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STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL

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  • edited January 2010
    In all seriousness though I can see Omaha becoming the preferred game for the people who wont let go of a hand or those who would call a deaf dog when they are almost certainly behind. I really dont know if players play hands on gut feelings or just try to take down pots with big bluffs....
  • edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL:
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL : You have titled this thread "STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL". This implies a lack of respect for the players on this site that I find distasteful. I tend to read and consider posts carefully before I reply; perhaps you should do the same.
    Posted by MereNovice
    far far worse threads have been started.all i wanted was peoples opinions on the thought processes in players minds when they make these losing calls.that was all.nothing else at all.ok my wording of the thread i suppose was not in the best taste.but once again all i wanted was opinions.i will not be posting any more threads anyway as whenever i do at least half a dozen others always always want to twist it.i dont understand why.dav
  • edited January 2010
    Relax Dave

    The reasons I never post on strategy/hand analysis threads are:

    a. I'm rubbish.
    b. There will always be a diversity of opinion no matter what.
  • edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL:
    Relax Dave The reasons I never post on strategy threads are: a. I'm rubbish. b. There will always be a diversity of opinion no matter what.
    Posted by elsadog
    hi elsa with regards to (a) lol

    with regards to(b) that is what i wanted opinions.

    alot of people on here have played poker alot more years than myself and i wanted there opinions.

    seems you cant even ask for that if your face does not fit.lol.dav
  • edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL:
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL : far far worse threads have been started.all i wanted was peoples opinions on the thought processes in players minds when they make these losing calls.that was all.nothing else at all.ok my wording of the thread i suppose was not in the best taste.but once again all i wanted was opinions.i will not be posting any more threads anyway as whenever i do at least half a dozen others always always want to twist it.i dont understand why.dav
    Posted by dav1964
    I know what you mean Dav, there are posters on this thread who could twist glass.

    Point b that Elsadog makes is spot on as well.
  • edited January 2010

    Dav - read my two Posts on page One of this Thread - therein lies why you get a bit of a warm reception. Trust me on this 100% - it's not what you say, it's how you say it.

    If you take on board what I Posted, you'll get a better standard of reply.

    Essentially, replies will usually be in the same tone as the question. It's how Forums work.

    Have a good evening fella.
  • edited January 2010
    dav, if you don't mind me saying, but you seem to be taking this very personally (not a dig, just an observation).

    I'm fairly sure that not one person has had a dig at you personally on this thread. You've said you wanted people's opinions on here & you've got just that but don't seem to like it when one or two people don't say what you want/expect them to.
  • edited January 2010
    dav i dont really understand this... you are unimpressed with the standard of play you have/are coming across... do you like or dislike this?
    are you celebrating the poor quality of play because you find it easy or are you slating it because supposed poor players seem to be winning when going in behind?
  • edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL:
    dav, if you don't mind me saying, but you seem to be taking this very personally (not a dig, just an observation). I'm fairly sure that not one person has had a dig at you personally on this thread. You've said you wanted people's opinions on here & you've got just that but don't seem to like it when one or two people don't say what you want/expect them to.
    Posted by silentbob
    silentbob,please i wanted opinions on what peoples thinking usually is when they make these plays.most of today i was observing others after i had folded.i could see that the player in question would lose but they could not seem to see it themselves.so i wanted peoples views.dav
  • edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL:
    dav i dont really understand this... you are unimpressed with the standard of play you have/are coming across... do you like or dislike this? are you celebrating the poor quality of play because you find it easy or are you slating it because supposed poor players seem to be winning when going in behind?
    Posted by BlackFish3
    you are an experienced player yes? give me your opinion based on reply i just gave to silentbob.once again why do a few of you keep on twisting everything?
  • edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL:
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL : you are an experienced player yes? give me your opinion based on reply i just gave to silentbob.once again why do a few of you keep on twisting everything?
    Posted by dav1964
    Dav - I've explained that already!

