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"£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".

2

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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".:
    I'd prefer to keep it as it is. I reckon if the £3.30 game drops to £3 they will take a rake of 30p and not 27p which will increase the rake. Ger would not be a happy camper!  No change keep it as it is.
    Posted by gerardirl
    Not buying that. Ger is ALWAYS happy. Almost always......










    For the record, there is no agenda in my thread. I just thought it'd be great to discuss these things.
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  • GaryQQQGaryQQQ
    edited July 2014
    Don't really mind either way.

    However if Sky did replace 10% rake with a 10% take from the prize pool it would be correctly critiscised by many as being a stealth rake increase of 10%.

    If you buy-in for £11 (£10 + £1) 9.09% of your £11 is being taken in rake.

    If you buy-in for £10 (£9 + £1) 10.00% of your £10 is taken in rake.

    So that's an extra 0.91%, a 10% increase on the 9.09%.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".:
    Don't really mind either way. However if Sky did replace 10% rake with a 10% take from the prize pool it would be correctly critiscised by many as being a stealth rake increase of 10%. If you buy-in for £11 (£10 + £1) 9.09% of your £11 is being taken in rake. If you buy-in for £10 (£9 + £1) 10.00% of your £10 is taken in rake. So that's an extra 0.91%, a 10% increase on the 9.09%.
    Posted by GaryQQQ

    Is.......CORRECT.

    But my personal theory was not to do that, as I postulated originally.

    I thought it gave better balance to include the alternative though.
     
    Based on the original theory, which almost nobody is commenting upon, as you say, & I said, it makes no real difference. To me, though, it just feels a bit neater & more logical. A "stealth increase" was not in my mind at all.      
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  • GaryQQQGaryQQQ
    edited July 2014
    If £10 + £1 was replaced with £9.10 + 90p I can't see anybody having a problem.

    The round numbers might help market the events, things like "The Tuesday Tenner", "The Friday Thirty", "The Fast Fifty" etc sound quite catchy.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".:
    If £10 + £1 was replaced with £9.10 + 90p I can't see anybody having a problem. The round numbers might help market the events, things like "The Tuesday Tenner", "The Friday Thirty", "The Fast Fifty" etc sound quite catchy.
    Posted by GaryQQQ
    BOOM!

    Love those.

    Friday Fifty

    Sunday Centurion

    Sunday Century

    Century on Sunday

    Fursday Forty


    The smaller stuff adapts well, too.

    The Quick Quid. (Hard to do that @ £1.10).

    In SNG's....

    Ten Bob Turbo
     

    I'd better stop there......

    Oh wait. What about Rainman's jobbie? Have to move that to 2pm.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited July 2014
    less rake = win


    anything else = marketing nonsense

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  • gazzaluf05gazzaluf05
    edited July 2014
    Hi Tikay, 
    Personally prefer it the way it is for the simple reason that higher buy ins = higher prize pools. 
    When I look at an £11 game, I always just naturally round it down and think of it as a 10er, and I imagine a lot of people would do the same. So on that note, I can't imagine anyone looks at an £11 game and thinks "If that was £10 I would play, not £11 though." With that in mind, I don't see that there is a problem just now that needs fixed. 
    Also, seeing a £10+£1 with a gtd of £2000 for example, makes it really quick and easy to work out how many players as a minimum will be in the game. 
    There may be other concepts that I am missing but that's my initial thoughts on the subject! 
    Gary 
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".:
    Hi Tikay,  Personally prefer it the way it is for the simple reason that higher buy ins = higher prize pools.  When I look at an £11 game, I always just naturally round it down and think of it as a 10er, and I imagine a lot of people would do the same. So on that note, I can't imagine anyone looks at an £11 game and thinks "If that was £10 I would play, not £11 though." With that in mind, I don't see that there is a problem just now that needs fixed.  Also, seeing a £10+£1 with a gtd of £2000 for example, makes it really quick and easy to work out how many players as a minimum will be in the game.  There may be other concepts that I am missing but that's my initial thoughts on the subject!  Gary 
    Posted by gazzaluf05
    That all makes perfect & agreeable sense, Gary.

