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Teams - Moving forward

2

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  • GELDYGELDY
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : exactly, it's time for you to be quiet, isn't it?  
    Posted by aussie09
    sure, i think i've made my point of view known 
    that some of us disagree with the concept of trial by mob
    regardless of the strength of their argument





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  • aussie09aussie09
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : sure, i think i've made my point of view known  that some of us disagree with the concept of trial by mob regardless of the strength of their argument
    Posted by GELDY

    .... and sleep.




     

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  • mrsduckmrsduck
    edited April 2015
    I'd say most of the "lynch mob" was directed towards Sam & Huft rather than the perps
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  • SlipwaterSlipwater
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    I'd say most of the "lynch mob" was directed towards Sam & Huft rather than the perps
    Posted by mrsduck
    I still have a fatwa on hhytfrthdbdfd's head ;)
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  • GELDYGELDY
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    I'd say most of the "lynch mob" was directed towards Sam & Huft rather than the perps
    Posted by mrsduck


    not here it wasn't - and i certainly didn't use the expression intending that - if that is how it came across due to activity elsewhere i apologise
    it was more directed at newbies posting on sky with a "you must ban for life" approach when they weren't even part of the community

    back to sleep


     
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  • dumb_blonddumb_blond
    edited April 2015
    just a thought and probably off topic but would the team section of the dtds not be better served if the team captains
    had to nominate a maxim of ten players who's finishing positions decided their team's scores.
    when you look at the amount of entries some team have it takes up a vast percentages of the runners making it almost impossible for the smaller teams to win against their mob handed opponents as i'm an indy by choice its just an observation.
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  • samantha25samantha25
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    just a thought and probably off topic but would the team section of the dtds not be better served if the team captains had to nominate a maxim of ten players who's finishing positions decided their team's scores. when you look at the amount of entries some team have it takes up a vast percentages of the runners making it almost impossible for the smaller teams to win against their mob handed opponents as i'm an indy by choice its just an observation.
    Posted by dumb_blond

    Yo DB, well done on yr bink the other night :))

    You make a good point, not sure if anyone would implement it tho and also takes the fun factor away for the non scoring members. TBF, winning it not really an issue for us, more the fun side & if we wanted to we could recruit loads of members that we don't really know to build numbers if that was our goal. It's not about that for some of the smaller teams, I think it's merely the taking part :) just like yourself sweets x

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  • lovelyrachlovelyrach
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : not here it wasn't - and i certainly didn't use the expression intending that - if that is how it came across due to activity elsewhere i apologise it was more directed at newbies posting on sky with a "you must ban for life" approach when they weren't even part of the community back to sleep  
    Posted by GELDY

    I am one of the so called newbies with a " you must ban for life approach" whether you take that in the context of a lynch mob, then so be it. I expressed my sole opinion, just because alot of people have the same opinion does not mean its a lynch mob mentality.
    Now I might not post as much as other people but does that stop me from having an opinion? An unbiased one aswell! I regard cheating as a don't pass go and go straight to jail! 
    As I have stated I think there should be harsher penalties for those who do it, however big or small or whatever circumstances led to it! 
    I don't really care! If you cheated in a casino, you would be arrested so why do people have the opinion that a life ban is all there should be.
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  • 67Bhoys67Bhoys
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    just a thought and probably off topic but would the team section of the dtds not be better served if the team captains had to nominate a maxim of ten players who's finishing positions decided their team's scores. when you look at the amount of entries some team have it takes up a vast percentages of the runners making it almost impossible for the smaller teams to win against their mob handed opponents as i'm an indy by choice its just an observation.
    Posted by dumb_blond
    I'm old enough to remember when there were only 10 players in each team, and TBF it worked out okay.  I think that the DTD is primarily an individual event, but it is nice when your team win any particular week or month, and even better when it's against the odds.

    The teams are about much more than who wins the monthly league, so for me let all join in the DTD, if your team, or yourself as an individual do well (well done on Monday DB), then you can feel on top of the world for a week, taking the plaudits, and maybe getting in a few digs at other teams or players along the way.

