Posted by mrdavies

never a lower set then ??  like 3 3 or 9 9 just think you couldof foound a fold with  no reads other then its a lose player  hecould of quite easily had a a 3 3 9 9 even k k your queens are crushed either way when hes pushing you on the turn just need to spot this and be  prepared to lose a little not alot x

But i am no Pro lol

hhyftrftdr

Playing way too high if one bad session has smashed your bankroll.

Both hands are somewhat unfortunate. But I'd be raising both much more. If he's a poor station, then get the maximum out of them and raise much bigger pre.

Finally, lets not forget we want to play people like this, who we deem to be massively inferior.

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats..:

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats.. : stop shoving queens on this type of board then you might not  lose x
Posted by MsBubble

ok we should never be results orientated but look what opponent showed up with!! If he's calling pre-flop with 93 and shoving with A7 on 765 then folding QQ on a 943 board would be a catastrophe. we are miles ahead of his range so getting it in seems completely fine. Sure, if we were up against a tight reg then you might well question the shove with QQ. it's all about adjusting to our opponents

oynutter

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats..:

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats.. : ok we should never be results orientated but look what opponent showed up with!! If he's calling pre-flop with 93 and shoving with A7 on 765 then folding QQ on a 943 board would be a catastrophe. we are miles ahead of his range so getting it in seems completely fine. Sure, if we were up against a tight reg then you might well question the shove with QQ. it's all about adjusting to our opponents
Posted by F_Ivanovic

well said that man there, you think he's loose, you adjust accordingly-- not a lot, but enough to call with the queens for flop sake!

HYPETING

First of all, sit with 100bb.

If your not rolled for that level, dont play it. Simple. 

mrdavies

n Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats..:

First of all, sit with 100bb. If your not rolled for that level, dont play it. Simple. 
Posted by HYPETING

ahh yeah good logic, lose 2 lots of 100bb then..

KAM99

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats..:

n Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats.. : ahh yeah good logic, lose 2 lots of 100bb then..
Posted by mrdavies

Ah even better logic, sitting down at a table considering what you'll lose rather than what you'll win.

On top of that I echo what others have said. If you are having your bankroll crushed with a couple of badbeats  you are playing MILES outside of a safe BR. As a guide a player that don't care if they lose everything can get away with playing with 10 buyins in cash game, a serious player around 30 buyins and a pro maybe even up to as much as 50 buyins. Poker has times when it sucks and the cards run against you, and if your BR can't handle those downswings you go broke.

As for the beats. First one wasn't a bad beat. Unlucky he hit his hand, but you still put all your money in when behind. I don't blame you for doing it in either hand, and was 100% right play against someone that is clearly this loose. This is of course if you had evidence of this beforehand to go on.

lastly; I would say it is odd that both times you apparently posted your BB while in the SB. Don't you wait for the BB to come round and post? Add it up over time and this is wasteful. Should join a game at the BB and when you leave sitout at the BB to maxise your "free hands". Also, your raise preflop is too small, and gives him half decent odds to call in postion. 3xBB raise is fine if you are opening the pot. Add an extra BB per limper.

hhyftrftdr

I think you missed off a zero on your pro buy ins calculation!

clubhammer

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats..:
lastly; I would say it is odd that both times you apparently posted your BB while in the SB. Don't you wait for the BB to come round and post? Add it up over time and this is wasteful. Should join a game at the BB and when you leave sitout at the BB to maxise your "free hands".



I'm guessing this is an action table

Clyde420

 My tip here would be:

Always join a table where it dosn't hurt to lose a max buyin, seemes like you might be playing too high for your bankroll. I'm not that good, so I go for about 1000 buyins lol.

You should be happy to re buy everytime you lose a hand imo..

Your opponent just hit a long shot, the A7 isn't even that far behind, it happens, the trick is, not to let it hurt your bankroll too much..

As for everything else, seems to pe played fine to me, it's just poker...

KAM99

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats..:

I think you missed off a zero on your pro buy ins calculation!
Posted by hhyftrftdr

Err, no I didn't. I doubt many need more than 50, but maybe some would be tighter on it and be up in the 60-70 range. As long as you sepping down levels if  your BR is shrinking I see no need. If you having downswings that massive I'd take time off the tables and look at my game and see if I was missing something.

Where did you get teh idea for 500 from? Never seen any advice or pro say they play with a BR management that extreme.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats..:

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats.. : Err, no I didn't. I doubt many need more than 50, but maybe some would be tighter on it and be up in the 60-70 range. As long as you sepping down levels if  your BR is shrinking I see no need. If you having downswings that massive I'd take time off the tables and look at my game and see if I was missing something. Where did you get teh idea for 500 from? Never seen any advice or pro say they play with a BR management that extreme.
Posted by KAM99

You seriously think that people who play for a living (and I mean properly play for a living) will only have/need 50 buy ins at the level they play?! No chance. 

