The table is like your typical wild west town, there are aggressive people wanting to steal all your money, they nick your chips and challange you to draw if you dare. It is a shootout, where only the meanest hombres will survive.
But one man stands alone, let's call him Clint. He observes the shootout from the sidelines, but his chips never leave his holster. The shootout lasts for 25 minutes and eventually there is a casualty, they are carted off to boot hill, and the shootout soon resumes in earnest.
Our hero, Clint, has decided that he has seen enough of this carnage and decides to blow the cobwebs off his unholstered chips, it's level 6 and he rides into town. The other players, seeing this mean hombre means business dive for cover, all except one, let's call him Van Cleef.
Van Cleef puts in a raise, Clint re-raises all in.....Draw if you dare Van Cleef?
Surely Van Cleef is not going to call our hero, he hasn't played a pot all game, surely he commands some respect? Clint's eyes narrow. Van Cleef's eyes narrow.
Will Van Cleef back down? Clint's eyes narrow even further. Van Cleef's eyes narrow even further too. Clint looks to his left, the undertaker is estimating his measurements, and has the appropriate casket propped against the wall. Clint's little cigar twitches in the side of his mouth. Van Cleef's moustache curls up a little.
Van Cleef has kicked in the saloon doors and has strode through them, he can't slink back out now. He reaches for his chips.
The other players look out from their hidey holes in aghast. Surely Van Cleef has the big guns? It surely has to be AA23 double suited?
Bam boom bam bam.......
The smoke clears......The dust settles......The other players see that Van Cleef does not have the big guns. He has a pea shooter.
The combatants stand eying each other. Van Cleef's moustache curls. Clint's cigar twitches. Van Cleef opens his coat to reveal an impenetrable steel plate. Clint opens his poncho to reveal pee stains.
Very funny post Craig lad Take's me back to when you used to write on my thread Back in the day. all about the gauntlet chucker and the like. Regards Alan (still the plo8 champ ) Posted by ajmilton
Yeah yours was a great thread, I wonder whatever happened to Sir Slippy of the Slimewater?
Thanks mate had a look at hendon site and done tests. still getting the basics mixed like the 3333A board not using 2 hole cards but it will sink in eventually great game
Thanks mate had a look at hendon site and done tests. still getting the basics mixed like the 3333A board not using 2 hole cards but it will sink in eventually great game Posted by weecheez1
That WHAT? Get outa here.
Plenty of good PLO & PLO8 tips on the Sky Poker site.
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : That WHAT? Get outa here. Plenty of good PLO & PLO8 tips on the Sky Poker site. These include..... Omaha Hi-Lo: Introduction Omaha Hi-Lo: Starting Hands Omaha Hi-Lo: Pre-flop Omaha Hi-Lo: Post-flop Omaha Hi-Lo: Advanced Concepts Posted by Tikay10
He he he I know feels a little bit naughty but I need all the help I can get I had a look at my sharkscope and it's terrible I need to buckle down get rid of the bad habits cut the bounty hunters down and start being more disciplined
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : That WHAT? Get outa here. Plenty of good PLO & PLO8 tips on the Sky Poker site. These include..... Omaha Hi-Lo: Introduction Omaha Hi-Lo: Starting Hands Omaha Hi-Lo: Pre-flop Omaha Hi-Lo: Post-flop Omaha Hi-Lo: Advanced Concepts Posted by Tikay10
As they say in the adverts, every little helps.
Apologies for refering Weecheez, to the Hendon tutorials, but they certainly helped me when I was starting out, along with the, of course excellent, advice on Skypoker. Their tests at the end of their tutorials were particularly helpful.
Weecheez was doing remarkably well in the tournament yesterday, and indeed was chip leader at one stage, I think that he has a good grasp for the game, a couple of tweeks, especially on the low side, and he will be a force to be reckoned with.
I will now go and wash my mouth out with soap for mentioning that other place.