    The important thing for me about this whole sorry saga, is the fact that this happened in one of the DTD tournaments.  The guys that organise them, and now the live DTD events, deserve nothing but praise for the tireless work they put in.  I hope that we can all accept whatever decision Sky come to, move on, and get this community back to some kind of harmony.  I'm sure the Monday DTD will be at the forefront when it comes to bringing the community together.
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  • bbMikebbMike
    edited April 2015
    Just catching up over at 2+2

    "Overall a great result for player pressure. I have a feeling the result would have been very different without 2plus2 forum pressure."

    Hear, hear.
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  • samantha25samantha25
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    Just catching up over at 2+2 " Overall a great result for player pressure. I have a feeling the result would have been very different without 2plus2 forum pressure." Hear, hear.
    Posted by bbMike

    yes mike, we should all just turn a blind eye and let this happen... hear, hear... sigh.
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  • 67Bhoys67Bhoys
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : yes mike, we should all just turn a blind eye and let this happen... hear, hear... sigh.
    Posted by samantha25
    Sweety, did you read my post about harmony??
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  • samantha25samantha25
    edited April 2015
    sorry, I'm not very good when goaded... I shall be a good girl now Craig :)
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  • 67Bhoys67Bhoys
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    sorry, I'm not very good when goaded... I shall be a good girl now Craig :)
    Posted by samantha25
    Aye right!!
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  • bbMikebbMike
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : yes mike, we should all just turn a blind eye and let this happen... hear, hear... sigh.
    Posted by samantha25
    I wasn't promoting that as an option. A fair trial, with matters of fact stated in their correct context would have be fine. If the outcome proved to be the same then fine. Guess we'll never know. I like facts. I don't like people carving out passages of text to fool a reader, which was absolutely rife on the 2+2 thread. It's unnecessary. Still, got them all their desired outcome. 
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  • susansuesusansue
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : I wasn't promoting that as an option. A fair trial, with matters of fact stated in their correct context would have be fine. If the outcome proved to be the same then fine. Guess we'll never know. I like facts. I don't like people carving out passages of text to fool a reader, which was absolutely rife on the 2+2 thread. It's unnecessary. Still, got them all their desired outcome. 
    Posted by bbMike

    LOL Mike you and Geldy should team up and form a cell 
    A brain cell would be quiet the achievement .

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  • Sky_PokerSky_Poker
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : I wasn't promoting that as an option. A fair trial, with matters of fact stated in their correct context would have be fine. If the outcome proved to be the same then fine. Guess we'll never know. I like facts. I don't like people carving out passages of text to fool a reader, which was absolutely rife on the 2+2 thread. It's unnecessary. Still, got them all their desired outcome. 
    Posted by bbMike
    Hi bbMike - you'll be pleased to know that we reach our conclusions on our own information, processes and investigations. Opinions on forums external to Sky Poker don't alter this. The only desired outcome we want is the correct one for Sky Poker and its players.

    Thanks
    Sky Poker
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  • paige55paige55
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : Yo DB, well done on yr bink the other night :)) You make a good point, not sure if anyone would implement it tho and also takes the fun factor away for the non scoring members. TBF, winning it not really an issue for us, more the fun side & if we wanted to we could recruit loads of members that we don't really know to build numbers if that was our goal. It's not about that for some of the smaller teams, I think it's merely the taking part :) just like yourself sweets x
    Posted by samantha25
    jelly babies for me thanks
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  • paige55paige55
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    so many things I want to say to that, but alas... I'm on a warning ;)
    Posted by samantha25
    i am not on a warning yet but i may soon
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  • Phantom66Phantom66
    edited April 2015
    Ok so back to my OP....

    My intention was to have a constructive debate about whether anything should change.

    I am not against Teams, I probably would be in one myself if I knew I would have enough time to having a go at Team events. 

    However, the problems with Teams are not just restricted to one case of collusion.

    On collusion, for me there are no grey areas, collusion is cheating and cheats deserve whatever comes their way by way of punishment. 

