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Sky Poker Policies
We've all seen the kerfuffle around the skill an go competition. There are certainly one or two things I would like to see clarified:
1. In future, any such promotion should be investigated prior to winners or qualifiers being announced.
2. Sky Poker's policy towards collusion and any allegations of cheating should be given a prominent position on the website. It's only right that people know the procedures and what they need to do to report their suspicions, as well as the sanctions they may face if they are tempted.
3. Those sanctions, particularly where it involves promotions including large prize pools, should include the likelihood of evidence being handed to the police. There's no question that collusion is a crime and, while a £1 DYM may not be worth police time, a £5k competition prize would certainly merit it.
I have to admit to being disappointed that it required a particularly vigilant forum member to reveal his suspicions before the skill and go finalists were investigated. That can't be allowed to happen again. There are certainly other issues, though, and I think Sky need to either a) have a think about making their policies more robust or b) be absolutely clear and up-front about existing policies so that people like me may be reassured.
With that said, I'd like to reiterate that the Skill and Go promotion is an excellent idea and should be repeated. Preferably it would be made a constant presence, resetting fortnightly or so... but that's for another thread.
Any additional thoughts?
1. In future, any such promotion should be investigated prior to winners or qualifiers being announced.
2. Sky Poker's policy towards collusion and any allegations of cheating should be given a prominent position on the website. It's only right that people know the procedures and what they need to do to report their suspicions, as well as the sanctions they may face if they are tempted.
3. Those sanctions, particularly where it involves promotions including large prize pools, should include the likelihood of evidence being handed to the police. There's no question that collusion is a crime and, while a £1 DYM may not be worth police time, a £5k competition prize would certainly merit it.
I have to admit to being disappointed that it required a particularly vigilant forum member to reveal his suspicions before the skill and go finalists were investigated. That can't be allowed to happen again. There are certainly other issues, though, and I think Sky need to either a) have a think about making their policies more robust or b) be absolutely clear and up-front about existing policies so that people like me may be reassured.
With that said, I'd like to reiterate that the Skill and Go promotion is an excellent idea and should be repeated. Preferably it would be made a constant presence, resetting fortnightly or so... but that's for another thread.
Any additional thoughts?
Comments
1) Anyone with a bit of common sense could see there would be collusion to boost roi
2) Winners don't need further reward, they have had their reward by winning. The people in poker who need extra reward are people who spend money on poker.
SnG promo is one of skys best yet.
I'm assuming you have a gripe as you are not a winning player.
Anyway. That is clearly not the point of the thread. Start another one if you want to start the debate on the pro's and con's of this promo. I guarentee you'l be outnumbered though.
I'm confused.
DTM reported his suspicions correctly to CC?
Nothing was done.
He then did it on the forum?
Something was done.
Doesn't inspire confidence in the system.
I've stopped reporting suspicious behaviour, even self confessed multi accounters (cheats) because nothing appears to get done.
If I then post these suspicions on the forum (without naming names) my posts are deleted and I'm sent a PM warning me not to do it again.
Yet DTM is applauded (rightly so imo)
Inconsistencies? Double standards?
Explanation plz?
That's why I'm confused about the rules and looking for some clarification. Hopefully will get some.
Poker is in decline because rewards are designed for winning players not losing ones. This is the biggest flaw in online poker.
As for me being a winning player. If you don't think I am lets play HU, send me a pm and we will arrange a game.
Every tournament I have ever played turns into an all in pre shove fest. You might as well play roulette.
Again its a poor promotion as it rewards winning players. A business is based on people spending money. We need to see promotions that benefit players who spend money on poker.
The Skill and Go promo was over a 30 game min sample. Over this sample size there is not much of an edge between a long term winner at the game to those with large loses over a much larger sample. It's a sprint. As a result long term winners, pros, recreational players and long term depositing players had only a negligible difference in chances of profiting from it. That is why it attracted so many players to it. So it had pretty much as much of a benefit to long term depositors as anyone else. A similar regular promo on the Big Site has been running for years as it has blocks over an even short sample size.
While the promo is skill based and rewards those who win, the course is a leveller to all. And the fact the course is there encourages people to play, many many people had a run at it, the SnG player pool gets a boost and a lot of people got poker-tainment.
As far as your comments on collusion, you have a good point this promo, as with all SnG based promos these days, are always at risk of collusion, so I can't disagree with you too much there.
so with evidence of collusion during the recent skill and go comp almost completely removed from the forum, I presume that players who were unfortunate to be a victim will not be refunded. Sky Vs Stars?
i'd bet sky doesn't have the sophistication to find the AI hands vs those 2 players and refund the directly affected players as apposed to the whole table.
I recall when I started playing cash, sky would 'hold' my winning for a while so someone could check for patterns of who I played with and that the hands in question made sense.
I'm sure this will have some knock on effects/ramifications etc, but I think the easyest way would be to check your game history and if you have played any of the players involved, then put a complaint in to customer services with the details of your complaint and let them look into it & make a decision based on its individual merit.
Best of luck
just gives the impression if your a priority member its ok
....and there we have a perfect demonstration why "name & shame" is not permitted.
The 6 finalists play their Final in less than an hour.
Let's just wish them all luck, & not spoil their special evening.
+1
There are a couple of other threads specifically about the Skill and Go promotion.
Morning Borin.
Guess I'd better try & answer, as I doubt anyone else will.
These are my personal observations.
