Explaining the "Squeeze Play"

Tikay10

We need some volunteers from amongst the better players to explain what a squeeze play is.
 
Why?

I was quite surprised a few days ago after I mentioned a squeeze play in the chat box when no less than 3 players all said "never heard of it".

I'll try & get us started, but we do need some of the Big Boys to help explain it better please.  

Tikay10

The Squeeze Play.

When a loose & frequent opener opens, & the 2 or 3 player behind both peel because they know the opener is opening loose & wide, we can "squeeze" here by putting in a big bet. Needs to be 5x or 6x or similar.

Generally, none of the peelers can call - they'd have raised if they had anything decent - & the only worry is the opener. And most of the time (though not 100%) he can't call either. We might walk into slow played Aces from the opener now & then, but that's the only spot we have to worry about.  

Tikay10

In a DYM, for example, with 6 players left & blinds at 150-300, if 3 or 4 players limp, (remarkably, it often happens....) we can very often pot it & take it down here & now.

Bear in mind we are getting a great price to do this, & they can almost never call.
 
And the best thing of all (when it works) is that we don't even see a flop. How neat is that?

It will go wrong from time to time, of course it will, but over time, if used with care, & after noting player tendencies, you should end up nicely in profit.

  

Tikay10

Over to you now - lets have some debate & views on this please. We can all learn from this.  

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play":

Over to you now - lets have some debate & views on this please. We can all learn from this.  
Posted by Tikay10

Hard to debate it when you've pretty much covered all its bases

I would say it doesn't necessarily (had to Google that) have to be an active opener, helps if it is though. Great move when in position, but squeezing out of the blinds lets anyone know who does peel that you're gonna be bombing into them on the flop and beyond.

Nothing worse if you squeeze the button, but then get the domino effect of the original raiser calling and the rest all flicking in as well

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play":

In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play" : Hard to debate it when you've pretty much covered all its bases I would say it doesn't necessarily (had to Google that) have to be an active opener, helps if it is though. Great move when in position, but squeezing out of the blinds lets anyone know who does peel that you're gonna be bombing into them on the flop and beyond. Nothing worse if you squeeze the button, but then get the domino effect of the original raiser calling and the rest all flicking in as well
Posted by hhyftrftdr

Exactly that.

PS - Good to have an explanation from you, but it'd be good to get proper players to explain, too.  

day4eire76

In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play":

In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play" : Exactly that. PS - Good to have an explanation from you, but it'd be good to get proper players to explain, too.  
Posted by Tikay10

; )

aussie09

do you mean me?

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play":

do you mean me?
Posted by aussie09

Would be great to get your input, Rob.

pompeynic

Not that I am a proper player or anything like that, but we had an interesting example in our PLO8 DYM the other night. If I remember correctly, button was limping almost every pot, I am in the SB unsuited A K 10 4 , I "bumped it up" in a sort of semi bluff squeezeish play only to find you re-raise in the BB . Button folds and after I dwelt a little I folded, and you showed the inevitable AA22 cannot remember but I guess you were at least suited on one side and probably two.

You asked if my bet was inspired by the limping of said player and I said yes, adding that in the past I would probably have gambled. You did not say anything further and I was wondering whether I was correct in folding or not ? I think I still had around about 1000 chips left and I am pretty sure I lost a few hands later as the blinds were getting bigger. 

Not sure if this is a good example, or even worth posting but thought I would.

Yours and anyone else's thoughts would be appreciated

Nick

aussie09

In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play":

In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play" : Would be great to get your input, Rob.
Posted by Tikay10

i was joking.  thanks for the invite to comment.  your description and posts describe it all.  however, there are a couple of other things to consider. 

firstly, to be aware of who is yet to play.  they might be a good player with a reasonable hand, they might have pot odds, or they could be rich and/or uber silly. 

secondly, consider inducing a squeeze from any uber aggro players downstream. 

great fun.

TeddyBloat

you should always compare the Ev of an action to other options.

squeeze plays can be highly profitable, but so too can flatting.

i mainly play 3 handed games, so will address situations where we are BB and Btn has raised an SB flats.