    I happen to prefer to think in nice, neat, round numbers as to what I can spend, but it's not a big deal, I just thought it interesting how poker players come to accept these really rather weird anomalies without ever questioning them. I also thought it'd be great to chew the cud on things like this now & then.
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  • gazzaluf05gazzaluf05
    edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".:
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11". : That all makes perfect & agreeable sense, Gary. I happen to prefer to think in nice, neat, round numbers as to what I can spend, but it's not a big deal, I just thought it interesting how poker players come to accept these really rather weird anomalies without ever questioning them. I also thought it'd be great to chew the cud on things like this now & then.
    Posted by Tikay10
    Yeah it is an interesting topic. £10 actually being £11 is something you find out when you 1st start playing poker and there is so many more important things to learn that it just gets accepted and never thought about again. Until this thread.
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited July 2014
    When you play cash you don't really care about round numbers because you never finish a session on a round number anyway :)
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  • Clyde420Clyde420
    edited July 2014

     What rake % would be taken on a 10 game if the rake was taken from the 10 pounds?

     AS 10% of 10 is still 1, and if you take 1 we are now paying a higher rake %

     Even if you try the buyin as 9 and add the 10% you get 9.9.

     9.1 will give you a rake of .91 which makes it 10.01.

     And if you start faffin with more decimals, some prizes could end up decimals of pence, unless organized manually.

     I think it is too complicated to do and keep the rake as the 10% added. Otherwise it is 10% deducted in which we would be paying more rake. As we would now be playing 9+1 instead of 10+1.
     

     
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  • aussie09aussie09
    edited July 2014


    just suppose that skypoker has an income of £25M a year.

    a 1% difference in rake earns £250,000
    a 11% difference in rake will earn £2.75M (going to £9+£1)


    that's enough to pay for 3D graphics that have the cards rise from the floor.





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  • 12671267
    edited July 2014
    Sounds like a bad idea to me. Takes rec players maybe a day to realise that tournes are £11 not £10 and they soon get used to it and accept the charge no problem.

    Seems bad for Sky aswell, all winning players if they played the same tournies would be losing a couple of percent proffit.
         Plus all recs who were going to deposit £44 to play 4 £11 tournies are now only depositing £40 to play the same amount.
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  • Matt237Matt237
    edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".:
    Sounds like a bad idea to me. Takes rec players maybe a day to realise that tournes are £11 not £10 and they soon get used to it and accept the charge no problem. Seems bad for Sky aswell, all winning players if they played the same tournies would be losing a couple of percent proffit.      Plus all recs who were going to deposit £44 to play 4 £11 tournies are now only depositing £40 to play the same amount.
    Posted by 1267
    Definite +1 to all of this.
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  • jdsallstarjdsallstar
    edited July 2014
    If you took the 10% rake out of the prize  pool the breakeven percentage for dyms would go from  55% to 55.56 % (by my calculations).  When you consider  a lot of winning  regs win percentage  is around  the  58% mark it really isn't good 
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  • WilhelmWilhelm
    edited July 2014
    It looks like they're trialling Tikay's idea in tonight's Mini.  Seems a weird way to go about testing it, as although I'm annoyed the Mini now has a smaller buy-in, I'll still play it if I'm playing the Main.  Surely it would be better to just create a new trial tournament to get a gauge on how many people actualy want to play with rounded numbers...
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".:
    It looks like they're trialling Tikay's idea in tonight's Mini.  Seems a weird way to go about testing it, as although I'm annoyed the Mini now has a smaller buy-in, I'll still play it if I'm playing the Main.  Surely it would be better to just create a new trial tournament to get a gauge on how many people actualy want to play with rounded numbers...
    Posted by Wilhelm
    Well if that is true, it's news to me, but I don't see why they should not at least try it.

    If it does not work, job done, scrap the idea.
     
