PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome.

VespaPX

In Response to Re: PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome.:

i'll add my 2 cents. firstly, the PLO 5.5 and PL08 5.5 nightly are short tournaments. one person has already commented that he cant be bothered to play 2 x 5.5 with small prize pools. I don't see why. a 100% win rate is the same regardless of the total prize pool. if you increase the guarantees, whose going to turn up? personally, giving the PL08 crowd more of what they want cant be bad, if they know? knowone wants to play more PL08 on thurs eve, I asked that question the other day and got one reply and they didn't want any more games (on thurs eve) add a few more PL08 games around the sunday league 3.3 could be a good idea as they're already players coming for that. a monthly flagship PLO/PL08 tourney would be good. I don't see want the point with the BH format would be. plys go after each other anyway, they don't need encouraging (do you really want to be flipping every 10 hands or so?) NL08 and NL08 BH formats are ridiculous, edges are less, flips more often=more losing to the rake, which is the primary reason knowone plays PLO/PL08 SNGs />£11, the skill difference is less than the rake (unless TK is playing!). I like the idea that small sattelites (not AIPF ones) could lead to a flagship event, and the league winners of say 2.2-5.5 weekly Ts could win entry.
Posted by suzy666

LIKE +1

Phantom66

Community PLO8 MTT anyone? £1 tourney starting at 14:55 Late reg for 30 mins

rancid

If your trying to entice 2 card players then entice with just PLO and BH.

Also don't make em go on for more than 3 hours.

1 rebuy 1addon but no longer than 4 hours

Not going to entice anyone with 5-6 hours of PLO8

aussie09

this is very much like cricket.

5 day boring traditional county matches where nobody goes to watch, or one day, or 20-20 matches where lots of people go and watch. 

plo low stakes, deep stack, slow structure is like the former where the players have probably prepared their egg sandwiches in tin foil and have their tartan blanket over their knees ready for 40 winks.  whereas the latter is the new breed, who turn up after work still in a suit for a glass of wine and a prawn sandwich, dancing to the music accompanying every six whilst others splash around in a paddling pool.

do traditional plo players want these new people?  probably not.




 

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome.:

this is very much like cricket. 4 day gripping traditional county matches where nobody goes to watch, but doh is hooked to the BBC online commentry to see if YCCC fade the follow on v Warwks or one day, or 20-20 matches where lots of people go and watch. 
Posted by aussie09

edited yp  

----

agree though, don't take an action game like PLO and make it a boring nut pedal snoozeathon. 

PS, we got thereee 

67Bhoys

In Response to Re: PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome.:

this is very much like cricket. 5 day boring traditional county matches where nobody goes to watch, or one day, or 20-20 matches where lots of people go and watch.  plo low stakes, deep stack, slow structure is like the former where the players have probably prepared their egg sandwiches in tin foil and have their tartan blanket over their knees ready for 40 winks.  whereas the latter is the new breed, who turn up after work still in a suit for a glass of wine and a prawn sandwich, dancing to the music accompanying every six whilst others splash around in a paddling pool. do traditional plo players want these new people?  probably not.  
Posted by aussie09

Have you got hidden cameras in my house Rob?

aussie09

In Response to Re: PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome.:

In Response to Re: PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome. : Have you got hidden cameras in my house Rob?
Posted by 67Bhoys

ah god, yes.  

i have been watching you for hours. 

i thought it was babestation.  but with moobs and speedos.



 

LmfaoAllin

LOL

suzy666

In Response to Re: PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome.:

If your trying to entice 2 card players then entice with just PLO and BH. Also don't make em go on for more than 3 hours. 1 rebuy 1addon but no longer than 4 hours Not going to entice anyone with 5-6 hours of PLO8
Posted by rancid

'Not going to entice anyone with 5-6 hours of PLO8' fair point!
however with the thurs eve and sun league, maybe with a bigger Tournament, plys would come from other sites to play, esp for added value free seats.