1) The Final Six, & their play, WAS being checked & audited, I already explained that, HERE
A misundrstanding arose though, & the "winners" names were accidentally released too early, before the Audit was complete. That was an error, & regrettable. These things happen, I'm afraid, they just do. It was most unfortunate, but in the end, a good & fair Final was had.
2) Sky Poker's policy on the matter of collusion IS well known. You & others may disagree as to how well it is implemented, that's a different thing. Collusion is near impossible to prove. I'm just guessing, but it's a semi-informed guess, & I've been in the Industry in various capacities for over 10 years - but 9 out of 10 allegations of collusion are unfounded. We saw a DREADFUL example of it only 40 minutes before the Final last night, though the Post has since (correctly) been removed. I'll comment further on that shortly. Reporting suspicions? CC first, as always. Failing that, a PM to Sky_Adam, Sky_Sam, SkyPoker or even myself - as many do, even in the last 48 hours, does the trick. I'll demonstrate shortly why "name & shame" will never be permitted here.
3) I've no idea if the Business will take it to the Police, but I'm pretty sure they'd not tell you or me or anyone else if they did. There would be less than 1% chance of a successful prosecution if they did, though, imo. I don't recall such a case, on this or any other site, EVER going to the Police, simply because it would be near impossible to sustain. Most fraud in poker comes from Credit Card malarky, or means by which people defrain Online Sites when Sign Up Bonuses & the like are on offer. These DO go to the Police, I believe. I honestly can't recall a single prosecution along the lines you suggest. I owned a share of an Online Poker site at one time, & all sorts of jiggery pokery went off, but nobody was ever prosecuted for a matter such as this. It's not practical or realistic. IMO, of course.
4) Again, as I already said, & replied HERE, it was already being audited. Even so, I'm sure DTM's input was very much appreciated.
However.......we DO agree that Skill & Go was something that was very well received by a significant number if players. Personally, with some degree of tweakage, & the implementation of lessons learned, thay it is done again in due course.
There you go, I've replied.
Have a good weekend.
I Posted this above......
"....and there we have a perfect demonstration why "name & shame" is not permitted."
However, the Post to which it referred was shortly thereafter removed, (correctly) so my Post now makes no sense.
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO MADE THE POST, I'm not here to castigate him or her. Forget that.
But what he said was...
"Player x (who had qualified for the Final) is a losing player, I've checked on Sharkscope, & he's really bad. I'll get cussed for this post, but too bad - suspect, or what?"
That Post was made 40 minutes before the Final was due to take place. How must the player have felt if he'd seen that, minutes before what i suspect was the biggest moment in his poker life?
But.......he had identified a COMPLETELY different player. The player he named had ONE letter different in his Username. So the "losing" player got his name sullied, & the player in the Final was, in not so many words, accused of cheating. AND IT WAS A MISTAKEN IDENTITY.
Now we get to the heart of the problem. The internet is not written in pencil, it can't be erased. Even though the Post was quickly removed, many people MAY have seen it. And if each of them told 10 mates "x is a cheat", & they in turn each told 10 others, a guy's rep is in tatters, all because of mistaken identity. We all need to consider our actions, & the consequences, BEFORE we Post stuff like that.
How would you like it if it were YOU that were wrongly accused?
And that is why, (I personally hope), "name & shame" will never be permitted here.
You only need one Post to run a persons reputation for life.
with a fresh look and after reading you responses TK I can see that what I said was totally inappropriate & will not happen again.
my apologies to the players involved.
The Post was removed VERY quickly. I sent a note to the Office almost the second I saw it, & asked them to delete/remove.
In a weird way, your Post was perfect, as there have been these relentless calls here for a while now to "name & shame", & both Sky Poker & myself have taken a lot of flak for insisting it is inappropriate.
If you had tried to demonstrate WHY it is inappropriate, you could not have done better than you did! OK, it was by accident, not design, but hey-ho.
So, hopefully, the Pitchfork Crew & all those who keep bellyaching for "name & shame" will now be able to see the dangers with it, & why Sky Poker, or any other decent poker site, will never allow it. The downside is way bigger than the upside.
Have a good weekend Suzy, & I'll see you on the Tables soon. You & I have shared, literally, hundreds of PLO8 DYM's, & I know you are a good guy. I'm taking a little break from playing this wek, for reasons I won't bore you with, but I hope wee share Tables again soon, & we'll have the usual banter & craic.
PS - Bust MOTHER for me whilst I'm on my little sabbatical, please. Someone needs to, in my absence, though it's my pleasure usually.
On the home page there is no indication of what is and is not collusion or cheating. There is no link on the website to a page explaining the wrongs of multi-accounting. There is no obvious way to report any suspicious play. There is no clear indication of the sanctions that may be imposed on anybody caught out.
I'm not asking for a lot. I'm suggesting there needs to be a prominent policy page on the integrity of the games on Sky Poker.
On the specific matter of the skill and go promotion and whether the police could be involved: Ordinarily I'd agree with you. It's unrealistic to believe that someone would be pursued for cheating in a few DYM's. However, in this case clear evidence is available that this person tried to cheat his way to a payday of up to £1500. It's not a trivial amount of money and we even have a written confession from the person involved.
More importantly is the broader point that Sky Poker or Sky Bet are not the right people to decide whether it's worth pursuing a criminal case. We can't have companies sitting on evidence of wrongdoing, simply because they don't think the police will take it seriously. The Police and CPS are the right people to make that decision.
The transparency of the poker industry is pretty woeful. Sky Poker keeps claiming that it's better than the rest and is a safe place to play. Here's a chance to prove it. Not that I expect to be kept informed on individual cases. It needs to be a standing policy.