DYM's expected ROI

MrWh1te

For a winning DYM player, what kind of ROI would be classed as acceptable?

I have seen lots of different % shared around, its tough to know what is good and what isn't

DOHHHHHHH

acceptable? You'd need to elaborate.....

Any positive ROI is going to be acceptable to most people, a small negative ROI will be acceptable to some.

Anywhere around and upwards of 5% over a significant sample is very good, 7/8%+ would be outstanding.......

MrWh1te

ok yes I can elaborate more

I guess what I mean is, what would be acceptable to a good player and what would the top performing guys be getting.

I am 32% on £2.25, 9.8% on £3.30 and 12.5% overall. 

That said it is over a tiny sample.   I guess from your answer originally you would think this is unsustainable and as thus, I need to be prepared to lose a fair few at some point

I genuinally didn't know how it would compare (obv with a bigger sample size) to good winning players.

devonfish5

In Response to Re: DYM's expected ROI:

ok yes I can elaborate more I guess what I mean is, what would be acceptable to a good player and what would the top performing guys be getting. I am 32% on £2.25, 9.8% on £3.30 and 12.5% overall.  That said it is over a tiny sample.   I guess from your answer originally you would think this is unsustainable and as thus, I need to be prepared to lose a fair few at some point I genuinally didn't know how it would compare (obv with a bigger sample size) to good winning players.
Posted by MrWh1te

I'd give up now then if it was me.  lol

nice results.

LARSON7

Any  +ROI with 10% Rake would be pretty decent !

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: DYM's expected ROI:

ok yes I can elaborate more I guess what I mean is, what would be acceptable to a good player and what would the top performing guys be getting. I am 32% on £2.25, 9.8% on £3.30 and 12.5% overall.  That said it is over a tiny sample.   I guess from your answer originally you would think this is unsustainable and as thus, I need to be prepared to lose a fair few at some point I genuinally didn't know how it would compare (obv with a bigger sample size) to good winning players.
Posted by MrWh1te

Yes your ROI will drop.

If you are rolled for £3.30s stop playing £2.25s altogether.

5% ROI @ £3 games = 15p profit per game. Soul destroying. haha.

I agree with dev, 'book the win' and go play something else

MrWh1te

yeah I kinda stopped £2.25 dyms when you told me to on facebook

probably wont stop 3.30's yet, im still enjoying em

devonfish5

In Response to Re: DYM's expected ROI:

yeah I kinda stopped £2.25 dyms when you told me to on facebook probably wont stop 3.30's yet, im still enjoying em
Posted by MrWh1te

to give you some idea of what i was making playing the £3 games only, for you to have something to compare to, this was 2 yrs ago though & only sustained for a few months...

winning between £200-£400 a month depending on number of tables & hours played.

easy month £200  hard grinding 12-15 tables most nights £400

now, not so sure what i'd expect to be making. think £200 is easily doable maybe even £300, not sure if the £400 would still be achievable, probably is. not sure how many tables now run compared to then either, it is probably less now but that's just guessing, i haven't checked.

MrWh1te

thank you

I wont ever be making those sorts of grinding amounts.

To give you an idea of my schedule, I normally have 4 sites running at once, playing 1 or 2 tables on each.

For instance tonight:

sky - 1/2 dym tables
site b - 1 table an hour, just freerolls taking advantage of a promotion ($56 up this month on em)
site c - 1 cash table, 5/10c just to keep the BR heading upwards and stay on a leaderboard
site d - freerolls, brand new site so taking advantage of all the fish wasting no deposit bonus
site e - completing a challenge.

I wont have them all at the front though, for instance I will have a cash game at front that will sit out on on bubble of dym, freerolls I will just play shove/fold ABC poker till nearing the money etc etc.