Is there any point at all getting sky NLHM plys playing PLO, don't sky want new customers?
sorry but ' 1 rebuy, 1addon but no longer than 4 hours', Is that possible? ( ca 1500 chips, 10 min blinds, 20 players only)

I do agree that a low stakes PLO BH would get NL plys trying something new

Ranners

In Response to Re: PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome.:

i'll add my 2 cents. firstly, the PLO 5.5 and PL08 5.5 nightly are short tournaments. one person has already commented that he cant be bothered to play 2 x 5.5 with small prize pools. I don't see why. a 100% win rate is the same regardless of the total prize pool.
Posted by suzy666

The reason is that I'd rather play a different tournament with more players, which necessarily means Holdem. If the PLO8 tournaments had more players (or a higher buy-in) I'd drop a Holdem tournament. I'm sure I'm not the only player who feels that way and who doesn't want to spend a few hours trying to win £30. I could win it a couple of times a week but still get less than a decent FT in another tourney. 

I entirely disagree with you about NLO8 BH. Very popular elsewhere as I've said and really there is no reason to be flipping as often as you say. It's a different game than PLO8 but it doesn't mean the skill difference is less. 

I think giving the PLO8 community here more of what they want won't help grow the game beyond the current levels. This is only my opinion, but I'm not interested in PLO8 DYMs or in playing small stakes leagues but would play, as often as I could, some tourneys with buyins of £11+. 

Getting more players involved means creating tournaments that appeal to current (Holdem) tournament players.

HENDRIK62

In Response to Re: PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome.:

In Response to Re: PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome. : ah god, yes.   i have been watching you for hours.  i thought it was babestation.  but with moobs and speedos.  
Posted by aussie09

You definitely do have a cam in there, after rooming with Bhoys in Newcastle I can confirm both dercriptions are accurate.....;-)

splashies

PLO BH is a winner for me.

ajmilton

Micro stakes =£1

Ok so here's my 2 quid's worth on the micro schedule.

These tourney's are the most popular (get the most players )

Yet there are only 2 MTT's of a night starting at 19.50pm

and then at 21.20pm.

 

If you want to play an earlier tourney

you have to rewind all the way back to 14.55pm.

Nothing in-between for a £1. 

I would like and I'm sure many other's would,

like to see a micro tourney at around 18.00pm

I mean 7 hours between tourney's, 

is a bit of a wait especially on the weekend 

Now surely there is room for that in the micro schedule.

Regards Alan (frustrated plo8 champ)

gerardirl

Didnt read all the posts so apologies is this was already suggested.

I would love a dym tournament, where top 3 in each table progress to round 2 where again top 3 progress and so on until we reach a final table. Im pretty sure this wont be popular but its my wish as I personally have no interest in playing the standard tournaments.....then again im sure im alone in this

Just giving my two pence worth though!

Ger

gerardirl

I like Hendriks suggestion, mixing the 3 games in a tournament! Dont think this is popular on other sites though but who knows! 

Wacko90

I mentioned PLO/PLO8 BHS on another suggestion thread before and took some stick (probably deserved) but really do think it would entice new players into the game and give regs something a bit different to chew on.

BI, structure, frequency and deciding between plo/plo8 are all difficult things to gauge though. BI wise a weekly bigger BI would work just fine, the most obvious choice of day would of course be Sunday and it shouldn't affect NLH numbers at all. £22-33 BI should do just fine, I feel like 55 would be pushing it a little bit this early on and daily numbers of £5-11 with a rebuy in a couple for sure.

Structure too is difficult and you could never please everyone with this. Personally I would like a decent structure, 3k starting and 10-12 min blinds, many don't have a problem playing 5+ hours but I think turbos would be a little more popular with a decent GTEE.

Perhaps it may be possible to cater for everyone on different days; one night run turbos, next night deeper structures, next night a BHs etc and see which format fares best. Surely the only way to know what will be most popular is to put the different formats into the lobby and see which ones fare the best.

Sky know that BHs are by far the most popular MTTs on the site. If they're wanting to promote PLO/PLO8 then it seems only logical to try them in this format (as well as/alongside standard formats) as it will inevitably draw new players who have never dabbled in omaha before (which sky want) and cater somewhat for existing players who love omaha.