    It's good to try new concepts, imo, or think a bit left-field now & then. Nothing ventured & all that.  
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  • tomgooduntomgoodun
    edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".:
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11". : BOOM! Love those. Friday Fifty Sunday Centurion Sunday Century Century on Sunday Fursday Forty The smaller stuff adapts well, too. The Quick Quid. (Hard to do that @ £1.10). In SNG's.... Ten Bob Turbo   I'd better stop there...... Oh wait. What about Rainman's jobbie? Have to move that to 2pm.
    Posted by Tikay10
    No please don't stop :) micro stakes - Friday farthing ..Sunday sixpence..Thursday thrupence..Tuesday tanner..Friday florin...(bit hefty tht one..save up mi paper round money)..new decimalisation was a con :) young uns nowadays could benefit greatly in the maths we had to do to work out a 5bob each way on a 13/2 winner ;)...oh for original  question I think leave as is online as the std poker player is used to a reg fee and newbies may get a tad miffed if they play a tourney for 5quid and next go to a 5qd buy inat local casino (I know 5qd is unrealistic for casino but for sake of simplicity suits my point) and they say that's 6qd please,may be off putting. I'm rambling now so i best leave it there.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".:
    It looks like they're trialling Tikay's idea in tonight's Mini.  Seems a weird way to go about testing it, as although I'm annoyed the Mini now has a smaller buy-in, I'll still play it if I'm playing the Main.  Surely it would be better to just create a new trial tournament to get a gauge on how many people actualy want to play with rounded numbers...
    Posted by Wilhelm

    I just had a look at that, & yes, you are correct.

    It states....


    £4.55 + £0.45

    Perhaps it is the start of a trial, I don't know, I don't think it's a huge deal either way.
     
    Time will tell.  
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  • jdsallstarjdsallstar
    edited July 2014
    Yh no harm trialling it but seems a pointless tourney to trial it on. If numbers are way up or down does it really tell you anything considering the unique-ness of this particular sat mini?! 
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  • robertodrobertod
    edited July 2014
    in our home game, if we play a £10 sng [ i know its different to a tournie ]  its winner takes all bur the winner puts a fiver in the pot for an annual drink. 6 players, £55 to the winner and £5 "rake". it works a treat and maybe its more easily worked as a sng as to a mtt. thats it. im off to the pub.
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  • WilhelmWilhelm
    edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".:
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11". : I just had a look at that, & yes, you are correct. It states.... £4.55 + £0.45 Perhaps it is the start of a trial, I don't know, I don't think it's a huge deal either way.   Time will tell.  
    Posted by Tikay10
    It isn't a huge deal.  It's just reducing the buy-in by a fraction.  For purely selfish reasons, I'd prefer if the buy-in were increased by a fraction, but that's neither her nor there.

    My issue is, how much is anyone going to learn by trialling this idea on an existing product with an established player pool?  Not a great deal I suspect, unless you asked everyone who played the tournament for their thoughts afterwards. 
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  • WilhelmWilhelm
    edited July 2014
    In reply to the OP, I don't think it's a terrible idea.  Unlikely to really alienate anyone.  The benefit of the slighlty reduced rake is negated by the smaller prize pool.  However this only really affects consistently winning players, but since this idea seems to be aimed at attracting recreational players, it doesn't matter.  I'd still be annoyed if it happened though.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited July 2014


    Just a quick point, lads, I'll address it properly over the weekend, as I'm doing other stuff today, but....

    There seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding on the Thread, & I'd like to correct it before it gains legs, & traction.

    As I stated on Page 1 of this Thread, it is NOT about increasing the numbers of runners in any specific Tourney, at least not directly, or in the short term. It's much wider than that, more detail, the general "simple, easy fun" thing.

    I used to be really miffed with 'Stars, because they only took deposits in dollars. I thought that was wrong, & I told them so, many times. I can't spend a dollar in Tesco, & I don't carry dollars, why would I have to play poker in dollars? That, of course, was 10 or more years ago. It was a bizarre notion, that I HAD to think in dollars.
     
    Tonight's Mini won't get a single extra runner because of the change, not one. Nor is it expected to.

    Wrong tourney to trial it on? Maybe, but how would you or I know that, without the sophisticated analytics & data the Business use? 

    I did not know they were doing it, & have no idea what they plan to do. But I guarantee you that as a Trial, it will not be based, assessed or measured on a single MTT.

