MASTER CASH - Make Your Play!

Tikay10

Good day to you all.

Today's MYP is a bit different - we don't even see a Flop - but it's actually quite a tricky one.

As usual, there's no real right or wrong, but what's more important, is WHAT you do, & WHY.

Feel free either to reply on Thread, or e-Mail into the Show. We can only read fairly brief e-Mails on the Show, though. Usual e-addy, which is skyopen@bskyb.com

Oh, & PLEASE use the Voting Option.

Right, the hand itself is coming right up......

Tikay10

MP (£81) is a 3-bet short-stacker.

BB (£169.75) went to showdown 57% over 40 hands.

Hero (£200.55) is TAG.

Game is 6 handed, £1 £2.

Pre-Flop.

Hero is UTG with Jd-Jh

Hero Makes it £8 to go.

MP Raises to £16

It's folded round to......

BB, who now Raises to £32!

So, with his Jacks not looking quite so pretty, what does Hero do next?

VOTE please. And DISCUSS.

Thanks.

DOHHHHHHH

My initial reaction is to flat, knowing that there's a good chance (from the description) that the short stack is gonna jam, then we have the BB in a position where he is being asked to call half his stack, but knowing we are still to act behind him with a big stack too. 

The short stacks, stack isn't an insignificant amount, but playing below 50% of the buy in, he can't really hurt me, so my focus is on this guy who cant seem to fold. If I have aces here, Im flatting for sure, as theres a great chance of further action behind me.

The jacks It would all depend on the feel for the hand I had, but as an outsider looking in, I again probably flat call here, knowing the short stack may well shove, and then we have position on the BB to analyse his next move (thats position for any further action pre flop, and the action, if there is any, on the flop). 

The shortie being inbetween me n the BB is a big advantage here in my mind - (BB cud be squeezing)

DOHH

Dozza

BB's raise of just another £16 on top of the £16 MP has already put in the middle suggests to me BB wants at least one caller to extract maximum value for the aces he/she most likely has. im putting BB on at least kings in this spot so i fold the hooks.

TommyD

I fold, but I'm also pretty sure I'm folding the best hand.

We have two loosey gooseys here.  The short stack will jam all in or call all in with any two broadway cards as well as all pairs above jacks.  A short stacker will fold pairs below nines and the vast amount of his range has us either racing or crushed.  The BB is even worse, he's got his fingers glued to the call button over the sample given.  He will call even thinner.  There is a high likelihood that between them the villains have the A,K & Q covered.  Would you be confident of definitely hitting a set or having no over cards in five to the jacks.  I'm sure not.

The call can be discarded as the betting is not closed, the short stack will jam to a call which opens up the BB betting his stack.  Possibly a raise that will make the short stack's jam an 'under-raise' freezing the BB to a call may be an option but with nearly half of our stack in the middle we are very close to being pot stuck.  As described above, I don't think this spot against two opponents who I believe will both call is good enough to risk the lot.

That just leaves the fold, sometimes you should fold the better hand.

dylan12

For me there is only 2 moves here, All in or fold. I personally would fold and find a better spot. It could be quite likely that Hero has the best hand pre flop but with the BB being a calling machine there is no point in my opinion to flat call because any bet hero makes after the flop is likely to be called by the BB therefore you will be unable to define your hand. Only reason I would consider the All in is to put my oppononts to the test but with them being pretty loose would I want to put my money at risk? No. Therefore fold in my opinion is the correct strategy.

DOHHHHHHH

I seem to be getting battered here by 2 players I have alot of respect for, in Dylan and Tommy, maybe my play is influenced by the way guys fire bak at me light. But still, the more I look at it, the more I like the call!

haha!

Looking forward to seeing at least 1 person agree with me! Cmon chaps!

DOHH

dylan12

In Response to Re: MASTER CASH - Make Your Play!:

I seem to be getting battered here by 2 players I have alot of respect for, in Dylan and Tommy, maybe my play is influenced by the way guys fire bak at me light. But still, the more I look at it, the more I like the call! haha! Looking forward to seeing at least 1 person agree with me! Cmon chaps! DOHH
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Dohhhhhhh my friend, you are one of a kind lol, Its nice to see that you would just call in this situation, we are all different and I for one would not slate your play in this circumstance, would you not be tempted to re raise though mate? Actually I don't even think you would call here, you would no doubt have a rush of aggression and push all in ha ha!! That is the dohhhhhhh we all love

Tikay10

Later today, I'll reveal what Mr Station, the BB had, & what MP had, too.

It's a most peculiar hand.

2 of the answers so far are spectacularly perceptive.

And Doh, don't start being influenced by what others say. You play by "gut instinct", so stick with it.

DOHHHHHHH

Well yeh I can rule out shoving Im just gonna get called by a better hand and fold out weaker hands.

I call, the SB tanks, the BB folds, I snap call.

I call, the SB tanks, The BB shoves, NOW folding is an option - not saying it's what i'd do....

I call, SB folds, I play a flop with this guy, (who has gone to the river 57% of the time) in position!

Im an aggro player in general, sometimes it's not the worst thing to just let the guy come to me.

