How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish???

jakx85

So how can i stop bad play ben rewarded when the bad hands/play are constantlygetting rewarded... I dont think there would be as much bad play/fish if the site was not always rewarding this kind of play!!! now dont get me wrong people can play how thy want (they pay to play) at the end of the day but how can you avoid losing the what really is the best hand when you are getting turned over time and time again by horrible hands hitting with the worst boards??? This is the thing i dont understand how can i be done by so many bad hands and see it constantly, it really doesn't make any sense at all. However i would understand if i was to see it on every site and in live play, but thats the thing i dont i just see it constantly on this site.... Soooo please if anyone has any advice for me that would be great as i really do love this site im just finding hard been pretty much at the losing end when i really dont think my poker is that bad.... many thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this and for any help/advice that maybe given.. 

Tikay10

Hi Jakx,

I understand your frustration, & bad hands do sometimes get rewarded, but not, as you state "always".

In the long term, 7-2 will beat Aces about 1 time in 12, and Aces will be beaten by an underpair about 1 time in 5. It's maths, no more, no less. It HAS to happen.

So most of the time, we win with the better hand. Not all though, that's the whole point & attraction of poker. The best hand cannot & does not always win. Read a few of the MTT Diaries here, you'll see that every day.

"I would have had a Final Table stack if my AK had not been outdrawn".... 

Remember one thing when it happens - you WANT these guys to call. You DO.  They'll win 1 time in 5, you'll win 4 times in 5. What's not to like?

And no, it happens on EVERY poker site, & also Live. It's the great fascination of poker. Embrace it, or it will drive you nuts. Nothing in poker is more telling than Variance. But it's a true friend to the better players. 

Best not suggest you play PLO though - we are allowed to "fish" in that, it's the whole idea of the game, "made hand" rarely hold, & the outdraws in that are brutal. I play PLO8 DYM's, 30 per night, & I bet I get my Aces beat 10 times every single night. And of course I win 15 times with them, or whatever. We can even FOLD Aces pre-flop in PLO & PLO8.  Imagine that.      

Tikay10

PS - well done on Tuesday, 3rd of 217 in a BH.

I bet the other 214 all got unlucky at some stage, & I bet you got lucky a few times. It's almost impossible to final table a 200+ runner MTT without some luck along the road.

jakx85

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish???:

PS - well done on Tuesday, 3rd of 217 in a BH. I bet the other 214 all got unlucky at some stage, & I bet you got lucky a few times. It's almost impossible to final table a 200+ runner MTT without some luck along the road.
Posted by Tikay10

Hi Tikay thanks for the input.... you are most certainly right in what you said, it doesnt always happen i was maybe wrong to put that, it just seems it happens more often than not at key stages but that is poker i suppose and in a way this is why i do love the game, (you never know with poker).... i just dont know why some hand that are called pre flop all ins with say T4 off and kill you, hands like that i dont understand that sort of play are these players looking to bust??? or to just get really lucky which happens??? then the bad play/players end up busting anyway so its like was there any piont in that move against me in the first place! thanks again Tikay

Siteman

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish???:

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish??? : Hi Tikay thanks for the input.... you are most certainly right in what you said, it doesnt always happen i was maybe wrong to put that, it just seems it happens more often than not at key stages but that is poker i suppose and in a way this is why i do love the game, (you never know with poker).... i just dont know why some hand that are called pre flop all ins with say T4 off and kill you, hands like that i dont understand that sort of play are these players looking to bust??? or to just get really lucky which happens??? then the bad play/players end up busting anyway so its like was there any piont in that move against me in the first place! thanks again Tikay
Posted by jakx85

I tottaly agree with you jak. i don't know were he gets his numbers from - but this site is terrible for being out played by the lower hands. if you happen to be in a lucky seat, it doesn't matter what you play with you will win. The hands on this site are urealistic.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish???:

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish??? : I tottaly agree with you jak. i don't know were he gets his numbers from - but this site is terrible for being out played by the lower hands. if you happen to be in a lucky seat, it doesn't matter what you play with you will win. The hands on this site are urealistic.
Posted by Siteman

Is it unrealistic everytime someone wins the lottery? Cos that happens all the time and those people defied farrrr bigger odds than a bloke who won a bunch of poker hands where he probably always had a 20/30/40%+ chance of winning.