BTN will have a playable range weighted to value. open folding costs nothing when you are BTN so no need to play hands that are -EV from start of hand

SB will have a fairly strong but usually capped range - generally they have to respect the buttons range, our uncapped range and their being out of position post.

yes against wide BTN openers we have a profitable squeeze opportunity but we also have a great price to see a flop. hands that have good multiway playability may be better flatted. draws do great multiway and as they hit nuts they have solid capture factor even against strong ranges.

we will be better selecting hands that are profitable squeezes AND have poor 3 way playability. Ax and pocket pairs are the natural choice. but when constructing squeeze ranges always consider how well hands flat 3 way and compare squeezing to that.

all too often people run hands through shove/fold calcualtors and think 'hey squeezing is marginally better than folding - i should 3 bet' without considering that for many hands folding isnt an option anyway and so they should use flatting as their comparison

Dozza

Here is Tom Dwan executing a squeeze play with 9 high

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSqkhN9Rqk0

markycash

Nice to have some general strategy posts like this.

As someone mentioned already I personally feel there doesn't need to be an open raiser as such. If the blinds are getting up and there are some loosey goosey limpers etc I think the same dynamics can apply.

This is something I feel was very relevant on the recent Vegas trip for me and my exit hand might not have been my exit hand if I had taken a squeeze opportunity.

The general dynamics of the hand from my diary thread...

"Busto...

Was in BB with 48cc at 150/300 with 4700. 2 limpers and SB completes. I thought about shoving as I had some fold equity but I had managed to pinch a pot a few hands earlier and 2 of the limpers were in EP. I check and flop is 579 with two clubs giving me flush and straight draws. EP guy bets 1100 into1650 pot and SB makes it 3700. SB is quite aggro and could be light here so I pop my remaining 4400 in and go for the almost treble up and get HU with the SB who has Q9o. I miss everything and it is GG me."
(from memory I think there were 50 chip antes too so about 1650 chips in the middle when it comes to me in the BB).

I did give some reasonably in depth consideration to shoving preflop from the BB here. I sided away from it because 2 of the limpers were in such early position so I was slightly more concerned about their hand strength and the player in the SB had called one of my previous shoves with Q6o. Although the way the table was playing I really didn't have any of them on a 'real hand'.

I opted to take the 'free flop' and ended up getting it in post flop with a reasonable chance at getting an almost treble up and a small amount of room to play. On reflection I think I should have just squeezed preflop here. A lot of flop textures would have meant I had lost any opportunity to get chips from the pot and I was also unlikely to completely nail the flop with my holdings. I feel with the action a lot of pocket pairs could be discounted from the ranges of the other players so even if I was called I would likely be live against hands like AT QKs etc. I think there was a big chance though that I would just have added around 1650 chips to my 4400 stack uncontested.

Another good point that was mentioned above is trying to induce a squeeze. If flatting a raise or limping is going to put a nice amount of chips in the middle that will encourage a lot of 10-25 BB stacks to shove then this can obviously be a valuable play with certain holdings.

hhyftrftdr

Flatting premiums can be a great tactic if there are some aggro players behind or some shoving stacks still lurking.

I tried it with AA vs Ben Dobson last night, and lost to his AQ on a 567r flop Q turn and Q river pulled my pants down.

StayOrGo

Hi, for me a squeeze play, is pretty much as TK said. It's simply when you 3bet (perhaps lighter than normal), after there has been a raise and at least one other caller (preferably two)

I usually size the bet at 2.5 times the initial open raise size, plus 1 times open raise size for each limper.

Ie if blinds are 200/400, and there is an open raise to 1,000 with two callers, I make my bet size 4,500, if only one caller I make it 3,500.

When adopting a squeeze play I take some of the following into consideration:

1) The blinds have to be fairly big to make it worthwhile.

2) I will make this play slightly more often when there are anties.

3) Preferably when in position, although if you feel fairly confident based on the table dynamic that all will fold then OK to do this OOP too.

4) I usually do it against medium stacks (especially close to the bubble), where I have fold equity and can also fold against a 4 bet (ie not priced in to call)

5) I make sure the initial opener is someone who may often open raise and then fold to 3bets

6) I look at the callers and am wary if they are tight players. Quite often the initial raiser will fold but you get resistance from a tight caller, who may have only initially called with a hand like AQ or TT for example and then recognises your play for what it is and 4bets you (often All In depending on stack sizes).

7) Due to stack sizes and hand ranges, you are more likely to get everyone to fold in the mid/late stages of MTT's rather than in cash games, where people call 3bets for fun.

8) If it is a full ring game and there are more than 3 callers, I tend not to do it too light. (too much chance of resistance and/or someone slow playing a monster as a reverse squeeze.

A reverse squeeze as I understand it, is someone just calling with a monster, when there is an aggressive player(s) still to act, who they think will squeeze for them.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head, I will add more if anything else comes to mind (busy multi-tabling atm), so just an initial reaction.

Hope this is of use.