The dym is kinda more of a challenge to see how good a ROI I can get, also to grind a decent amount and then withdraw my original deposit

jdsallstar

In Response to Re: DYM's expected ROI:

ok yes I can elaborate more I guess what I mean is, what would be acceptable to a good player and what would the top performing guys be getting. I am 32% on £2.25, 9.8% on £3.30 and 12.5% overall.  That said it is over a tiny sample.   I guess from your answer originally you would think this is unsustainable and as thus, I need to be prepared to lose a fair few at some point I genuinally didn't know how it would compare (obv with a bigger sample size) to good winning players.

Posted by MrWh1te

Your sharkscope differs somewhat.

You could be talking about a tiny tiny sample of your total games i suppose. 295 games is a tiny sample as it is. Think 1000 games will give you a decent clue at your roi for a given stake. 

Dyms can be a decent little wage booster though and, i think, a very good way to get a decent grounding in this crazy game. 

Gl

MrWh1te

My sharkscope looks terrible, and I don't know why. I am major in profit on this site (though admittedly, support did change my nick from a different one after some abuse so that could have something to do with it, though I don't know why). I think sharkscope shows me as -400 which couldn't be further from the truth.  I am not going to get hung up on it though, I know the exact profits I make on every site I play on.
I have played 16 sites this year and am in profit on 15 of them.  Funnily enough sky is the one I am not, I deposited £60 a short while ago (after not playing here proper/at all for a decent amount of time).  My balance is currently £50 but I had some terrible MTT results and a major horrific tilt a few days ago in which I lost £40 here, $50 and $30 on two other sites.  Other two sites are back to a + balance after those two tilt days and sky will be very shortly indeed (helped by the premiership promotion dammit!).
Anyhow, this isn't about my BR.


I am talking about a VERY tiny sample (100 games). I wouldn't consider my ROI as what I earning until probably way over 1k games to be honest.  And what I am at now wasn't meant to come across as any kind of boast, I hope it didn't read like that.
I genuinally wanted to know what a good ROI to aim for was.

MrWh1te

ffs I wrote a really long reply and pressed send and nothing happened, so here is short version:

* I don't know why sharkscope says what it does but I keep very detailed records and am not worried at all.  There are respected people on here who can verify stuff etc.

* My sample is tiny (100 games).  This wasn't meant to be a 'look at me and my ROI, look how great I am'. I hope it didn't read like that. I genuinally wanted to know what a good target would be for, over say 5k games.

devonfish5

i think you are doing 'brilliant' Mr White, very well done.

yes those dym results i posted were common knowledge & done on a dym £40-£1040 challenge i did 2 yrs ago.

didn't want them to come across as 'how great am i ' sort of thing either, just thought as you are playing them you'd be interested.

keep up the good work,

best wishes,

dev

MrWh1te

yeah ty devonfish, that was exactly what I was after

hagisboy

In Response to Re: DYM's expected ROI:

ok yes I can elaborate more I guess what I mean is, what would be acceptable to a good player and what would the top performing guys be getting. I am 32% on £2.25, 9.8% on £3.30 and 12.5% overall.  That said it is over a tiny sample.   I guess from your answer originally you would think this is unsustainable and as thus, I need to be prepared to lose a fair few at some point I genuinally didn't know how it would compare (obv with a bigger sample size) to good winning players.
Posted by MrWh1te

That ROI at the £2.25 is ridic good, over 60p profit per game and with with a 12.5% rake to boot.

That would put you pretty much top on the shrakscope leaderboads (for 500 games though, 100 games have some ridic unsustainable rates) 

Who said poker was dead!!!

Expect the ROI for the £2.25s to go down. £3.30 probs more sustainable as only 10% rake

cgoldie

I'd say 3% is good, 5% is very good, 10% is probably still doable.

unknown_username

Sorry to hi-jack your thread but how to you work out your expected roi. If I'm playing £1.15 dyms, what are you aiming for to make a decent profit over the long term. 

