Would you make these calls?

TommyD

Tikay10

".....the final nail in the coffin was QQ vs Q9. Tripes 9's was the end result.That is unreal "

I'm afraid anyone who thinks that is "unreal", & has not seen it, or its equivalent, hundreds of times, has not played much poker. I'd bet good money you've been on the winning end of similar coups, too. We all have.

Anyway, as to my efforts to help & advise, think I'll file this under

Primary File - FAIL

Secondary File - Lost Causes
 
The VBOL wherever you choose to play, Mr Gamer.

Over & out.

unknown_username

all poker sites have the moaners 

most just blame this or that but have no forum to get any feedback from and dont have support like sky do.

tikay puts his own time here mate and you knock it whick imo is bad manners.

beats are worse on sky as its a short handed site so everybody needs to get involved more. btw what level are you playing to get thes calls?.

ive played most online sites now and after a long time realised sky is the place to be.

Gamer11

MickyBlue you are right and I apologise tikay. I have taken all the advice on board. Right now I just need to focus on my own game and try out a few other sites because the amount of bad beats I am getting is starting to get to me (if that wasn't obvious to tell). Need to see that this stream of bad luck is more about my game than it is about sky. I need to go back to enjoying my poker. So for now, thank you for the advice. I am done with discussions. Thank you for your time.

Tikay10

Gl Gamer.

Talon

 Read this thread with interest to see how it would go. And one line stuck in my head and felt compelled to comment upon it.

  And again no luck. Qualified for the 10k tournament tonight

  This was said by you and sums up the problem very nicely in one line. The problem is not the bad side of variance or anything like that but perception. When on the good side of variance you take it as read that should happen and ignore it only focussing on the bad.

 In this quote you said you had no luck and then immediately say that you qualified for a big tournament. A massive chunk of luck and well on the plus aide of variance there. But has not been entered on the positive variance side.

  Simply put you will have bad luck at times as will we all but you will have good luck too. You need to understand when this is and except it for what it is and not take it as read that it is totally deserved due to your ability.

 When you have your head in the right place you will enjoy poker more and may then be able to focus on things that need it

Gamer11

I have to put one thing clear because I get the feeling people assume I do not take into account when I am covered in an all in like A5 V AK or 10 10 V K K.

I dont see the good side of variance much because I win hands where the odds favour me. I even respect when its A10 V K9 that we have pretty much got a coin flip with my ace high giving me a slight edge. I respect the maths of poker but I no longer believe sky poker does. It is VERY rare for me to win when I am behind and even more rare if I am covered. If you consider AK v 66 as me being behind then those are the only situations where I leave it to luck.

My main debate and problem with sky poker is the 2/3 out hands. The countless times I will have someone covered and magic happens is unreal. Im talking about hands like:

AJ V A10
K10 V K8
KK V KQ
AA V 88
etc...

Hands that the villians only have a handful of cards that could save them. Hands that once in a while I can accept being beaten on. But when your best success in these positions feels like you are 50/50 on them you start to notice the frequency of these beats. And almost everytime I am behind...I lose which I can accept if the reverse was anything similar. But that's not the case. Sky loves action. I have people on my table saying "wow" and the things they see happen.

So like I said, before I review my game anymore I am trying out other sites and let me just add so far..so good.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

I have to put one thing clear because I get the feeling people assume I do not take into account when I am covered in an all in like A5 V AK or 10 10 V K K. I dont see the good side of variance much because I win hands where the odds favour me. I even respect when its A10 V K9 that we have pretty much got a coin flip with my ace high giving me a slight edge. I respect the maths of poker but I no longer believe sky poker does. It is VERY rare for me to win when I am behind and even more rare if I am covered. If you consider AK v 66 as me being behind then those are the only situations where I leave it to luck. My main debate and problem with sky poker is the 2/3 out hands. The countless times I will have someone covered and magic happens is unreal. Im talking about hands like: AJ V A10 K10 V K8 KK V KQ AA V 88 etc... Hands that the villians only have a handful of cards that could save them. Hands that once in a while I can accept being beaten on. But when your best success in these positions feels like you are 50/50 on them you start to notice the frequency of these beats. And almost everytime I am behind...I lose which I can accept if the reverse was anything similar. But that's not the case. Sky loves action. I have people on my table saying "wow" and the things they see happen. So like I said, before I review my game anymore I am trying out other sites and let me just add so far..so good.
Posted by Gamer11

See you next week.