Also, as Tikay mentioned PLO8 has a bigger following on sky than PLO so would it be logical to promote PLO8 games more than PLO as it is clearly in demand more than PLO or would it be better to push PLO games as there is perhaps a bigger scope to attract new players? Suppose sky can decide on that but my gut tells me PLO8 has the potential to grow far more than standard PLO and this should show in the future changes.

Either way good to see sky wanting to promote these games, sky have a great chance to gain a really good PLO/8 player base if they get this right.

Those who have never dabbled in Omaha you don't know what you're missing

LmfaoAllin

In Response to Re: PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome.:

I mentioned PLO/PLO8 BHS on another suggestion thread before and took some stick (probably deserved) but really do think it would entice new players into the game and give regs something a bit different to chew on. BI, structure, frequency and deciding between plo/plo8 are all difficult things to gauge though. BI wise a weekly bigger BI would work just fine, the most obvious choice of day would of course be Sunday and it shouldn't affect NLH numbers at all. £22-33 BI should do just fine, I feel like 55 would be pushing it a little bit this early on and daily numbers of £5-11 with a rebuy in a couple for sure. Structure too is difficult and you could never please everyone with this. Personally I would like a decent structure, 3k starting and 10-12 min blinds, many don't have a problem playing 5+ hours but I think turbos would be a little more popular with a decent GTEE. Perhaps it may be possible to cater for everyone on different days; one night run turbos, next night deeper structures, next night a BHs etc and see which format fares best. Surely the only way to know what will be most popular is to put the different formats into the lobby and see which ones fare the best. Sky know that BHs are by far the most popular MTTs on the site. If they're wanting to promote PLO/PLO8 then it seems only logical to try them in this format (as well as/alongside standard formats) as it will inevitably draw new players who have never dabbled in omaha before (which sky want) and cater somewhat for existing players who love omaha. Also, as Tikay mentioned PLO8 has a bigger following on sky than PLO so would it be logical to promote PLO8 games more than PLO as it is clearly in demand more than PLO or would it be better to push PLO games as there is perhaps a bigger scope to attract new players? Suppose sky can decide on that but my gut tells me PLO8 has the potential to grow far more than standard PLO and this should show in the future changes. Either way good to see sky wanting to promote these games, sky have a great chance to gain a really good PLO/8 player base if they get this right. Those who have never dabbled in Omaha you don't know what you're missing
Posted by Wacko90

Big +1. very well put.

ps love the new hair do ; )

churchy18

Think this thread from a few month's back has some good ideas in it.

https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat:57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum:df77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion:fb5801d8-17eb-4c52-9068-6fbd952c128e

Would like too see a decent gtd event on sky but how will it work the majority of plo8 players are small stakes players who play primarily for fun a laugh and chat and the majority will not be willing too pay more than £11. 

The majority of people who play these games day in day out will not enter the £100 gtd game which runs every night and misses its gtd quite often and that's only a £5.50 buy in so if we struggle too get 20 people too play a £5.50 game where will the numbers come from for a £11/£22 buy in event?

Even the £2.20 £150gtd fosp game on a Thursday night gets no where near its gtd pretty much missing by 20/25 players on a weekly basis and when the league started this had a £200gtd for £2.20 and think the most it got was 70ish so is there really the numbers there for a big event?

Think the only way it could work is having a once a month re/entry event with say £1000gtd £11 buy in and 1 re/entry run ticket only sats(no cash alternative)that way only people who want too play the event will play the satellites but have the sats as plo8 bit pointless having holdem sats for a plo8 target event.

Also why not get the games promoted more on facebook twitter! why not promote community nights/events on these platforms it costs nothing and im pretty sure posting up nights like dtd .Friday Orfordable League and the plo8 night would attract even more people and it is FREE as sky already pay the staff costs so this could be a way of making more use of these platforms in trying too promote the site/games that are on offer.

All the best brian

F_Ivanovic

The £5.50 struggles to get runners I imagine because the prize pool is so small.