Im rarely rash pre flop. I'm aggressive, raise n re raise pre flop out of most positions with alot of different hands, for many different reasons.  I don't like shoving 200 quid in with only 8 invested....

If the options were Jam or fold, Id fold - However to make a significant raise, Its gunna have to be half my stack, which commits me to call any re raise as Im likely to be getting huge odds including the shortie. 

For that reason, I dnt see anything wrong with the call, let them come to me. I dnt look at the money involved as money, its a percentage of a buy in. Yeh its alot of money but shudn't influence the decision. 

Guna be interesting follwing this all day.

DOHH

dylan12

Good reasoning for the call mate, I can understand why you would do just that. That is why poker is great, we all play situations differently, as long as you have reasoning behind your play then it can't be knocked!! Im the same mate, im interested to see how this one pans out

Tikay10

So, as of now, according to the Voting, the "Folds" have it, 5-0-0-0.

Must be a Fold, then.

Tikay10

Correction, another Vote in, we have a lone "shove". 5-0-0-1.

DOHHHHHHH

OOps forgot to vote, there I am! A sole man!!! 

zing

dohhh a call is so terrible here it's a bit worrying.

I don't usually do these but that reply is mind blowing.

Why on earth would you ever flat here? You've already been told BB "went to showdown 57% over 40 hands."

This is telling you he's a calling station. Calling stations never re raise there with anything weaker than queens (usually kings) because guess what, they are calling stations so they like to see flops with all their pretty hands.

You have a crazy short stack who will most likely shove over £32, he could call, given you flatted the 32 also but he's "3bet crazy" so likely to just shove it in. Yet you think calling the £32 is the best move when in actual fact you will have to call at least £81 PF not knowing where the hell you are vs anyone and praying for a low flop where you're still not good most of the time.

You have £8 invested in the pot why would you put in £170 with JJ in a 3way all in vs villains lines..

This isn't even a hard decision till I get more reads on the station.

Snap fold.

DOHHHHHHH

...So u fold? - Ive already explained what Id do, and exactly why I'd do it, so I don't know why your asking me questions here?

Amazing how people are so quick to put players on aces or kings - How many hand combinations r there?

Ill find out if he has aces or kings when the short stack behind shoves, and the actions back over to him, (already explained). 

Calling station = bad player right? - No info about his pre flop raising history, Just that when he plays he goes all the way. 12% of a buy in to find out.

DOHH

Tikay10

This IS getting interesting. The Voting is now 7-2-0-2.

Not sure when I should reveal the Hands - probably at the top of the Show?

The Thread might just ignite, then......

DOHHHHHHH

Oh r these real life hands? Thought they were always just made up situations? Another caller! wikid! who is it? - Not joemorris is it? I might have to reconsider.....

Tikay10

Miss Posh-Ling tells me that we'll do the "reveal" midway through Master-Cash - so that's about 9pm.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: MASTER CASH - Make Your Play!:

Oh r these real life hands? Thought they were always just made up situations? Another caller! wikid! who is it? - Not joemorris is it? I might have to reconsider.....
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

It's a real-hand, but I "forgot" to include Oppo's hands......

scotty77

With the shortie in the hand its a fold.

dantb10

im undecided what id do here because of the shortie, so i rekon its one where its bet to make let the time bar run down and poss make a bad fold,sigh and move onto the next hand

zing

I'm replying to you as well cause I think your play is that bad. I'm trying to make you realise a huge leak in your game, obviously you don't care so I won't say any more.

DOHHHHHHH

Who are you to analyse my game? Im open to suggestions and opinions, and always willing to discuss hands, but for you to blatantly say there is a leak in my game I think is well out of order.

Come play me.

DOHH

apollo_11

This would be an instant fold for me in this position.
Firstly, I hate playing J's. It is either all in or fold pre-flop depending on the make-up of the table.
If I called, the shortie is going to push with any paint and with the BB a calling station, I would not be in a very good situation with a 50% chance of an overcard on the flop and at least one of the players would have that overcard.
If I fold now at least I have saved some of my cash for a better spot later.

barnsie

dont take it so personally dohhh

fwiw i shove everytime here

a player who gets to showdown 57% is a player i want to get my stack in against his range is massiveeeeeeeeeee here and the shortie is an irelevance imo

GREGHOGG

I think its fine to see a flop here or to make a raise. if i raise to 70 i can still fold to a reshove.

I dont think i am folding, because my jacks could well be the best hand.

Having said the above if im running bad, i snap fold lol!

Tikay10

Voting is now 8-2-1-3........

DOHHHHHHH

Me n u against the world Gregg!!!!

Btw I'm trying to get the other MC table going, wheres TOMMYD when u need him!!

Been sat on my own for an hour I gave up!

DOHH

Tikay10

MasterCash Table 10 is currently 5 handed, & MasterCash Table 9 just has Doh sitting in.

The Show starts, Live, at 8pm, so if you want to be featured, go & bash up Doh - now.

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: MASTER CASH - Make Your Play!:

Me n u against the world Gregg!!!! Btw I'm trying to get the other MC table going, wheres TOMMYD when u need him!! Been sat on my own for an hour I gave up! DOHH
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Might join you in a bit m8