    Let's just move on, eh? Phrase the questions "just so" & nobody will twist anything. Please see my previous Posts.
  • edited January 2010
    sky rich do you think you could close this discussion as not a single person has bothered to give me any information that i was after from experienced poker players.i asked a question but nobody seems to want to give me any information at all.i thought i could get answers to a question from people with years and years of poker behind them but i dont think anybody actually even understood the thread.thank you in advance.dav
  • edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL:
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL : silentbob,please i wanted opinions on what peoples thinking usually is when they make these plays.most of today i was observing others after i had folded.i could see that the player in question would lose but they could not seem to see it themselves.so i wanted peoples views.dav
    Posted by dav1964
    Fair enough dav, that actually makes more sense now. If you take a step back and read your OP along with the thread title maybe you can see why I've replied how I did?

    Anyhow, to the question, you seem like quite an experienced player yourself so you can probably see some/most of these situations coming a mile off. Maybe the player(s) in question are still (relatively) new to the game and will make these mistakes. Generally not plays I make myself (unless I feel I have a good read on my opponent) as I always get a bit nervous when overcards/straightening/flushing boards come to my pocket pair and I'm quite happy to fold them. Maybe some people are just complete non believers?

    TBH, I really don't know the answer, lol!
  • edited January 2010

    I think I know when I'm beat.

    No further questions M'Lord.
  • edited January 2010
    I now call dav64 to take the stand........
  • edited January 2010
    In Response to STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL:
    IVE STARTED THIS THREAD AS I WANT TO KNOW IF OTHER PLAYERS ARE NOTICING THE SAME PLAY AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT I AM SEEING.IT IS WHEN PEOPLE HAVE A POCKET PAIR THEY SEEM UNABLE TO LET GO EVEN AFTER THE RIVER WHEN THERE ARE OVERCARDS AND THEY ARE BLATENTLY BEHiND THEY KEEP CALLING EVEN WHEN FACED WITH AN ALL-IN BET.TODAY I HAVE PLAYED £1,£2 AND £5 GAMES AND I HAVE SEEN IT ON ALL LEVELS.dav
    Posted by dav1964
    ok fair enough dav i understand now... you just want a response to your original post so here's mine:
    yes i see it most of the time and i love it. People are often unable to let go of weak hands... it can sometimes be funny but you have to remember a lot of players are inexperienced or just want to play for fun without spending time learning the game. that better?
  • edited January 2010
    In my experience dave, they are non-believers--- they simply refuse to believe you have hit the flop, the odds tell them they are right to not believe you, and they think you are trying to bluff them off their pair of fives. They hav'nt yet thought of re-raising you, just to check if you are bluffing, so they just call and hope that you are, thing is, with a non-believer, the bigger the bet, the more they think you are bluffing. They seem to think that poker is a bluffing game, and that most hands are won by the best bluffer, and not the best hand----as tikay has said before---"brawn over brain"----they think you have the brawn, and they have the brain---lol---they do learn, I have seen them learn, but it takes time, and a few hundred quid
  • edited January 2010
    In Response to STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL:
    IVE STARTED THIS THREAD AS I WANT TO KNOW IF OTHER PLAYERS ARE NOTICING THE SAME PLAY AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT I AM SEEING.IT IS WHEN PEOPLE HAVE A POCKET PAIR THEY SEEM UNABLE TO LET GO EVEN AFTER THE RIVER WHEN THERE ARE OVERCARDS AND THEY ARE BLATENTLY BEHiND THEY KEEP CALLING EVEN WHEN FACED WITH AN ALL-IN BET.TODAY I HAVE PLAYED £1,£2 AND £5 GAMES AND I HAVE SEEN IT ON ALL LEVELS.dav
    Posted by dav1964

    Hi Dave, yes i have noticed that some players do overvalue pocket pairs and call a lot when they are behind. The overall numbers of these types of players fluctuate and as some improve, others leave the site and more join! If you have noticed an increase then possibly there is! Happy days:)

    Some obervations:

    These players are either new to the game or simply dont believe and think people are always bluffing.