BorinLoner

Why I'm doing this, I don't know.

Here's an example of how to work out your Expected Value.

I put in 100bb. You put in 100bb. I have AQ, you have AK. Roughly a 70/30 shot in your favour.

The amount you expect to win is NOT 200bb. It's 70% of the total pot. So that's 140bb.

That means your expected profit in that hand is only 40bb. So every individual time you profit to the tune of 100bb, you are running on the positive side of variance. You're getting lucky every time you win the full 200bb pot.

Now, what seems to be a bigger problem in your game is that you're not playing enough hands aggressively enough. That's fine if you're not taking the game really seriously, but you are. The negative results are obviously stressing you out a bit too, so that's something you need to try to fix.

Here's an example of the effect of your tournament strategy as I interpret it, and possibly the reason for your distress.

We get AA early on and get all in vs JJ and win. - That's as it should be. Yipee!

We wait for another big hand (AT+, JJ+) before making a big play... So we dwindle, dwindle, dwindle, all the time still making the calls trying to hit with our moderate hands like QJ, etc... Winning some, losing more because we miss more often than we hit flops. Maybe getting a few big hands but not getting action.

Then we get KK and double up again vs AQ or similar. - Again, that's how it should be. Yipee. But we're not building a big stack because we haven't made enough of those other spots with less than premium hands.

Dwindle, dwindle, dwindle...

Another double with say AJ vs AT on an Ace high board. - As it should be.

Dwindle, dwindle, dwindle...

AK all in vs AQ... lose and we're out. - OMG! It's so rigged! How can I go out of tournaments as a favourite all the time?!

If you only play big hands in a tournament, you will need to win virtually all of them. You're relying on luck to get you through, and relying on running very well. You should lose one of these spots and it's not running bad when you do. 

If experience has taught me anything it's that someone who's convinced a site is rigged can not be reasoned with... prove the exception to that, Gamer11.

weecheez1

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

Why I'm doing this, I don't know. Here's an example of how to work out your Expected Value. I put in 100bb. You put in 100bb. I have AQ, you have AK. Roughly a 70/30 shot in your favour. The amount you expect to win is NOT 200bb. It's 70% of the total pot. So that's 140bb. That means your expected profit in that hand is only 40bb . So every individual time you profit to the tune of 100bb , you are running on the positive side of variance . You're getting lucky every time you win the full 200bb pot. Now, what seems to be a bigger problem in your game is that you're not playing enough hands aggressively enough. That's fine if you're not taking the game really seriously, but you are. The negative results are obviously stressing you out a bit too, so that's something you need to try to fix. Here's an example of the effect of your tournament strategy as I interpret it, and possibly the reason for your distress. We get AA early on and get all in vs JJ and win. - That's as it should be. Yipee! We wait for another big hand (AT+, JJ+) before making a big play... So we dwindle, dwindle, dwindle, all the time still making the calls trying to hit with our moderate hands like QJ, etc... Winning some, losing more because we miss more often than we hit flops. Maybe getting a few big hands but not getting action. Then we get KK and double up again vs AQ or similar. - Again, that's how it should be. Yipee. But we're not building a big stack because we haven't made enough of those other spots with less than premium hands. Dwindle, dwindle, dwindle... Another double with say AJ vs AT on an Ace high board. - As it should be. Dwindle, dwindle, dwindle... AK all in vs AQ... lose and we're out. -  OMG! It's so rigged! How can I go out of tournaments as a favourite all the time?! If you only play big hands in a tournament, you will need to win virtually all of them. You're relying on luck to get you through, and relying on running very well. You  should  lose one of these spots and it's not running bad when you do.  If experience has taught me anything it's that someone who's convinced a site is rigged can not be reasoned with... prove the exception to that, Gamer11.
Posted by BorinLoner

weecheez1

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls? :
Posted by weecheez1

Really good read

Gamer11

Firstly - hhyftr... and whatever the rest of your foolish name is, please keep the jokes to yourself. You think your funny but you aint. Get a girl. Get a life. Get some real friends and stop looking for some on a website. Oh and dont waste your time commenting on my posts. I just skip past them, even when you think you've typed something useful. See you never.