500 might have be at the extreme end of the scale, but a more realistic figure will be at least 250 BI. You could do 50 buy ins in a bad week if you're playing 8 tables for 10 hours a day!

Think about it....player X plays 50nl for a living. 50 BI equates to just £2,500. Player X has a shocking day and drops 8 BI- £2,100 BR. Player X comes back the following day to try and grind it back. Another poor day leaves a deficit of 6 BI - £1,800 BR.

Lambert recently had a 120 BI downswing. He'd have been broke 2 and a half times in your book

hhyftrftdr

Also gotta factor in the people who play the larger stakes on the site will probably drift between anything from 100/200nl to 1000nl depending on the action and the games. This would require a very chunky bankroll. 

Slipwater

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats..:

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats.. Lambert recently had a 120 BI downswing. He'd have been broke 2 and a half times in your book
Posted by hhyftrftdr

I heard he'd been living in a shed recently, so seems like that downswing has hit him hard.

KAM99

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats..:

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats.. : You seriously think that people who play for a living (and I mean properly play for a living) will only have/need 50 buy ins at the level they play?! No chance.  500 might have be at the extreme end of the scale, but a more realistic figure will be at least 250 BI. You could do 50 buy ins in a bad week if you're playing 8 tables for 10 hours a day! Think about it....player X plays 50nl for a living. 50 BI equates to just £2,500. Player X has a shocking day and drops 8 BI- £2,100 BR. Player X comes back the following day to try and grind it back. Another poor day leaves a deficit of 6 BI - £1,800 BR. Lambert recently had a 120 BI downswing. He'd have been broke 2 and a half times in your book
Posted by hhyftrftdr

Sure you go broke if you stay playing at 50nl. If your losses push you below a threshold you drop limits. If you stick at the same stakes when you drop down majorly in buyins you go broke for sure.

I don't play seriously anymore as an eyesight issue means I can't play as long or extra tables, but I used to play 4 tables for 6 hours a day roughly, and I used the 50 buyins. When I stopped I was playing 400nl, and not sure why you think a 125 buyins would make you go broke? Using the system of dropping down this shouldn't happen. If I had a 125 buyin downswing, which is a nasty one I'd be back at 25nl playing.

Simple fact is more buyins only means you can maintain a level longer, and of course effects how much you can lose too. Fine I have say 300 buyins for $400nl and I lose 125BI I'm down $50,00 but at same level of buyin. If I'm set for 50BI and lose125BI I'm down $18,750 but knocked down to $25nl.

Must admit I've never seen anywhere it written that pros use 500 buyins for cash game, but hey I've not read the whole of the internet. Where did you read these figures at? Would like to read it myself, as most places I've looked before it's more int eh region I've said as a recomendation. I personally found 50-70 is more than enough and I played using that for best part of three years. I find the idea of needing over 100 a little bit odd, but hey I guess if you say they do it I stand to be corrected of course.

hhyftrftdr

I'm not quoting anything that I've read. And like I said, 500 BI would be at the extreme end of the spectrum. But 50 BI is nowhere near enough for anyone playing seriously for a living. Absolute minimum would have to be 100, but 200+ is much more likely IMO.

Perhaps one of the forum guys who play for a living will give us an insight...

haylez83

in my last session i had aa in 4 different comps and it finished identical to this where the chip leader get there.

this has happened to me 4 time s in a row now, enough is enough always the chip leader wins the hands with the worst hand this is me done.

samantha25 Small blind 300.00 300.00 1345.00
haylez83 Big blind 600.00 900.00 5803.50
Your hole cards 
A
A

threeGHD Raise 2100.00 3000.00 32700.00
Smilodon All-in 5505.00 8505.00 0.00
okydoaky Fold 
samantha25 Fold 
haylez83 Call 4905.00 13410.00 898.50
threeGHD All-in 32700.00 46110.00 0.00
haylez83 All-in 898.50 47008.50 0.00
threeGHD Unmatched bet 28396.50 18612.00 28396.50
haylez83 Show 
A
A
threeGHD Show 
5
5
Smilodon Show 
K
K
Flop

6
5
10

Turn

Q

River

J

threeGHD Win Three 5s 18612.00 47008.50

KAM99

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats..:

I'm not quoting anything that I've read. And like I said, 500 BI would be at the extreme end of the spectrum. But 50 BI is nowhere near enough for anyone playing seriously for a living. Absolute minimum would have to be 100, but 200+ is much more likely IMO. Perhaps one of the forum guys who play for a living will give us an insight...
Posted by hhyftrftdr

I said before, I was playing it semi-pro. I grinded up from 10nl up to 400nl. I never would go pro with it though as firstly I don't need to do so, and secondly I'd hate to think it might ruin my enjoyment of the game.