^^^ Ha, I was just messing. More seriously, many people do not know that those PLO8 educational pieces existed on Sky Poker, & they are well worth a read. There is some really interesting advice on "Pushing & Pulling" in the Advanced Strategy section. The Starting Hand section is very good for beginners, too. Most mistakes start right there - poor starting hand selection. I am very strict with my starting hand range, which probably explains why I only play 2 hands a week. Posted by Tikay10
I think that this is the one area I have taken on board and improved most in the last year, and it can make a tremendous difference to your game.
On the starting hands, I always calculate what the best high I can achieve, and what is the best possible low before entering any pot. I think my range maybe a tad wider than yours, but not by much.
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : I think that this is the one area I have taken on board and improved most in the last year, and it can make a tremendous difference to your game. On the starting hands, I always calculate what the best high I can achieve, and what is the best possible low before entering any pot. I think my range maybe a tad wider than yours, but not by much. Posted by 67Bhoys
"Pushing & pulling" is a key fundamental of PLO8. Very very important to know when to do either or neither.
Your ranges are perfect, imo. I said the other day, play 100 games at any level - £3., £5 or £10, & I'm confident you will make a profit, you just get the basics.
My ranges vary player to player, & depending on the blinds. I play a MUCH wider range at the sharp end, but almost always "first to act". I bin really strong hands at that stage if someone else opens first, & I'm semi-locked for the win, or if one player is short.
I almost never play back at some players, because I know their ranges, & I don't want to flip unless I have to, & against these guys, I'm always flipping.
When we flip, we are, say, generally close to 50-50.
When I bet, first to act, & I can force folds 75% of the time, I'm getting MUCH better odds. If I get called 25% of the time & I'm still 50-50, these are great odds.
(All this assumes blinds are big & we are at the sharp end).
Managed first small cash beaten Hu by the bookie but the confidence is still not quite there .There does not seem to be the many micro players at this game
Managed first small cash beaten Hu by the bookie but the confidence is still not quite there .There does not seem to be the many micro players at this game Posted by weecheez1
Hi mate, all of the regular PLO8 players try to encourage new players to the game, for us it is a fascinating game, with so much more levels of thinking than you get in holdem imo.
It does seem complex at 1st, which may be why there are only a limited number of players who stick at it, but believe me that once you do get a grasp on it, you will be hooked.
It also will help your holdem game no end, because in PLO8 reading the board, reading your opponents and their holdings is key. Again imo, it sharpens the mind, to a level that I never utilised in the holdem game.
There are some very good players at the microstakes levels, and you will see the same players over and over, just because of the small player pool.
You will not make tons of cash at the microstakes levels because of the (ridiculous imo)20%, 15% and 12.5% rakes. I have for example, in December, played 32 DYMs at 60p, have a win rate of 62.5% and have made the staggering profit of 80p. You will however, be able to chat with some very friendly peeps, and learn the ins and outs of the game.
You do seem to have a good grasp of the high part of the game, and you may do well in Omaha also. Last night you had accumulated 8.5K in chips by level 6 and were chip leader, no mean feat. The table we were on had some very accomplished players and you were holding your own. I can't recall where you finished, but for a new player, you punched well above your weight. we'll gloss over the player who busted you, he is just one lucky Bhoy.
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : That WHAT? Get outa here. Plenty of good PLO & PLO8 tips on the Sky Poker site. These include..... Omaha Hi-Lo: Introduction Omaha Hi-Lo: Starting Hands Omaha Hi-Lo: Pre-flop Omaha Hi-Lo: Post-flop Omaha Hi-Lo: Advanced Concepts Posted by Tikay10
Not off or on topic but Stu Rutter's tips for holdem are amazing, especially the range assigning youtube videos, and they are hardly viewed.
PL08 I have only played twice I think - once out of curiousity and once by accident thinking it was holdem when I clicked at 5/6 registered
I was off googling rules and good hands, said it in chat box, and so were half the table
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : Not off or on topic but Stu Rutter's tips for holdem are amazing, especially the range assigning youtube videos, and they are hardly viewed. PL08 I have only played twice I think - once out of curiousity and once by accident thinking it was holdem when I clicked at 5/6 registered I was off googling rules and good hands, said it in chat box, and so were half the table Posted by BigRonnieC
Feel free to join us for a few games. Any advice you need, just ask.