Borin - Thank you for that perspective. I appreciate what your saying and your right. If you are a player who relies on the cards to win you a tournament you will struggle. And you will lose spots that you are ahead in. But you should also win some too. A few more than you should lose right?

I don't feel the site is rigged as others that say it might do. I just feel there is too much action on this site, but everytime I enter a game I don't take that thought with me. I try and stay clear minded. All I play now are single SNG. I will record and make a post here on ALL my hands that went to a showdown. That way at least I can see for myself get a final round of perspectives.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

Firstly - hhyftr... and whatever the rest of your foolish name is, please keep the jokes to yourself. You think your funny but you aint. Get a girl. Get a life. Get some real friends and stop looking for some on a website. Oh and dont waste your time commenting on my posts. I just skip past them, even when you think you've typed something useful. See you never. Borin - Thank you for that perspective. I appreciate what your saying and your right. If you are a player who relies on the cards to win you a tournament you will struggle. And you will lose spots that you are ahead in. But you should also win some too. A few more than you should lose right? I don't feel the site is rigged as others that say it might do. I just feel there is too much action on this site, but everytime I enter a game I don't take that thought with me. I try and stay clear minded. All I play now are single SNG. I will record and make a post here on ALL my hands that went to a showdown. That way at least I can see for myself get a final round of perspectives.
Posted by Gamer11

Solid advice.

Will you make your mind up? Either the site is or isn't rigged. I would say good luck but I think we've all lost our patience to care either way. You clearly don't have the correct mental attitude to play poker, maybe look for another hobby.

CHICKFEET

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

Why I'm doing this, I don't know. Here's an example of how to work out your Expected Value. I put in 100bb. You put in 100bb. I have AQ, you have AK. Roughly a 70/30 shot in your favour. The amount you expect to win is NOT 200bb. It's 70% of the total pot. So that's 140bb. That means your expected profit in that hand is only 40bb . So every individual time you profit to the tune of 100bb , you are running on the positive side of variance . You're getting lucky every time you win the full 200bb pot. Now, what seems to be a bigger problem in your game is that you're not playing enough hands aggressively enough. That's fine if you're not taking the game really seriously, but you are. The negative results are obviously stressing you out a bit too, so that's something you need to try to fix. Here's an example of the effect of your tournament strategy as I interpret it, and possibly the reason for your distress. We get AA early on and get all in vs JJ and win. - That's as it should be. Yipee! We wait for another big hand (AT+, JJ+) before making a big play... So we dwindle, dwindle, dwindle, all the time still making the calls trying to hit with our moderate hands like QJ, etc... Winning some, losing more because we miss more often than we hit flops. Maybe getting a few big hands but not getting action. Then we get KK and double up again vs AQ or similar. - Again, that's how it should be. Yipee. But we're not building a big stack because we haven't made enough of those other spots with less than premium hands. Dwindle, dwindle, dwindle... Another double with say AJ vs AT on an Ace high board. - As it should be. Dwindle, dwindle, dwindle... AK all in vs AQ... lose and we're out. -  OMG! It's so rigged! How can I go out of tournaments as a favourite all the time?! If you only play big hands in a tournament, you will need to win virtually all of them. You're relying on luck to get you through, and relying on running very well. You  should  lose one of these spots and it's not running bad when you do.  If experience has taught me anything it's that someone who's convinced a site is rigged can not be reasoned with... prove the exception to that, Gamer11.
Posted by BorinLoner