    For some balance here, they also should be dealt with through the proper channels.

    The whole sorry saga of accusations, confessions and pleas of mitigating circumstances, withdrawals of confessions, character assassinations of the "accused" and "accusers"  was very unseemly. I only posted once in all of that mess just asking for it to be dealt with through the proper channels. At least the threads on here were moderated, I think the 2+2 thread way over stepped the mark. 

    The length of time it took to deal with it didn't help - but sometimes time is needed to gather all evidence and make a correct judgement. If you take drug cheating in sport, there is a process - some evidence = immmediate suspension, further corroborative evidence and a hearing is made before judgement. In that case there is a naming of the accused on suspension and everyone knows that the matter will be dealt with. 

    Perhaps some lessons could be learned here on the handling of collusion, some formality and transparency in the process from Sky and some restraint from the community until the matter is dealt with.

    Let's face it though, it's not the first time an arguement has spilled out all across the forum with a Team issue at the centre of it and most didnt have something as serious as cheating at the core. So no, I am not tainting teams because of one case of 2 cheats. The general atmosphere around Teams can and has, more than once, become corrosive and that helps no-one.

    So to the moving forward bit...

    I saw the idea of team events being selected by a captain - not sure I am in favour of that one. Maybe we should cap the overall squad size though?

    The 1 team member per table sounds interesting. Is that doable without making software changes?

    I do appreciate the point that DTD prizes are mostly individual, its a mainstay of the weekly schedule. I just hope it is still there when I reach a point when I can play in it. I have played in the PLO8 league night a few times and enjoyed that. 

    Maybe if there are going to be team based prizes put up by sky, you should have to qualify for a slot in the team prize event- i.e. some sort of loyalty scheme or points based system. If the "team" prize was a sit n go for the top 6 performers in the month in the winning team, or only for those that played in a minimum number of events, instead of the whole squad regardless of who played, would that help.

    Should there be a set of "team play ethics" - Should everyone just be out to win for themselves first and foremost and leave the support of team mates for the rail and the tallying of points at the end. If you are 2v1 on a FT and the 2 team mates avoid clashes with each other is that right, even if the stack sizes and situation dictates that to be wrong individual play.  If a teammate shoves the button with 1.1 big blinds and a big blind team mate folds is that collusion or team tactics? I don't know the right answers but maybe the forum should debate it and captains set consistent standards?

    And what about freedom of movement - alot of the recent fallings out seemed to be around poaching/switching. Surely people should be free to play for whoever they want - this isn't a professional sport no-one is contracted. As long as the new captain accepts the new player and the old captain is informed should that be an issue?