Hundreds of thousands of hands happen on sky everyday, chances are youre gonna get a fair few people who run amazing everyday

jubb

This topic should really be moved to brags beats and variance

Post the hand(s) and you will get the advice, I doubt all of your problems are down to luck though

CATCH-22

We all remember the beats but how many luky runouts do we remember. also calls from seemingly poorer hands can be stack position dependant with the right odds any 2 will do.

BigRonnieC

You can't stop other people getting lucky, no more than you can make your own luck... The best you can do is raise and create a table image, where possible. That way your big hands get respect and you can read a flop better, with room left to bluff sometimes.

Only other thing I can say is pay attention to stack sizes, how people play (how loose) and use that information. I prefer to play post flop against really loose players early blinds as I can trap them or shove when fairly sure I have best hand. 

Tlaloc666

Get sky to join the EEC... they are good and ending fishing

Darkangel7

Buy a bigger rod and tackle :P

rubikman

Hi, jax I know exactly what you mean I have had so many bad beats by people who shouldn't be in the pot. If you are like me you will only ever fluke a pot with a bad hand when you can check a big blind. E.G. I raised a big blind of 100 to 300 and was called by an 8 3 off, why would anybody call with an 8 3 offsuit? Yet the flop came 333. I had KQ suited and the next two cards on the board were QQ. although THE OTHER GUY BEAT ME I DONT HE PLAYED WELL.

AMYBR

Geez is Tikay still operational?  

Where do they find the spare parts?

BigRonnieC

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish???:

Hi, jax I know exactly what you mean I have had so many bad beats by people who shouldn't be in the pot. If you are like me you will only ever fluke a pot with a bad hand when you can check a big blind. E.G. I raised a big blind of 100 to 300 and was called by an 8 3 off, why would anybody call with an 8 3 offsuit? Yet the flop came 333. I had KQ suited and the next two cards on the board were QQ. although THE OTHER GUY BEAT ME I DONT HE PLAYED WELL.
Posted by rubikman

You beat this player 90% of the time - or often - so why complain the odd time you lose. If someone keeps making 10/1 bets with you and you know it is an evens chance, you will profit long term... drag that out to you making a 70%+ right choice and yeah, you often lose, but when you win, you win. C-betting and pre flop raising help greatly to reduce risk of losing like the above. That is just a horrible beat.

DESERTTURK

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish???:

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish??? : You beat this player 90% of the time - or often - so why complain the odd time you lose. If someone keeps making 10/1 bets with you and you know it is an evens chance, you will profit long term... drag that out to you making a 70%+ right choice and yeah, you often lose, but when you win, you win. C-betting and pre flop raising help greatly to reduce risk of losing like the above. That is just a horrible beat.
Posted by BigRonnieC

beat the player 90% of the time what on this site .. wake up and smell the coffee i did!

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish???:

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish??? : beat the player 90% of the time what on this site .. wake up and smell the coffee i did!
Posted by DESERTTURK

Never having bad beats or outdraws elsewhere? Best hand always holds up?

unknown_username

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish???:

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish??? : beat the player 90% of the time what on this site .. wake up and smell the coffee i did!
Posted by DESERTTURK

Oh, I miss you so much, I really do.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish???:

Geez is Tikay still operational?   Where do they find the spare parts?
Posted by AMYBR

Just about. The MOT expires this year, so that might be a problem. 



Despite reading these sort of threads for years, they still fascinate me, or, more correctly, the people who complain do.
 
I saw one refer to Sky's shuffling machine.

A shuffling machine, eh?

Wonder what that looks like?

Over on 2+2, they have a "Poker is rigged" thread, where 2+2 collate all Team Tin Hat stuff. 

It has 79,847 replies, & 3,757,370 Views, probably the biggest thread on that Forum. Now & then, I go take a look at it. It's beyond awesome.    