Stu Rutter? Yes, he has great ability at NLH, as well as PLO8, & he has enjoyed remarkable success at the WSOP the last few years - 10 cashes in 2 years, in a whole variety of formats. Oddly, for one so versatile, he does not play PLO at all.
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : Feel free to join us for a few games. Any advice you need, just ask. Stu Rutter? Yes, he has great ability at NLH, as well as PLO8, & he has enjoyed remarkable success at the WSOP the last few years - 10 cashes in 2 years, in a whole variety of formats. Oddly, for one so versatile, he does not play PLO at all. Posted by Tikay10
PLO I get; hi lo is so alien to me (in goal as much as strategy - think of it this way - explain PLO hi lo to a stranger and how to win in less than a text message; then justify it).
I just wanted to give a shout out to Stu's videos. I have read so much on putting opponents on ranges, how your opponent views your range etc etc and Stu broke it down very succinctly. Don't worry, I watched your 58 minute youtube video Tikay. Richard will remember me as the guy who bet Carlo £50 I would win quiz, I won and stayed mute on whether it would go to charity.
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : PLO I get; hi lo is so alien to me (in goal as much as strategy - think of it this way - explain PLO hi lo to a stranger and how to win in less than a text message; then justify it). I just wanted to give a shout out to Stu's videos. I have read so much on putting opponents on ranges, how your opponent views your range etc etc and Stu broke it down very succinctly. Don't worry, I watched your 58 minute youtube video Tikay. Richard will remember me as the guy who bet Carlo £50 I would win quiz, I won and stayed mute on whether it would go to charity. Posted by BigRonnieC
Hi Ronnie,
Yup, it's THE most peculiar game to try & explain to newbies. It's often the case that a player registers for PLO8 in error, then types in the chat box "how do you play this game?"
I mean, how are we meant to describe it in a few sentences? The Low pot - which may or may not exist - has no straights, flushes, pairs, 2 pairs, sets, flushes or full houses. The High Pot - there is always a high - obeys the normal rules of poker.
And on most occasions, we split the pot. And our nut low can result in us receiving only one third or one sixth of the pot.
Go figure.
Fortunately, many players still think the game revolves around good low hands. Thank goodness for them. They are our profit.
Stu Rutter's analysis? Yup, stunningly good, he really gets poker. I had the misfortune to share 2 Tables with Stu in Vegas last year (2015...) in WSOP PLO8 Events. He's tough to play. Oddly, he plays all the mixed games, & very well, but he does not play PLO.
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : Hi Ronnie, Yup, it's THE most peculiar game to try & explain to newbies. It's often the case that a player registers for PLO8 in error, then types in the chat box "how do you play this game?" I mean, how are we meant to describe it in a few sentences? The Low pot - which may or may not exist - has no straights, flushes, pairs, 2 pairs, sets, flushes or full houses. The High Pot - there is always a high - obeys the normal rules of poker. And on most occasions, we split the pot. And our nut low can result in us receiving only one third or one sixth of the pot. Go figure. Fortunately, many players still think the game revolves around good low hands. Thank goodness for them. They are our profit. Stu Rutter's analysis? Yup, stunningly good, he really gets poker. I had the misfortune to share 2 Tables with Stu in Vegas last year (2015...) in WSOP PLO8 Events. He's tough to play. Oddly, he plays all the mixed games, & very well, but he does not play PLO. Posted by Tikay10
But Aces can be a low card, as well as a high card, and A2345 is best hand, though there are no straights or flushes; and the best hand must be any 5 (2 from hand 3 from board) lower than 8 high. It is like the rules to throw the Holy Grenade of Antioch in Monty Python. Thou shalt not count a card above 8, thee Ace doth be the best high card but yea, also the best low card. Thou shalt not counst 456 8 and then a 9, nor shall thou count thy card suit. A 2 3 4 5 shall be the best hand - not ace 2 3 5 6, nor A 2 3 4 6...