    These players will lose long term until such a time that they learn to find the fold button. Luckily for profitable players like my self, some people never seem to learn this basic skill.

    It is harder to get a read from these players because they call with hands that many players would insta fold. One thing i have learnt is that it is very important not to lose control of a pot vs these players. Also avoid taking coin flips. Also once they rereaise or start to bet big, its usually time to get folding. Also avoid bluffing. But as far as i am concerned they can call away without a decent hand or without the odds as much as they like imo. Its the way that i stay afloat!


    Hope this helps


    Greg


  • edited January 2010
    Thank you very much for the views that some of you have,most of you agree that it is due to some players relative inexperience.Once again i apologise for any aggro that this topic has generated.

    Now where is tikay?

    Tikay it seems that WEBBY234 has an exemption certificate as he is apparently allowed to throw insults behind the comfort of his keyboard,RE he calls me a plonker.all the best.dav
  • edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL:
    sky rich do you think you could close this discussion as not a single person has bothered to give me any information that i was after from experienced poker players.i asked a question but nobody seems to want to give me any information at all.i thought i could get answers to a question from people with years and years of poker behind them but i dont think anybody actually even understood the thread.thank you in advance.dav
    Posted by dav1964
    soz to see you down my old m8y,

    but the fish will always be there m8,

    nothing worse i know when they get lucky and  hook us instead,

    it hurts and i know a lot of posts seem to have got to you ,

    but as kofi tk annan said , [tk is  most likely a lot older than kofi lol  ]

    if you roll with it,
     
    debate yes but not attack the opinions it generates,

    it works better this way,

    always your m8,

    over and out roborover











  • edited January 2010
    Hi dave, only guessing here, but I got an idea that most of us know which one of you sounds most like the aforementioned appendage
  • edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL:
    Thank you very much for the views that some of you have,most of you agree that it is due to some players relative inexperience.Once again i apologise for any aggro that this topic has generated. Now where is tikay? Tikay it seems that WEBBY234 has an exemption certificate as he is apparently allowed to throw insults behind the comfort of his keyboard,RE he calls me a plonker.all the best.dav
    Posted by dav1964
    I completely agree with you Dav - nobody should be allowed to throw insults around. Quite why the Mods allow it is a complete mystery to me, & it saddens me greatly, but all I can do is the same as anyone else - use the Report Abuse Button, & wring my hands in despair at why it's necessary to be so aggro to one another.

    Feel free to ask the question of Sky-Rich, as I have no authority in such matters whatsoever.


    You a Radiohead fan? They did a track called "Paranoid Android", & it had (something like) this line in it......

    "When I'm King, you'll be first against the wall".


    They'd need a whopping great wall, I tell you. ;)

    Speak tomorrow, have a good night.
  • edited January 2010
    hey guys,

    i have had to delete a couple of posts from this thread as they broke the house rules.

    dav + tikay, yes you are both correct, personal abuse is unacceptable and warnings/ action will take place via private messaging.

    thank you for your patience with this.

    Rich
  • edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL:
    hey guys, i have had to delete a couple of posts from this thread as they broke the house rules. dav + tikay, yes you are both correct, personal abuse is unacceptable and warnings/ action will take place via private messaging. thank you for your patience with this. Rich
    Posted by Sky_Rich
    well once again sky rich,
     
    you have shown yourself to be the back bone of skypoker forum,

    i know its your job,

    but i must say you are a top moderator,

    i am sure if there was a vote for the  topman in this forum,

    for both posters and mods,

    you would come out tops.

    over and out roborover !

  • edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL:
    In Response to Re: STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL : well once again sky rich,   you have shown yourself to be the back bone of skypoker forum, i know its your job, but i must say you are a top moderator, i am sure if there was a vote for the  topman in this forum, for both posters and mods, you would come out tops. over and out roborover !
    Posted by IRISHROVER

    thank you for your kind words irishover.