I used 50BI during that period, and didn't find it a problem. Was I lucky? I doubt it, as I certainly had my downswings. If you didn't read about 100-500 buyins did someone say it to you? Or is this just your idea of a good BR system? If it's yours then all power to you, as it is up to a person what they consider safe to play with.

I can say this. When I first learnt to play properly I based some of my BR sytem off of people like Chris Ferguson, and some of the  video and forum lessons done by the pros on Fulltilt as part of their poker school. This was back before they got all in trouble. lol Funny enough as I was writing this I checked and the video of his is still up, but on uTube. Check it out, as I think his BR management is even less strict thn I suggested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsEAHpgw6l0

Google bankroll management and I dobut you'll find many if any recomending more than 70 buyins, but as I said, each to their own level I guess.

Lambert180

Playing for a living you DEFINITELY want more than 50 BIs if possible imo.

Sure you can step down but maybe when you drop to $25NL you'd no longer be earning enough for a living, and you'd also need to be dedicating some of your profit to rebuilding your roll which means even less of your profit would be available for 'life stuff'.

Realistically you need an amount where you can have a horrid month (or multiple) and still be able to withdraw your 'wage' without a problem.

So say you wanna play 50 BIs @ 100NL but you need £1500 per month to live....

You got £5k, you have a horrible month and lose 30 BIs (very easily done) so you now have £2k left, but you need to withdraw £1.5k for your living expenses.... what do you do now with your remaining £500? Go and play 10NL? Cos you're gonna really struggle to make a living AND be rebuilding your roll at the same time @ 10NL lol.

100 BIs is an absolute minimum, 500 is probably a bit excessive but 200 BIs is probably a comfortable area to be around.

As a semi pro like you said you were 50 BI can be fine, but if it's your sole income, you're setting yourself up for a fall.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats..:

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats.. : I said before, I was playing it semi-pro. I grinded up from 10nl up to 400nl. I never would go pro with it though as firstly I don't need to do so, and secondly I'd hate to think it might ruin my enjoyment of the game. I used 50BI during that period, and didn't find it a problem. Was I lucky? I doubt it, as I certainly had my downswings. If you didn't read about 100-500 buyins did someone say it to you? Or is this just your idea of a good BR system? If it's yours then all power to you, as it is up to a person what they consider safe to play with. I can say this. When I first learnt to play properly I based some of my BR sytem off of people like Chris Ferguson, and some of the  video and forum lessons done by the pros on Fulltilt as part of their poker school. This was back before they got all in trouble. lol Funny enough as I was writing this I checked and the video of his is still up, but on uTube. Check it out, as I think his BR management is even less strict thn I suggested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsEAHpgw6l0 Google bankroll management and I dobut you'll find many if any recomending more than 70 buyins, but as I said, each to their own level I guess.
Posted by KAM99

I know a handful of people who play for a living, and they are very comfortably rolled for the limits they play. Ryan also said something on the show a while ago when quizzed about this matter. He said (something along the lines of) 100 BI is feasible, but 200 or more is much more realistic. You played semi pro, fair enough. That's why I emphasised about properly playing for a living, ie no other source of income. This just cannot be done on a 50 BI rule IMO. See Lambo's example for why.

SCHOF78

Trying to build your bankroll is impossible when you have the kind ridiclous outdraws such as:

AA losing to 7's
AK losing to AQ
AJ losing to A2
10's losing to 6's
K10 losing to 6's when someone calls on a flop of J10J

it wipes a large part of the bankroll, losing that successive 50-50's is normal but this kind of farce is unreal and is against all odds and probablities, would love to see Skys 'Random' card Generator!!

I would challenge anyone to ever build a bankroll when this happens as often as it does.

Its not RANDOM

Slipwater

In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats..:

Trying to build your bankroll is impossible when you have the kind ridiclous outdraws such as: AA losing to 7's AK losing to AQ AJ losing to A2 10's losing to 6's K10 losing to 6's when someone calls on a flop of J10J it wipes a large part of the bankroll, losing that successive 50-50's is normal but this kind of farce is unreal and is against all odds and probablities, would love to see Skys 'Random' card Generator!! I would challenge anyone to ever build a bankroll when this happens as often as it does. Its not RANDOM
Posted by SCHOF78

Aces will lose to 7s (and any other pair) once every five times.

None of these are particularly 'bad'.