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Plo question
If u was dealt AAAA and silly enough to go all in with it what odds would would u be vs a random hand obv u be massive underdog just wanna know what odds u would be
Comments
4 of a kind isn't as bad as people make out - it can have some benefits, especially multi-way if you can get in for relatively cheap with a reasonable SPR behind The 4 of a kind should preferably be at least as high as 9's since it does actually have some post-flop playability in the way of blocking the nuts. As an example - the flop comes QJTr and you hold KKKK or AAAA. Nobody can have the nuts on this board and with no flush draws out there the only draw worth continuing with on this board is QQ and maybe JJ. TT is too risky cause even when you hit a FH with a Q or J your FH won't be the nuts.
The lower down we go with our quads though, the less valuable they become. 9999 on QT8 blocks the current nuts but an A, K or J in addition to the Q, T or 8 will change the current nuts. If the board has a FD on, it's even worse. Also, there are just less nut straights that lower quads can block (and when they do block them, there's more possibility of higher straight redraws). 9999 can still have value on 765, 876, T87, T86 though.
I'm taking a flop with co-ordinated hands, & re-assessing then.
Is A-A-A-A man then potting the flop irrespective of what I do on the flop? If he is, we will pick him off.
I'm assuming we are talking PLO, not NLO, of course.
Even if I know Villain has Aces, there are a lot of hands I will call to take a flop with, & then re-assess.
Hard to carry on barrelling with A-A-A-A if we see an all one suit flop, a paired board, or (something like) 8-9-10 & someone bets into us, or even check-raises us.
In "real-life" I think A-A-A-A man goes skint pretty quickly, though I can't prove it.
Interesting thread.
Think I'd sit all day v someone who potted hands like A-A-A-A. I'd probably go busto in the process, mind.
EDIT - all this assumes we start the hand with full stacks (say, 100 Bigs), & are not getting it in pre.
I think the replies by "itsoverforu" were excellent & thought provoking, but it worries me that players fairly new to PLO will take them at face value, without thinking them through carefully.
A-A-A-A is BAD, whatever way you loook at it.
The key to the problem is in your question....
"...talking about all in preflop....."
This is PLO - we are not getting it all-in pre-flop. We CANNOT get it all-in pre-flop. Skilful opponents will not allow us to get it all-in pre in PLO.
IN PLO, it's customary for it to be raised pre by someone, & then 2 or 3 players come along to see the flop. Good players in PLO always want to take a flop. If we have good aces, we can barrel all the way, yes, but against 2 or more opponents, good luck trying that.
PLO & NLH are different games. If a player, pre-flop, turns his hand face up on the Table & says "look, I have aces", we are still taking a flop with a certain range of hands.
In PLO, we want to play poker, see flops, try to exert our (supposed) skill edge. It is not NLH where we can just blast it all-in pre & bully people off hands.
A-A-A-A is really bad, imo.
It assumes, of course, that you can get it heads-up pre-flop, & that villain has 4 random cards. Which, in practice, ain't gonna happen very often.
"....So when we get bet into on a KQJr/QJTr/KJTr it's hard to continue on these boards without the nuts or top/maybe middle set
Again, that's not how it works, is it?
If you had A-A-A-A you'd need nerves of steel to pot on those flops, because they hit our opponents set & 2 pair ranges so hard.
We don't just need the nuts to continue, or top set - we can also do so with a really good wrap, or superwrap.
I was playing "Live" PLO cash last week, & played the biggest PLO cash pot of my life by getting it all in on the flop via a raise/re-raise jobbie. At the time, I had no (playable) pair, no set, no straight, no flush. (I did have some nuts, but they shrunk when I got it all in with 9 high.....).
Interesting thread, but we must be careful to give inexperienced players sensible advice. IMO, of course.
Wish we had more PLO or PLO8 threads, debates & discussions, I really do.
Great thread.
PS - well done in last night's Roller. 3rd for over £2,000? Very nice.
What would you do on the flop (unless you hit your set) if you raised pre with bad aces (no suits, no rundown) & got called multi-way?
The answer is obvious, of course, but I'm really keen to spread the PLO word to attract new players, but as most of them will migrate from NLH (we hope), they do need to grasp how different PLO is.
The same logic, incidentally, applies to 10-10-10-10, but more so, as it blocks all straights at BOTH ends. The 10 is an extremely important card in PLO. If we want to play a big pot on a Broadway board, or a middling rundown, we need a 10 in our hand, ideally.
And in PLO8, the same could be said of 5-5-5-5.
And, for reference, I almost NEVER enter any PLO8 pot without an Ace in my hand. I got roundly chastised by Mr Play Every Hand for being too nitty last night, as I never played a hand in one game for 5 orbits.
For bants, I did try the 10-10-10-10 trick in PLO once, hoping for a broadway flop, & it worked. Never had the nerve to try it again though.
I also did the bare ace trick for a £1,000+ pot in a PLO Cash Game at DTD last week, on a one-suit flop, which worked - eventually (he called my flop pot, but dwell folded top set when I fired the turn), but I nearly had a heart attack, so that'll go back in the "DO NOT USE" file for a while now.
Interesting thread, but newbies to PLO need to tread warily before they start thinking quad aces are playable.
Starting hand ranges are absolutely key in profitable PLO, & newbies should just bin that sort of hand.
Overall though quads aren't going to be that profitable, you are correct - and newbies should just bin them. But like you said, it happens so rarely, that it's not really going to damage a newbie's w/r if he decides to play quad aces. If he knows how to play them, great. If he doesn't, then is most likely making huge errors in other aspects of his game. For example, going broke with AAxx on a J97 board.
Bare quad trick works better too if you have a tight image, so the tighter you play the more playable they become! That's probably why you got away with it
Starting hand ranges in PLO are far more sensitive than in NLH. Play good starting hand ranges, & we are halfway there.
I know exactly what you mean, Steve, I just don't think we should be even discussing the notion on a Forum where we are trying to attract - & keep - new players to PLO.
I don't know how often you are going to be dealt A-A-A-A, (what are the odds, anyone know?) but good luck if you think you can get 2 or 3 folds pre & on a random flop.
It depends how big your dangler is :-))
Ignore your posts? Not guilty, if I'm asked a question, or a topic is raised where I think I can assist, I always reply.