    Hope you all have a winning Saturday, I'm gonna be pokering soon, ooooooh. Excited!
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  • MattBatesMattBates
    edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".:
    Just a quick point, lads, I'll address it properly over the weekend, as I'm doing other stuff today, but.... There seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding on the Thread, & I'd like to correct it before it gains legs, & traction. As I stated on Page 1 of this Thread, it is NOT about increasing the numbers of runners in any specific Tourney, at least not directly, or in the short term. It's much wider than that, more detail, the general "simple, easy fun" thing. I used to be really miffed with 'Stars, because they only took deposits in dollars. I thought that was wrong, & I told them so, many times. I can't spend a dollar in Tesco, & I don't carry dollars, why would I have to play poker in dollars? That, of course, was 10 or more years ago. It was a bizarre notion, that I HAD to think in dollars.   Tonight's Mini won't get a single extra runner because of the change, not one. Nor is it expected to. Wrong tourney to trial it on? Maybe, but how would you or I know that, without the sophisticated analytics & data the Business use?  I did not know they were doing it, & have no idea what they plan to do. But I guarantee you that as a Trial, it will not be based, assessed or measured on a single MTT. Hope you all have a winning Saturday, I'm gonna be pokering soon, ooooooh. Excited!
    Posted by Tikay10
    Its not about looking at sophisticated business data, they are trying it on a 3max tournament which is non standard for the site. Surely you would change one variable rather than change type of tournament (which is picked based on what a few forum regs want for the main, eg a small % of the players that will play the main) and then also change the buy in.

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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited July 2014

    Not really Matt. If they plan to trial it seriously, it won't be based on a single MTT.

    Take your point, but it does not really matter what tonight's specific tourney is, they don't measure like that. 


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  • WilhelmWilhelm
    edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".:
    Just a quick point, lads, I'll address it properly over the weekend, as I'm doing other stuff today, but.... There seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding on the Thread, & I'd like to correct it before it gains legs, & traction. As I stated on Page 1 of this Thread, it is NOT about increasing the numbers of runners in any specific Tourney, at least not directly, or in the short term. It's much wider than that, more detail, the general "simple, easy fun" thing. I used to be really miffed with 'Stars, because they only took deposits in dollars. I thought that was wrong, & I told them so, many times. I can't spend a dollar in Tesco, & I don't carry dollars, why would I have to play poker in dollars? That, of course, was 10 or more years ago. It was a bizarre notion, that I HAD to think in dollars.   Tonight's Mini won't get a single extra runner because of the change, not one. Nor is it expected to. Wrong tourney to trial it on? Maybe, but how would you or I know that, without the sophisticated analytics & data the Business use?  I did not know they were doing it, & have no idea what they plan to do. But I guarantee you that as a Trial, it will not be based, assessed or measured on a single MTT. Hope you all have a winning Saturday, I'm gonna be pokering soon, ooooooh. Excited!
    Posted by Tikay10
    Sorry Tony, I caught the wrong end of the stick on this one.  Good luck with your pokering.
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  • salazarsalazar
    edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".:
    Afternoon Mr Kendall Why not challenge the "suits" to look at standardising the rake across all levels/games on the site so that everyone is on an equal footing first? On the MTT front I don't mind the current system, it is easy to see how much rake you are paying and where the rake is above 10% then you can avoid it like the plague!!!!
    Posted by dabossman

    +1

    I'm with dabossman, standard % of rake on all games

    it should be 10% on MTTs whether your putting down 50p or 50 quid. 

    It's my biggest gripe with Sky that they try and hammer the players who play small stakes by taking a bigger percentage  of rake.

    Voice this TK and lets have a bit of equality across the board


    Salazar
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".:
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11". : +1 I'm with dabossman, standard % of rake on all games it should be 10% on MTTs whether your putting down 50p or 50 quid.  It's my biggest gripe with Sky that they try and hammer the players who play small stakes by taking a bigger percentage  of rake. Voice this TK and lets have a bit of equality across the board Salazar
    Posted by salazar
    Hi Salazar,

    I already offered to start a thread to discuss this, but there were no takers. If by "voice it" you mean start a thread, OK, yes, I'll do it Monday morning.

    I doubt I'll convert a soul, but I think many of you might be a bit surprised to see some of the perceived logic.

    Monday morning, then.


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  • salazarsalazar
    edited July 2014
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11".:
    In Response to Re: "£10 MTT entry please". "Fine, that'll be £11". : Hi Salazar, I already offered to start a thread to discuss this, but there were no takers. If by "voice it" you mean start a thread, OK, yes, I'll do it Monday morning. I doubt I'll convert a soul, but I think many of you might be a bit surprised to see some of the perceived logic. Monday morning, then.
    Posted by Tikay10

    Well I meant voice it to the powers that be who set the limits. I'm sure people on here who play the micro cash and small stakes MTTs would be in agreement but there's not much they or I can do apart from play somewhere else.

    However a mention to the powers that be from TK might help


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