I suggested £11 BH because it's small enough that micro players could play once per week but at the same time just about big enough for MTT grinders on this site to add to their schedule as long as the GTD is big enough. £1k GTD BH PLO once per week. The BH element also means it's less variace and small stakes players get a chance to get some of their stake back even if they don't cash.

Slipwater

In Response to Re: PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome.:

The £5.50 struggles to get runners I imagine because the prize pool is so small. I suggested £11 BH because it's small enough that micro players could play once per week but at the same time just about big enough for MTT grinders on this site to add to their schedule as long as the GTD is big enough. £1k GTD BH PLO once per week. The BH element also means it's less variace and small stakes players get a chance to get some of their stake back even if they don't cash.
Posted by F_Ivanovic

I would play that.

shakinaces

Going marginally off-topic, is there any appetite to look at boosting cash PLO8 traffic as a means to get more PLO8 played on the site (and by extension, hopefully more people playing PLO8 MTTs)?

I won't beat around the bush, if there could be some way of lowering rake (specifically on split pots) in those games surely it would help set Sky apart from the crowd and could be a filip to boost numbers and increase people's interest in the game?

Ice_Tiger

As I see it, PLO & PLO8 are in their infancy on SKY. In this situation, it is like a pyramid, the lowest level has the most players with each ascending level having a few less. So on a Thursday night (forgive me these figures are examples, not actuals), the £1 games get 80 players, the £2 game gets 50 players & the £5 game gets 30 players.

This is a good foundation. I think it is fair to assume that nearly all of the £5 players play the £2 game and nearly all the £2 players play the £1 game. 

The next question is do we want to build the pyramind high or wide? The second question (assuming the answer to the first is BOTH), which do we do first?

Do we want to attract more players in at the base level to expand numbers or do we want to encourage the existing customer base to move up the levels.

To attract more players in is pure promotion. The PLO8 tournament structure is reasonable at the moment although a £1 or £2 at around 6.00 -6.30 is an obvious omission. The solution is more marketing internally & externally.

I think the next step upwards would be a PLO8 rebuy, probably at £5 with a £250 guarantee. Maybe this could be trialed on a particular night with a view to rolling it out across other nights. The next would be a £10 FO. These tournaments do well on iPoker but they have regulars that just play these two tournaments. On SKY, we probably have more PLO8 players but a lot of beginners that play mostly at £1 level. In a year or so, these players may step up to £2 level but it is important to keep adding at the bottom level.

The Thursday night PLO8 is great & the timings are perfect.

Just pick up a couple of posters that refered to 4 hour tournaments. I have played a lot of PLO8 on SKY and never played a 4 hour tournament yet. Most are done in two hours tops.

Obviously for AJMilton, they are done in 20 minutes tops.

suzy666

In Response to Re: PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome.:

Going marginally off-topic, is there any appetite to look at boosting cash PLO8 traffic as a means to get more PLO8 played on the site (and by extension, hopefully more people playing PLO8 MTTs)? I won't beat around the bush, if there could be some way of lowering rake (specifically on split pots) in those games surely it would help set Sky apart from the crowd and could be a filip to boost numbers and increase people's interest in the game?
Posted by shakinaces

i suggested this to sky ages ago.
sky could become a market leader by lowering rake on SNGs. why when a 3.30 with 30p rake, does a £22 need £2!
pl08 CASH is UNPLAYABLE unless against real droolers, and they tend to leave after losing 1 let alone 2-3 or more buyins.

In reply to Ivan, why do MTT players think big Ts are better?
if you play smaller (in number of players), each T takes less time, and your varience is much lower.
your effective win rate is the same (or higher if all the 'good' plys are elsewhere, so for eg: 25% of £20 is the same regardless of whether 1st wins £200 or £2000, but you'll get more 1sts and more final tables in the former.

suzy666

btw, I'm not against a £11 NL08 BH, I'd give it a go.

aussie09

like cricket mentioned earlier, if you leave the future of the sport in the hands of those who want things to stay as they are, but urge that we do more of the same, the result will be more of the same.  if you give responsibility for deciding the future of the sport to someone else, you will get something else.

it seems to me that there are two groups of people here.  its a debate between those with egg sandwiches in tin foil and those with prawn sandwiches and wine.

i think that the current schedule is unattractive and doesn't lure, inspire, reward, excite the new people that we seek.

egg or prawn?