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : But Aces can be a low card, as well as a high card, and A2345 is best hand, though there are no straights or flushes; and the best hand must be any 5 (2 from hand 3 from board) lower than 8 high. It is like the rules to throw the Holy Grenade of Antioch in Monty Python. Thou shalt not count a card above 8, thee Ace doth be the best high card but yea, also the best low card. Thou shalt not counst 456 8 and then a 9, nor shall thou count thy card suit. A 2 3 4 5 shall be the best hand - not ace 2 3 5 6, nor A 2 3 4 6... Posted by BigRonnieC
Ha, or even poker's version of Mornington Crescent.
As I wrote earlier, when someone registers for a PLO8 game by mistake, & innocently asks "how do you play this game", how are we supposed to reply succinctly?
There's a clue in there as to the "secret" of PLO8, too - the Ace effectively being TWO cards. Anyone who does not recognize that will be a loser in the game.
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : Ha, or even poker's version of Mornington Crescent. As I wrote earlier, when someone registers for a PLO8 game by mistake, & innocently asks "how do you play this game", how are we supposed to reply succinctly? There's a clue in there as to the "secret" of PLO8, too - the Ace effectively being TWO cards. Anyone who does not recognize that will be a loser in the game. PS - Post more please, I much enjoy your writing. Posted by Tikay10
I write for national newspapers here - I am just, shall we say, curtailed with the humour I can use in a legal and business section of a Sunday paper
I am happy to stick with hold'em; I am reading about PLO8 (surely it pays to know what less people understand???) but if you think about it, it really is such an oddball game. I can imagine that THAT is what draws players to it. I just don't want to be the sucker at the table and not understand the jokes about me.
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : I write for national newspapers here - I am just, shall we say, curtailed with the humour I can use in a legal and business section of a Sunday paper I am happy to stick with hold'em; I am reading about PLO8 (surely it pays to know what less people understand???) but if you think about it, it really is such an oddball game. I can imagine that THAT is what draws players to it. I just don't want to be the sucker at the table and not understand the jokes about me. Posted by BigRonnieC
Don't worry about it Ronnie share a few tables with me and we will split the jokes between us lol
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : Don't worry about it Ronnie share a few tables with me and we will split the jokes between us lol Posted by weecheez1
Yeah, you take the high pot of telling the joke and I take the low pot of being the joke! No thanks!
In Response to Re: The spaghetti western strategy : Yeah, you take the high pot of telling the joke and I take the low pot of being the joke! No thanks! Posted by BigRonnieC
I am currently reading "The Professor, The Banker and the Suicide King". Great book btw, I am nearly finished 2 days after postman woke me early (I'm not angry at all) - learned about 72 razz and, though I played and won money at it once, stud.
I won't mention Chinese Poker as that would take 2000 hieroglyphs to illustrate, but other forms of poker seem appealing now. Omaha just comes across (initially - correct me if wrong) as a nit game very dependent on hole cards.
I am currently reading "The Professor, The Banker and the Suicide King". Great book btw, I am nearly finished 2 days after postman woke me early (I'm not angry at all) - learned about 72 razz and, though I played and won money at it once, stud. I won't mention Chinese Poker as that would take 2000 hieroglyphs to illustrate, but other forms of poker seem appealing now. Omaha just comes across (initially - correct me if wrong) as a nit game very dependent on hole cards. In a few sentences, sell me Omaha - and hi/lo. Posted by BigRonnieC
I do wish you'd post more Ronnie, & not just in the Hand Analysis boards. Love your Posts, all of them.
Anyway, to your question.
More fun.
More action.
Bigger hands. Boats, flushes & sets happen so much more frequently.
We are "allowed" to limp pre, assuming sensible stack sixes relative to blinds.