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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    Ok so back to my OP.... My intention was to have a constructive debate about whether anything should change. I am not against Teams, I probably would be in one myself if I knew I would have enough time to having a go at Team events.  However, the problems with Teams are not just restricted to one case of collusion. On collusion, for me there are no grey areas, collusion is cheating and cheats deserve whatever comes their way by way of punishment.  For some balance here, they also should be dealt with through the proper channels. The whole sorry saga of accusations, confessions and pleas of mitigating circumstances, withdrawals of confessions, character assassinations of the "accused" and "accusers"  was very unseemly. I only posted once in all of that mess just asking for it to be dealt with through the proper channels. At least the threads on here were moderated, I think the 2+2 thread way over stepped the mark.  The length of time it took to deal with it didn't help - but sometimes time is needed to gather all evidence and make a correct judgement. If you take drug cheating in sport, there is a process - some evidence = immmediate suspension, further corroborative evidence and a hearing is made before judgement. In that case there is a naming of the accused on suspension and everyone knows that the matter will be dealt with.  Perhaps some lessons could be learned here on the handling of collusion, some formality and transparency in the process from Sky and some restraint from the community until the matter is dealt with. Let's face it though, it's not the first time an arguement has spilled out all across the forum with a Team issue at the centre of it and most didnt have something as serious as cheating at the core. So no, I am not tainting teams because of one case of 2 cheats. The general atmosphere around Teams can and has, more than once, become corrosive and that helps no-one. So to the moving forward bit... I saw the idea of team events being selected by a captain - not sure I am in favour of that one. Maybe we should cap the overall squad size though? The 1 team member per table sounds interesting. Is that doable without making software changes? I do appreciate the point that DTD prizes are mostly individual, its a mainstay of the weekly schedule. I just hope it is still there when I reach a point when I can play in it. I have played in the PLO8 league night a few times and enjoyed that.  Maybe if there are going to be team based prizes put up by sky, you should have to qualify for a slot in the team prize event- i.e. some sort of loyalty scheme or points based system. If the "team" prize was a sit n go for the top 6 performers in the month in the winning team, or only for those that played in a minimum number of events, instead of the whole squad regardless of who played, would that help. Should there be a set of "team play ethics" - Should everyone just be out to win for themselves first and foremost and leave the support of team mates for the rail and the tallying of points at the end. If you are 2v1 on a FT and the 2 team mates avoid clashes with each other is that right, even if the stack sizes and situation dictates that to be wrong individual play.  If a teammate shoves the button with 1.1 big blinds and a big blind team mate folds is that collusion or team tactics? I don't know the right answers but maybe the forum should debate it and captains set consistent standards? And what about freedom of movement - alot of the recent fallings out seemed to be around poaching/switching. Surely people should be free to play for whoever they want - this isn't a professional sport no-one is contracted. As long as the new captain accepts the new player and the old captain is informed should that be an issue?
    Posted by Phantom66
    Welcome to my world! :)
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  • mrsmarleymrsmarley
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : Hi bbMike - you'll be pleased to know that we reach our conclusions on our own information, processes and investigations. Opinions on forums external to Sky Poker don't alter this. The only desired outcome we want is the correct one for Sky Poker and its players. Thanks Sky Poker
    Posted by Sky_Poker
    There you go bbmike......the players got a fair trial and the evidence was obvious....
    I commend sky for taking an unbiased and even investigation and taking the only course of action available to them.

    All the people trying to stir this up as some sort of blackmail/fake screenshot set up need to get back to reality.
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  • paige55paige55
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    Ok so back to my OP.... My intention was to have a constructive debate about whether anything should change. I am not against Teams, I probably would be in one myself if I knew I would have enough time to having a go at Team events.  However, the problems with Teams are not just restricted to one case of collusion. On collusion, for me there are no grey areas, collusion is cheating and cheats deserve whatever comes their way by way of punishment.  For some balance here, they also should be dealt with through the proper channels. The whole sorry saga of accusations, confessions and pleas of mitigating circumstances, withdrawals of confessions, character assassinations of the "accused" and "accusers"  was very unseemly. I only posted once in all of that mess just asking for it to be dealt with through the proper channels. At least the threads on here were moderated, I think the 2+2 thread way over stepped the mark.  The length of time it took to deal with it didn't help - but sometimes time is needed to gather all evidence and make a correct judgement. If you take drug cheating in sport, there is a process - some evidence = immmediate suspension, further corroborative evidence and a hearing is made before judgement. In that case there is a naming of the accused on suspension and everyone knows that the matter will be dealt with.  Perhaps some lessons could be learned here on the handling of collusion, some formality and transparency in the process from Sky and some restraint from the community until the matter is dealt with. Let's face it though, it's not the first time an arguement has spilled out all across the forum with a Team issue at the centre of it and most didnt have something as serious as cheating at the core. So no, I am not tainting teams because of one case of 2 cheats. The general atmosphere around Teams can and has, more than once, become corrosive and that helps no-one. So to the moving forward bit... I saw the idea of team events being selected by a captain - not sure I am in favour of that one. Maybe we should cap the overall squad size though? The 1 team member per table sounds interesting. Is that doable without making software changes? I do appreciate the point that DTD prizes are mostly individual, its a mainstay of the weekly schedule. I just hope it is still there when I reach a point when I can play in it. I have played in the PLO8 league night a few times and enjoyed that.  Maybe if there are going to be team based prizes put up by sky, you should have to qualify for a slot in the team prize event- i.e. some sort of loyalty scheme or points based system. If the "team" prize was a sit n go for the top 6 performers in the month in the winning team, or only for those that played in a minimum number of events, instead of the whole squad regardless of who played, would that help. Should there be a set of "team play ethics" - Should everyone just be out to win for themselves first and foremost and leave the support of team mates for the rail and the tallying of points at the end. If you are 2v1 on a FT and the 2 team mates avoid clashes with each other is that right, even if the stack sizes and situation dictates that to be wrong individual play.  If a teammate shoves the button with 1.1 big blinds and a big blind team mate folds is that collusion or team tactics? I don't know the right answers but maybe the forum should debate it and captains set consistent standards? And what about freedom of movement - alot of the recent fallings out seemed to be around poaching/switching. Surely people should be free to play for whoever they want - this isn't a professional sport no-one is contracted. As long as the new captain accepts the new player and the old captain is informed should that be an issue?
    Posted by Phantom66
    i may have played twice for a team i never had enough money in my account to carry on playing, so i loved to rail and never once did i see anything wrong,from any team in the chat box since the dtd started
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  • bbMikebbMike
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : There you go bbmike......the players got a fair trial and the evidence was obvious.... I commend sky for taking an unbiased and even investigation and taking the only course of action available to them. All the people trying to stir this up as some sort of blackmail/fake screenshot set up need to get back to reality.
    Posted by mrsmarley
    Many thanks mrsmarley.  Sky Poker didn't actually say the evidence was obvious, but I appreciate your input.  I have to trust that Sky Poker have been given full and correct information throughout their investigation, and have reached the right conclusion and assigned punishments that fit the crimes.  It's certainly an interesting case, and once again the social media boards are bouncing, mainly due to people jumping up and down with joy.