 

rancid

@suzy

Depends what you want to acheieve

If you want people to play who have not played before then they should start with PLO and short structures

If you know the game then maybe you want 10 hour MTT

As for enticing other players to come and play PLO on Sky - I think Sky would struggle with gtd's

Sky poker base is BH so kinda makes sense to go down that route

FCHD

I find basic PLO about as dull as watching cricket (elsewhere, I much prefer NLO), but really like PLO8. I can't see it ever becoming much more than a niche game here on Sky though.

VespaPX

I think the majority of PLO8 players at the moment are low/micro stakes, and are quite happy to stay that way.
I would quess only a few would be happy playing bigger buy-in MTT's unless there were Sats into them.
Not sure about PLO as there seems hardly any playing at the moment.

We need something to lure new players either from Holdem or new to the site.

*Edit
PLO8 & PLO Freerolls for new sign-ups?

HENDRIK62

In Response to Re: PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome.:

As I see it, PLO & PLO8 are in their infancy on SKY. In this situation, it is like a pyramid, the lowest level has the most players with each ascending level having a few less. So on a Thursday night (forgive me these figures are examples, not actuals), the £1 games get 80 players, the £2 game gets 50 players & the £5 game gets 30 players. This is a good foundation. I think it is fair to assume that nearly all of the £5 players play the £2 game and nearly all the £2 players play the £1 game.  The next question is do we want to build the pyramind high or wide? The second question (assuming the answer to the first is BOTH), which do we do first? Do we want to attract more players in at the base level to expand numbers or do we want to encourage the existing customer base to move up the levels. To attract more players in is pure promotion. The PLO8 tournament structure is reasonable at the moment although a £1 or £2 at around 6.00 -6.30 is an obvious omission. The solution is more marketing internally & externally. I think the next step upwards would be a PLO8 rebuy, probably at £5 with a £250 guarantee. Maybe this could be trialed on a particular night with a view to rolling it out across other nights. The next would be a £10 FO. These tournaments do well on iPoker but they have regulars that just play these two tournaments. On SKY, we probably have more PLO8 players but a lot of beginners that play mostly at £1 level. In a year or so, these players may step up to £2 level but it is important to keep adding at the bottom level. The Thursday night PLO8 is great & the timings are perfect. Just pick up a couple of posters that refered to 4 hour tournaments. I have played a lot of PLO8 on SKY and never played a 4 hour tournament yet. Most are done in two hours tops. Obviously for AJMilton, they are done in 20 minutes tops.

Posted by Ice_Tiger

very constructive post some very good points Mr Ice T

 Obviously it would be nice if we had some sort of structure that would help players like AJ stay in longer and enjoy their evenings more.......unlimited re-buys perhaps ;-))))

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome.:

In Response to Re: PLO & PLO8 MTT's - suggestions welcome. :  In reply to Ivan, why do MTT players think big Ts are better? if you play smaller (in number of players), each T takes less time, and your varience is much lower. your effective win rate is the same (or higher if all the 'good' plys are elsewhere, so for eg: 25% of £20 is the same regardless of whether 1st wins £200 or £2000, but you'll get more 1sts and more final tables in the former.
Posted by suzy666

The time taken to complete a smaller sized tournament is not proportional to the time taken to complete a bigger tournament. It might take 2 hours to win £200 as opposed to 4 hours to win £2000. It would have to take 20 hours to win £2000 for each tournament to be worth the same in terms of time spent & money won.

Aside from this, larger fields are just more fun to MTT players - you get all of the different stages of the tournament wheras with a smaller field tournament feels more like a sit and go. As such, it requires different skills to navigate as opposed to a larger field.

Also to note is that with smaller tournaments + lesser prizepool, recreational players play less "scared" - they don't just try to hang on for the bubble since the bubble is usually the final table. The beauty of bigger MTT's is good players can profit immensely from on/nearing the bubble as well as before the FT where recreationals are so desperate not to go out before the FT of a big tournament.