It's a drawing game, not a game of made hands.
More skill required. (Arguably).
More thought required.
Pot Limit is brain not brawn.
More people play it badly.
Played by people who, though only my perception, are more friendly.
The fact that so few play the game suggests I'm wrong, of course. Probably.
Comments
Ha, brilliant.
And yes, I insta recognized Clint & Van Cleef.
I suspect Clint may have been a tad surprised with Van Cleef's range.
Was quite surprised that the post had got past the mods then I realised that I didn't have my reading glasses on and it was in fact 'Clint'.
Plenty of good PLO & PLO8 tips on the Sky Poker site.
These include.....
Omaha Hi-Lo: Introduction Omaha Hi-Lo: Starting Hands Omaha Hi-Lo: Pre-flop Omaha Hi-Lo: Post-flop Omaha Hi-Lo: Advanced Concepts
^^^
Ha, I was just messing.
More seriously, many people do not know that those PLO8 educational pieces existed on Sky Poker, & they are well worth a read.
There is some really interesting advice on "Pushing & Pulling" in the Advanced Strategy section.
The Starting Hand section is very good for beginners, too. Most mistakes start right there - poor starting hand selection.
I am very strict with my starting hand range, which probably explains why I only play 2 hands a week.
Your ranges are perfect, imo. I said the other day, play 100 games at any level - £3., £5 or £10, & I'm confident you will make a profit, you just get the basics.
My ranges vary player to player, & depending on the blinds. I play a MUCH wider range at the sharp end, but almost always "first to act". I bin really strong hands at that stage if someone else opens first, & I'm semi-locked for the win, or if one player is short.
I almost never play back at some players, because I know their ranges, & I don't want to flip unless I have to, & against these guys, I'm always flipping.
When we flip, we are, say, generally close to 50-50.
When I bet, first to act, & I can force folds 75% of the time, I'm getting MUCH better odds. If I get called 25% of the time & I'm still 50-50, these are great odds.
(All this assumes blinds are big & we are at the sharp end).
Feel free to join us for a few games. Any advice you need, just ask.
Stu Rutter? Yes, he has great ability at NLH, as well as PLO8, & he has enjoyed remarkable success at the WSOP the last few years - 10 cashes in 2 years, in a whole variety of formats. Oddly, for one so versatile, he does not play PLO at all.
Yup, it's THE most peculiar game to try & explain to newbies. It's often the case that a player registers for PLO8 in error, then types in the chat box "how do you play this game?"
I mean, how are we meant to describe it in a few sentences? The Low pot - which may or may not exist - has no straights, flushes, pairs, 2 pairs, sets, flushes or full houses. The High Pot - there is always a high - obeys the normal rules of poker.
And on most occasions, we split the pot. And our nut low can result in us receiving only one third or one sixth of the pot.
Go figure.
Fortunately, many players still think the game revolves around good low hands. Thank goodness for them. They are our profit.
Stu Rutter's analysis? Yup, stunningly good, he really gets poker. I had the misfortune to share 2 Tables with Stu in Vegas last year (2015...) in WSOP PLO8 Events. He's tough to play. Oddly, he plays all the mixed games, & very well, but he does not play PLO.
As I wrote earlier, when someone registers for a PLO8 game by mistake, & innocently asks "how do you play this game", how are we supposed to reply succinctly?
There's a clue in there as to the "secret" of PLO8, too - the Ace effectively being TWO cards. Anyone who does not recognize that will be a loser in the game.
PS - Post more please, I much enjoy your writing.
Anyway, to your question.
More fun.
More action.
Bigger hands. Boats, flushes & sets happen so much more frequently.
We are "allowed" to limp pre, assuming sensible stack sixes relative to blinds.
It's a drawing game, not a game of made hands.
More skill required. (Arguably).
More thought required.
Pot Limit is brain not brawn.
More people play it badly.
Played by people who, though only my perception, are more friendly.
The fact that so few play the game suggests I'm wrong, of course. Probably.