Cheers,

G

devil_tear

Never heard of it.

devil_tear

In Response to Re: Explaining the:

Hi, for me a squeeze play, is pretty much as TK said. It's simply when you 3bet (perhaps lighter than normal), after there has been a raise and at least one other caller (preferably two+) I usually size the bet at 2.5 times the initial open raise size, plus 1 times open raise size for each limper. Ie if blinds are 200/400, and there is an open raise to 1,000 with two callers, I make my bet size 4,500, if only one caller I make it 3,500. When adopting a squeeze play I take some of the following into consideration: 1) The blinds have to be fairly big to make it worthwhile. 2) I will make this play slightly more often when there are anties. 3) Preferably when in position, although if you feel fairly confident based on the table dynamic that all will fold then OK to do this OOP too. 4) I usually do it against medium stacks (especially close to the bubble), where I have fold equity and can also fold against a 4 bet (ie not priced in to call) 5) I make sure the initial opener is someone who may often open raise and then fold to 3bets 6) I look at the callers and am wary if they are tight players. Quite often the initial raiser will fold but you get resistance from a tight caller, who may have only initially called with say with AQ or TT for example and then recognises your play for what it is and 4bets you (often All In depending on stack sizes). Just a few thoughts off the top of my head, I will add more if anything else comes to mind (busy multi-tabling atm), so just an initial reaction. Hope this is of use. Cheers, G
Posted by StayOrGo

+1

RLT16

when squeeze plays go wrong...

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Hardtime	Small blind		15.00	15.00	2515.00
RLT16	Big blind		30.00	45.00	1880.00
	Your hole cards	A Q
LoveChops	Call		30.00	75.00	2230.00
x	Call		30.00	105.00	2140.00
REDARROW61	Fold
dalek_x	Call		30.00	135.00	1400.00
Hardtime	Call		15.00	150.00	2500.00
RLT16	Raise		180.00	330.00	1700.00
LoveChops	Fold
x	Call		180.00	510.00	1960.00
dalek_x	Fold
Hardtime	Call		180.00	690.00	2320.00
Flop
		A 4 4
Hardtime	Check
RLT16	Bet		517.50	1207.50	1182.50
x	Call		517.50	1725.00	1442.50
Hardtime	Fold
Turn
		K
RLT16	All-in		1182.50	2907.50	0.00
x	Call		1182.50	4090.00	260.00
RLT16	Show	A Q
x	Show	4 4
River
		7
x	Win	Four 4s	4090.00		4350.00

55013

When i hear the word Squeeze for some reason i always immediately think of 'Cool For Cats' (pink vinyl if i remember correct), what a flippin' horrible song that was.

MrWh1te

Would you guys say squeeze play can be more effective (or make more over a period of time), during DYM's?

That seems to be my experience of it compared to cash and mtt's, especially when playing against guys on sky where I know the players a lot better than I would on some of the bigger sites.

But sometimes you know, you notice a pattern and then each time you see it, it reinforces the pattern in your mind, even if it is not true

devil_tear

In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play":

Would you guys say squeeze play can be more effective (or make more over a period of time), during DYM's? That seems to be my experience of it compared to cash and mtt's, especially when playing against guys on sky where I know the players a lot better than I would on some of the bigger sites. But sometimes you know, you notice a pattern and then each time you see it, it reinforces the pattern in your mind, even if it is not true
Posted by MrWh1te

Because DYMS are effectively the same as the bubble of an MTT. So you can use the squeeze to leverage your opponents stack and put them in an ugly spot for their dym/mtt life. 

Phantom66

Not recommended for spinup tables.

GELDY

playing live - 12k stacks - last hand of level 1 - 25/50 blinds
utg 225 = 4.5BB
4 callers!
sb puts in a pot size bet of 1225
bb makes it 2975

this is a squeeze squeeze play!

if sb has AKs, what does he do now?

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play":

Not that I am a proper player or anything like that, but we had an interesting example in our PLO8 DYM the other night. If I remember correctly, button was limping almost every pot, I am in the SB unsuited A K 10 4 , I "bumped it up" in a sort of semi bluff squeezeish play only to find you re-raise in the BB . Button folds and after I dwelt a little I folded, and you showed the inevitable AA22 cannot remember but I guess you were at least suited on one side and probably two. You asked if my bet was inspired by the limping of said player and I said yes, adding that in the past I would probably have gambled. You did not say anything further and I was wondering whether I was correct in folding or not ? I think I still had around about 1000 chips left and I am pretty sure I lost a few hands later as the blinds were getting bigger.  Not sure if this is a good example, or even worth posting but thought I would. Yours and anyone else's thoughts would be appreciated Nick
Posted by pompeynic

Hi Nick,

I never responded further as I had too many tables on the go, & besides, I did not want to upset the serial limper or draw too much attention to his play.