CHICKFEET

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

Why I'm doing this, I don't know. Here's an example of how to work out your Expected Value. I put in 100bb. You put in 100bb. I have AQ, you have AK. Roughly a 70/30 shot in your favour. The amount you expect to win is NOT 200bb. It's 70% of the total pot. So that's 140bb. That means your expected profit in that hand is only 40bb . So every individual time you profit to the tune of 100bb , you are running on the positive side of variance . You're getting lucky every time you win the full 200bb pot. Now, what seems to be a bigger problem in your game is that you're not playing enough hands aggressively enough. That's fine if you're not taking the game really seriously, but you are. The negative results are obviously stressing you out a bit too, so that's something you need to try to fix. Here's an example of the effect of your tournament strategy as I interpret it, and possibly the reason for your distress. We get AA early on and get all in vs JJ and win. - That's as it should be. Yipee! We wait for another big hand (AT+, JJ+) before making a big play... So we dwindle, dwindle, dwindle, all the time still making the calls trying to hit with our moderate hands like QJ, etc... Winning some, losing more because we miss more often than we hit flops. Maybe getting a few big hands but not getting action. Then we get KK and double up again vs AQ or similar. - Again, that's how it should be. Yipee. But we're not building a big stack because we haven't made enough of those other spots with less than premium hands. Dwindle, dwindle, dwindle... Another double with say AJ vs AT on an Ace high board. - As it should be. Dwindle, dwindle, dwindle... AK all in vs AQ... lose and we're out. -  OMG! It's so rigged! How can I go out of tournaments as a favourite all the time?! If you only play big hands in a tournament, you will need to win virtually all of them. You're relying on luck to get you through, and relying on running very well. You  should  lose one of these spots and it's not running bad when you do.  If experience has taught me anything it's that someone who's convinced a site is rigged can not be reasoned with... prove the exception to that, Gamer11.
Posted by BorinLoner

BigRonnieC

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

And again no luck. Qualified for the 10k tournament tonight and my two big hands I play with an idiot who was pushing was: AQ v 77 LOST JJ V 99 LOST When it matters I dont catch. But when I sit on a SNG I cant stop getting good hands. Is there two different systems being used? I dont know how to test variance. What I meant was simply I hope luck WILL go my way when it matters. So far I am still getting burnt for making right calls. The AQ v 77 I can accept. Coin flip fair enough. JJ V 99......yea right
Posted by Gamer11

AQ v 77 you are an underdog. 

JJ v 99 you are unlucky but about 12% chance unlucky (1/9 for set plus straight and flush draws). 

Unless someone is drawing dead they can never have worse than a 2% chance on river,and often it is a lot higher (17% chance for flush/straight making it = 17% or so). If it was just skill, pros would never bust out.

shepspaul

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

Hi Gamer "What I mean about not making the river is when I have over 10 outs, I wont hit but someone with 3 outs will hit just fine. Especially against me. I dont change my mentality but I do find that I really get the bad end of things" If I may say so, the problems are in your head. You THINK you get the bad end of things, that's just selective memory at work. "The conclusion is online poker really isn't the same as a real deal, but then again what site is." If you think there is a difference between Online poker & what you call "real poker", I'm sorry to say you are wrong. It's just maths, & the maths don't change. Ever. There are no "bent" Online Poker sites. None. Why would there be any, for what purpose or motive?  "Instead of sleeping on it, when I lose crazy hands I pull out a real deck and play the same hands again 10 times to see how many times I win or lose it" All that does is reinforce in your mind what you believe. 10 hands is utterly meaningless.  That "4-7" hand the chap will hit it on the river, ON AVERAGE, in time in 11.   But this is where Variance rears it's two-faced head, & it's variance that makes poker the great game it is, once you learn to embrace it.   Try & replicate that hand by getting a deck of cards & dealing out hands does not work unless you do it 100,000 times. That outcome could come up twice in a row, or not once in 1,000 attempts. That's real poker.  "I am the type to nervously call a raise pre flop with KK, see no ace on the flop and check the flop (if first to act)"   This is subjective, & I'm no expert on NLH, but you are the architect of your own downfall playing Kings like that. Supposing an Ace DOES flop, is Villain guaranteed to have it? He's not, but plenty will rep it. Ask any of the winners here, lads like Matt Bates, & he can have any spanners at all, but will rep that Ace. And you will do the "fit or fold" fold.  That's why these kids do so well.   I hope you don't think I'm being over critical - I'm not, I'm trying to help. These problems are in your mind.  Any questions, fire away. We'll get there, but you need to clear your mind of this "online poker is not real poker" stuff. The maths is the maths is the maths. It's that simple. Good luck mate.      
Posted by Tikay10

shepspaul

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls? :
Posted by weecheez1

easy to say when you are looked after the plebs just get screwed repeatedly

dimspal

i enjoy read lot of these posts some you win some you dont that poker play lot hands seen lot but if play enough hands right way it will turn around if you get lot bad beats just take time out .but site are not rigged got lol click on the next game try again ,but if not enjoying it stop playing good luck 2 all have fun at the tables