    (the cheques in the post... sssssh)
  • edited January 2010
    In Response to STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL:
    IVE STARTED THIS THREAD AS I WANT TO KNOW IF OTHER PLAYERS ARE NOTICING THE SAME PLAY AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT I AM SEEING.IT IS WHEN PEOPLE HAVE A POCKET PAIR THEY SEEM UNABLE TO LET GO EVEN AFTER THE RIVER WHEN THERE ARE OVERCARDS AND THEY ARE BLATENTLY BEHiND THEY KEEP CALLING EVEN WHEN FACED WITH AN ALL-IN BET.TODAY I HAVE PLAYED £1,£2 AND £5 GAMES AND I HAVE SEEN IT ON ALL LEVELS.dav
    Posted by dav1964
    In asnwer to the question, its because you are playing 1, 2 and £5 tournaments, now im not saying you should play above that if its outside of your bankroll comfort zone, but lower stakes like this you need to expect bad play. But at theend of the day you want people to play like this because they are the players that will double you up at the vital time. If you see them on a cash table just keep following them.
  • edited January 2010
    In Response to STANDARD OF PLAY? PFFT AWFUL:
    IVE STARTED THIS THREAD AS I WANT TO KNOW IF OTHER PLAYERS ARE NOTICING THE SAME PLAY AGAIN AND AGAIN THAT I AM SEEING.IT IS WHEN PEOPLE HAVE A POCKET PAIR THEY SEEM UNABLE TO LET GO EVEN AFTER THE RIVER WHEN THERE ARE OVERCARDS AND THEY ARE BLATENTLY BEHiND THEY KEEP CALLING EVEN WHEN FACED WITH AN ALL-IN BET.TODAY I HAVE PLAYED £1,£2 AND £5 GAMES AND I HAVE SEEN IT ON ALL LEVELS.dav
    Posted by dav1964
    Hi Dav, I would say I'm a fairly inexperienced player, only having started playing in March 09. Usually, I think (and hope) that I lay my hand down when I "know" I'm beaten but now and again I go all the way even when I am fairly sure I know what the OP has got and I know he's beating me. 6 or 7 times out of ten I am, sadly, correct and my chips go over the table but 3 or 4 times out of ten I find he is trying it on and just trying to get me off my hand. I rarly play cash so my experience is neary all in the MTTs where, I suspect, there is a lot more bluffing going on. Probably the bluff ratio in the low stakes MTTs is nearer 20% than 10%. I have also seen some "players" calling all in on the river with complete air! A couple of days ago I had J T on a J high flop and then hit T on the turn. I bet PF, flop, turn and river and called called al the way by Ax! i can only assume the OP either thought I had nothing or she was under the influence of psychadelic drugs.
    Is this a useful reply?
  • edited January 2010
    Hi Dave.
    I see the problem in 2 ways, and yes there are a lot of muppet calls. There have been a lot of muppet calls for about 4 years now. In fact ever since the online game really took off.

    In stt's the bad callers will hit but overall you want them to make those calls. A 6 seater with 3 muppets is good not bad. You will win on more tables than you lose on.

    Mtt's are something different. Given an even spread of muppets throughout the tournament you might expect the same ratio as in the stt's. The big difference is that you can get through table after table of muppets but it only takes one to get lucky to destroy your chances or take you out. The odds are not in your favour to get past them all. The best way to avoid this is to be passive for the early stages and get involved later when a large percentage of muppets have gone back to muppetland.

    I understand your frustration but it's the nature of the game nowadays. Long gone are the days of expecting to cash in every mtt. I've been dabbling in cash games recently (something I never used to do) and the muppets there are much less of a problem. the odds will get them eventually.

    When the site starts the rebuy mtts that will cause different problems but I prefer my chances of doing well in rebuys against a field of many muppets.
  • edited January 2010
    Thanks again to the rest of you who have given your opinions,and there seems to be a general reason.Still a couple of replys though that keep seeming to think i am losing hands so once more my question related to my observations at tables,i was hardly ever in one of these hands as i had already folded.thanks again dav
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