Tikay10

I should not indulge, I have better things to do, but hey, it's Sunday morning.

Easily my favourite line was this......

"The pause before the river card is dealt is so the software can find the right card"

I mean, that's just gasp-worthy, isn't it?

Some sites have that theatrical river card pause for dramatic effect, but the mind boggles that folks think it would take any longer to "find" any particular card. 

TeddyBloat

Conspiracy  theorists  are fascinating  humanoids. 

The lack of intellectual rigour, the flimsy reliance on evidence when dicussing the most extraordinary  claims, the primitive displays of rationality, just boss. almost childlike in a dewey-eyed-having-zero-self-awareness-sorta-way. 

Anyone who doesnt buy into their conjecture is, of course, the gullible one.

GELDY

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish???:

The pause before the river card is dealt is so the software can find the right card" I mean, that's just gasp-worthy.....

but the mind boggles that folks think it would take any longer to "find" any particular card. 
Posted by Tikay10

I'm not sure about that, teeks, as the last card algorithm is getting really complex these days, and maybe it's doesn't cache all the background info needed because of memory constraints. Think what it has to do for everyone who is still in the pot on the river:

what are the fair odds for each hand

who has been playing bad

who are the fish

who are in the lucky seats

who are bots

who are the big stacks

who are the regs

who are the newbies

who works for SkyPoker 

who has cashed out recently

who is about to write to the gambling regulator

and so on

then it has to work out which card will meet as many of the river requirements as possible. And sometimes there may be two or more players who should be helped to win the hand. So now it will need to look at all the recent river decisions for those two players to make the final decision. 

I don't care how good you say the sky software is, doing that will take some time and we know the software has memory problems which will slow it down further. And why not use the idea of a theatrical pause as a smokescreen for this - just genius. 

HENDRIK62

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish???:

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish??? : I'm not sure about that, teeks, as the last card algorithm is getting really complex these days, and maybe it's doesn't cache all the background info needed because of memory constraints. Think what it has to do for everyone who is still in the pot on the river: what are the fair odds for each hand who has been playing bad who are the fish who are in the lucky seats who are bots who are the big stacks who are the regs who are the newbies who works for SkyPoker  who has cashed out recently who is about to write to the gambling regulator and so on then it has to work out which card will meet as many of the river requirements as possible. And sometimes there may be two or more players who should be helped to win the hand. So now it will need to look at all the recent river decisions for those two players to make the final decision.  I don't care how good you say the sky software is, doing that will take some time and we know the software has memory problems which will slow it down further. And why not use the idea of a theatrical pause as a smokescreen for this - just genius. 
Posted by GELDY

:-)))) 

jakx85

surly thats just pure bull about the river been paused???!!! If this was really the case then are we not playing just to be beat? (i think not)..... we just have bad beats sometimes some people have more than others its just poker, we all moan about the bad beats the river ''the river that would never normally come'' no one can predict nor say what would normally come ive done my fair share of moaning and will probably still moan at the bad beats but im not gonna think its rigged when i see live hands get dealt like that all the time, again its POKER..... if someone wants to call you with a bad hand an win dont be to cut up about it,, make a note of the player and how loose they play, cash in on this later on.... you probably find in the long run your a much profitable player than the donks...  

BigRonnieC

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish???:

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish??? : I'm not sure about that, teeks, as the last card algorithm is getting really complex these days, and maybe it's doesn't cache all the background info needed because of memory constraints. Think what it has to do for everyone who is still in the pot on the river: what are the fair odds for each hand who has been playing bad who are the fish who are in the lucky seats who are bots who are the big stacks who are the regs who are the newbies who works for SkyPoker  who has cashed out recently who is about to write to the gambling regulator and so on then it has to work out which card will meet as many of the river requirements as possible. And sometimes there may be two or more players who should be helped to win the hand. So now it will need to look at all the recent river decisions for those two players to make the final decision.  I don't care how good you say the sky software is, doing that will take some time and we know the software has memory problems which will slow it down further. And why not use the idea of a theatrical pause as a smokescreen for this - just genius. 
Posted by GELDY

This will be read literally, you know that. You have just created several more excuses for why a 1/5 chance on river happens twice in a row to a player. By the way, a 1/5 chance the second time (in poker, roulette, any chance game) is still 1/5). 