Sorry mrwhite

devonfish5

In Response to Re: DYM's expected ROI:

Sorry to hi-jack your thread but how to you work out your expected roi. If I'm playing £1.15 dyms, what are you aiming for to make a decent profit over the long term.  Sorry mrwhite
Posted by Tahtrizzle

hi mate,

i've just played the £1.15 dym's for a whole month (june, i think) as part of a dym challenge i am on. playing a max 4 tables & only short sessions & not playing every day maybe 4 or 5 days a week at most, i made a £45 profit

from them.

better to move up to the £2 games when your bankroll is better though, as the rake is less @ 12.5%

then moving up to the £3 games where it's 10% rake would be my aim.

gl, dev

ROI, i've just asked that same question recently.

        it's how much profit you've made divided by how much money you have invested.

  so if you have played say 10 games & won 7      thats 7 x £0.85 = +£5.95  less 3 x £1.15 = £3.45   

so £5.95 minus £3.45  = £2.50 profit

         so 2.50 (profit) divided by 10 x £1.15  (what u invested) = £11.50

         = o.217 then x by 100 (or simply move decimal point  2 places to the right)   gives you your ROI = 21.7%

unknown_username

In Response to Re: DYM's expected ROI:

In Response to Re: DYM's expected ROI : hi mate, i've just played the £1.15 dym's for a whole month (june, i think) as part of a dym challenge i am on. playing a max 4 tables & only short sessions & not playing every day maybe 4 or 5 days a week at most, i made a £45 profit from them. better to move up to the £2 games when your bankroll is better though, as the rake is less @ 12.5% then moving up to the £3 games where it's 10% rake would be my aim. gl, dev ROI , i've just asked that same question recently.         it's how much profit you've made divided b y how much money you have invested.   so if you have played say 10 games & won 7      thats 7 x £0.85 = +£5.95  less 3 x £1.15 = £3.45    so £5.95 minus £3.45  = £2.50 profit          so 2.50 (profit) divided by 10 x £1.15  (what u invested) = £11.50          = o.217 then x by 100 (or simply move decimal point  2 places to the right)   gives you your ROI = 21.7%
Posted by devonfish5

Thank you for the explanation

This might be a silly question so apologies in advance. How do you work out the rake and conclude how beneficial or detrimental it will be to your playing of poker?

devonfish5

the rake is 20% on the 50p dym games u pay 10p more which is sky's cut so pay 60p   paying 10p extra on top of 50p is 1/5th of that 50p making it 20% rake

rake on £1 games is 15%  so u pay £1.15   easy this one 15p extra is 15%

rake on £2 games is 12.5%  so pay £2.25   

then £3 upwards the rake is 10%  so £3 game costs £3.30  £5 games cost £5.50 etc. 10% of £3 is 30p

those rakes never change.

in a nutshell the higher the rake the harder it is to win, in theory even though the 60p level is the easiest level to play as far as skill goes., as you have to win 3 games from 5 to come out level ( 3 x 40p = £1.20 profit) & (2 x 60p = £1.20 loss)

 2 games from 3 to give a 20p win

at the 10% levels we get our best return for winning so winning 3 from 5 games at the £3 level we win 3 x £2.70 = £8.10  minus 2 x £3.30 = £6.60  giving us a profit of £1.50    (that ROI  would be; 1.50 (profit)div by 16.50 (5 x £3.30  our investment)  1.50 div by 16.50  =  0.090 x 100  =  9.0% roi

i'm sure there is a formula for working out the rake but these dym's have been as they are now for ages, and the rakes are what they are;-

50p games 20%  u pay 20p in the pound rake   (10p per game)

£1   games 15%  u pay 15p in the pound rake    (15p per game)

£2  games  12.5%  u pay 12.5p in the pound rake  (25p  per game)

£3  games  10%   u pay 10p in the pound rake    (30p per game)

£5 +  games  10%  u pay  10p in the pound rake   (50p  per game)  

devonfish5

sorry for derailing your thread Mr white  

MrWh1te

It's ok, you aren't derailing, its useful stuff

devonfish5

thanks mate,  hope i've got it right   lol

devonfish5

In Response to Re: DYM's expected ROI:

Sorry to hi-jack your thread but how to you work out your expected roi. If I'm playing £1.15 dyms, what are you aiming for to make a decent profit over the long term.  Sorry mrwhite
Posted by Tahtrizzle

so for you to work out your own roi, 

at the end of this month or now if you wish, take note of your bankroll

then in 4 weeks (or less) see what your new bankroll is.

also keep a note of how many games you have played,

then do the maths, pofit div by  cost of games (investment) = your roi

so example;  say your b/r is now £65

                   3-4 weeks time your b/r is £82   (keeping it whole numbers to make it easier for you.)

and you played say 57 £1.15 games

so, profit is 82-65 = £17

 investment is 57 x £1.15 = £65.55

17  div by  65.55 = 0.259 x 100  =  25.9% roi  for that period of play.

obviously this is a random example just to show you how to work out your own roi.

any + roi is good , as it means you are a winning player.

25.9% (this example), is not going to be anywhere near possible, especially at the £1 level.

i think a 3-5% roi is very good at this level especially with the 15% rake, even 1-2% would be good.

any more than 5%... give yourself a pat on the back, & get the champagne out  

thefa1lacy

In Response to Re: DYM's expected ROI:

thanks mate,  hope i've got it right   lol
Posted by devonfish5

This is too funny Dev. You ignored my ROI comments in your blog, but listened to a player who told you completely the wrong thing, and now your telling the wrong info to other players. It's as simple as below, google it yourself..

How to work out your poker ROI.

You work out your return on investment in poker just as you would work out ROI in any other field.

Divide your profit by your total investment, then multiply that number by 100 to get the ROI percentage.

 

devonfish5

OK MATE, let's clear this up,

FIrstly i didn't ignore your roi comments in my blog, go back & check, i thanked you for them.

secondly i gave the correct info here;

                                                

profit divided by investment x 100 = roi

I've no idea what planet you live on or even where you came from, & tbh i don't give a 4xxxx

I suggest you go back & play your £1 dym's or 30p turbos or whatever else you fancy & stop giving me a hard time, especially when we are here on another players thread.

I'll await your bullship reply, as I'm sure theres bound to be one coming.

I'll give my apologies to Mr White now  on your behalf.

MrWh1te

fight, fight, fight!!

devonfish5

In Response to Re: DYM's expected ROI:

fight, fight, fight!!
Posted by MrWh1te

LOL  

gerardirl

Dont mean to get too technical but just incase your comparing to other sites.

I work the rake out as follows 0.15/115 * 100% gives you 13% rake on the £1.15 games

£2.25 you pay 11% and £3.30 you pay 9%

unknown_username

In Response to Re: DYM's expected ROI:

In Response to Re: DYM's expected ROI : so for you to work out your own roi,  at the end of this month or now if you wish, take note of your bankroll then in 4 weeks (or less) see what your new bankroll is. also keep a note of how many games you have played, then do the maths, pofit div by  cost of games (investment) = your roi so example;  say your b/r is now £65                    3-4 weeks time your b/r is £82   (keeping it whole numbers to make it easier for you.) and you played say 57 £1.15 games so, profit is 82-65 = £17  investment is 57 x £1.15 = £65.55 17  div by  65.55 = 0.259 x 100  =  25.9% roi  for that period of play. obviously this is a random example just to show you how to work out your own roi. any + roi is good , as it means you are a winning player. 25.9% (this example), is not going to be anywhere near possible, especially at the £1 level. i think a 3-5% roi is very good at this level especially with the 15% rake, even 1-2% would be good. any more than 5%... give yourself a pat on the back, & get the champagne out  
Posted by devonfish5

Thank you for that Devonfish.

Im going to be taking up the same challenge as yourself. Its going to be a geind but hope disipline provails. Im not going to diarise it yet. I'm gonna play in the background a bit, see how it goes before potentially russling up moral support

unknown_username

In Response to Re: DYM's expected ROI:

fight, fight, fight!!
Posted by MrWh1te

lol! sorry for the de-rail