    No doubt going forwards we'll all move on.  Just like many other colluders and multiaccounters have done on this site.
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  • Ice_TigerIce_Tiger
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : I am one of the so called newbies with a " you must ban for life approach" whether you take that in the context of a lynch mob, then so be it. I expressed my sole opinion, just because alot of people have the same opinion does not mean its a lynch mob mentality. Now I might not post as much as other people but does that stop me from having an opinion? An unbiased one aswell! I regard cheating as a don't pass go and go straight to jail!  As I have stated I think there should be harsher penalties for those who do it, however big or small or whatever circumstances led to it!  I don't really care! If you cheated in a casino, you would be arrested so why do people have the opinion that a life ban is all there should be.
    Posted by lovelyrach
    Oh if that were true.

    I know of one player at my local casino (part of national chain) who has been caught cheating twice (stealing chips from other players stacks) and each time he was back playing a week later with no penalty & no police involvement despite CCTV evidence of his crimes.
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  • SlipwaterSlipwater
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : Oh if that were true. I know of one player at my local casino (part of national chain) who has been caught cheating twice (stealing chips from other players stacks) and each time he was back playing a week later with no penalty & no police involvement despite CCTV evidence of his crimes.
    Posted by Ice_Tiger
    Yeah, it's rare the police get involved.

    Can't believe the audacity of the guy to take chips directly from someone else's stack though!
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : Yeah, it's rare the police get involved. Can't believe the audacity of the guy to take chips directly from someone else's stack though!
    Posted by Slipwater
    Especially if he was unemployed.
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  • SlipwaterSlipwater
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : Especially if he was unemployed.
    Posted by hhyftrftdr
    Absolutely.
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  • samantha25samantha25
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : Aye right!!
    Posted by 67Bhoys

    meh, gutted you can't come... can't stop me being bad live :)
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  • GELDYGELDY
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward:
    In Response to Re: Teams - Moving forward : Yeah, it's rare the police get involved. Can't believe the audacity of the guy to take chips directly from someone else's stack though!
    Posted by Slipwater
    i always count my stack at breaks

    and i know players who are very abusive that are never banned for more than a week. The mitigating factor is the size of their tips. 
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