The whole concept of being a winning player in poker takes into account 2 things:

Over time, the players who make the most +ev (mathermatically best calls given holding hands, cards on table and opponent's hands) will win and....

There will be variance, where you have strings of luck, or bad luck, so bankroll management is necessary to allow for these swings. 

If you (OP) want to see luck play out, go to ahy casino, and watch a roulette table. Ignore the green 0 slot, and look at red or black. Most tables now have a "history" of previous numbers and the colour. You will often see 10+ red/black numbers in a row, and that is in an hour or two. You see people mark off numbers that have come as if that is an indicator of numbers to come... there is still a 50% chance(minus 1/37 chance of 0) that the next number will be red or black. 

What many people confuse is the chance that if you bet on 10 consecutive reds to come up, the chance would be 2^10 (minus 0 coming up) - 1/1024. The chance of 11 coming up might be 1/2048 (again ignore green), but the chance of the 11th roll being red or black is still a coin toss.

DoyleBrun

When something bad happens we remember it more than when something good happens we just take it in and move on, what we find is we have "a bad beat memory" as if its scarred on our memory.

Benchmark

Can we have a '100 posts before calling the site rigged'? rule. Or at least 2 posts.

BigRonnieC

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish???:

I should not indulge, I have better things to do, but hey, it's Sunday morning. Easily my favourite line was this...... "The pause before the river card is dealt is so the software can find the right card" I mean, that's just gasp-worthy, isn't it? Some sites have that theatrical river card pause for dramatic effect, but the mind boggles that folks think it would take any longer to "find" any particular card. 
Posted by Tikay10

I agree with you that it is all done on RNG systems (random number generators) but if you could post something suggesting this... it would still not be accepted. If people posted a 1000 hand history, maybe 1 in a million got unlucky, but by and large, the odds play out as a poker calculator would suggest. It just feels rank when your Aces hit 10-4 off making a bad call and hitting a good flop. I've sucked out, been sucked out (poker wise...) and I get the rage, but these sites are regulated by and large. You can't get a licence otherwise.

BigRonnieC

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

And again no luck. Qualified for the 10k tournament tonight and my two big hands I play with an idiot who was pushing was: AQ v 77 LOST JJ V 99 LOST When it matters I dont catch. But when I sit on a SNG I cant stop getting good hands. Is there two different systems being used? I dont know how to test variance. What I meant was simply I hope luck WILL go my way when it matters. So far I am still getting burnt for making right calls. The AQ v 77 I can accept. Coin flip fair enough. JJ V 99......yea right
Posted by Gamer11

AQ v 77 you are an underdog. 

JJ v 99 you are unlucky but about 12% chance unlucky (1/9 for set plus straight and flush draws). 

Unless someone is drawing dead they can never have worse than a 2% chance on river,and often it is a lot higher (17% chance for flush/straight making it = 17% or so). If it was just skill, pros would never bust out.

unknown_username

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish???:

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish??? : beat the player 90% of the time what on this site .. wake up and smell the coffee i did!
Posted by DESERTTURK

Finished your coffee then.

DESERTTURK

7803.75

£9.40 Head Prizes

5

£5.60

Good to see you back at the tables.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish???:

In Response to Re: How can i stop people fishing??? When the board is constantly rewarding the fish??? : Finished your coffee then. DESERTTURK 7803.75   £9.40 Head Prizes 5 £5.60 Good to see you back at the tables.
Posted by mumsie

They always come back. Tail firmly between legs. Until the next time they think its rigged and flounce off again.

bert21

What seems to amaze me is that when you check some players on sharkscope who have called big raises with rubbish like 83 or 84 and get there or sometimes lead out with big raises with the same range of hands that get there, they are winning players. I would understand if they were losing players playing hands with the odds stacked against them