Strangely, given how many hands I play every day/week, I recall the hand vividly. When you popped it up, I insta thought "Nick is squeezing the station", lol, but as it happened I had a monster, so my play was a no-brainer. I had assumed you were much much weaker, to be honest. Not sure I could have folded in your spot, but then again, as played, I HAVE to be huge in that spot.

NChanning

 I remember playing in a TV sit n go type thing at least ten years ago. It was one of the first times I'd played with Surinder Sunar and I was very intimidated by him. There was a hand where I think Devilfish raised and I flatted with a pair of eights. Surinder then put in a bi raise with KJ which was considered by Jesse May in the commentary box to be an absolutely incredible move. He talked and talked about how this was world class and had never really been seen on TV. If you ever look back on Late Night Poker which was a few years before this I think he could easily be right. He commented that professionals like Surinder had been getting away with stuff like this for years and this was what marked them out from the crowd and the Fish said I'd call you so fast but I have to worry about him pointing to me, which basically explained the beauty of the play to anyone who hadn't grasped.
 
 It's funny now to think that a 3-bet with KJ was considered super-aggro.

 Barny Boatman loves the call with a big hand hoping someone behind squeezes...he calls it the Sqeezy Pleasy.

 How can anyone not love Cool for Cats? I went to see Chris Difford the other day...he didn't quite fill a church but he played an acoustic guitar and told stories and he was great.

Tikay10

^^^

Ha, agree with "Cool for Cats" & Squeeze (the band) generally, I love them to this day.

In the early days of Squeeze it was a nursery for the greatest of British musical talent. Jools Holland, of course, & even his baby bro, Chris.
 
Also Paul Carrack, once of Roxy Music, & later, Mike & The Mechanics.
 
These days Glenn Tilbrook fronts things up, & he's such a natural talent.   

RICHORFORD

In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play":

when squeeze plays go wrong... Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance Hardtime Small blind   15.00 15.00 2515.00 RLT16 Big blind   30.00 45.00 1880.00   Your hole cards A Q       LoveChops Call   30.00 75.00 2230.00 x Call   30.00 105.00 2140.00 REDARROW61 Fold         dalek_x Call   30.00 135.00 1400.00 Hardtime Call   15.00 150.00 2500.00 RLT16 Raise   180.00 330.00 1700.00 LoveChops Fold         x Call   180.00 510.00 1960.00 dalek_x Fold         Hardtime Call   180.00 690.00 2320.00 Flop     A 4 4       Hardtime Check         RLT16 Bet   517.50 1207.50 1182.50 x Call   517.50 1725.00 1442.50 Hardtime Fold         Turn     K       RLT16 All-in   1182.50 2907.50 0.00 x Call   1182.50 4090.00 260.00 RLT16 Show A Q       x Show 4 4       River     7       x Win Four 4s 4090.00   4350.00
Posted by RLT16

Question:

Is a squeeze play inherently a bluff?

i.e. if, as in the above example from RLT16, you have a premium hand pre-flop, almost certainly the best hand, is 5x-6x' ing it still considered a squeeze play? Or is it simply getting value from your hand and making sure not too many players go to the flop.

You're not necessarily trying to take everyone off the hand in that instance, you'd ideally want a caller or re-raiser if you've got AA, KK etc.

I've always had an association in my mind that when someone 'squeezes' as opposed to simply putting in a big raise, it's because by definition they don't have a hand and are running a bluff in such a way that no-one can call unless they're slow-playing the goods.

?

aussie09

squeeze are superb.  i have seen difford and tilbrook many times too.  they actually have an album called "squeeze play"

my favourite track is this, which talks about glenn tilbrook losing his girlfiend to cancer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNF5w4pP_Eo




 

Mohican

In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play":

when squeeze plays go wrong... Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance Hardtime Small blind   15.00 15.00 2515.00 RLT16 Big blind   30.00 45.00 1880.00   Your hole cards A Q       LoveChops Call   30.00 75.00 2230.00 x Call   30.00 105.00 2140.00 REDARROW61 Fold         dalek_x Call   30.00 135.00 1400.00 Hardtime Call   15.00 150.00 2500.00 RLT16 Raise   180.00 330.00 1700.00 LoveChops Fold         x Call   180.00 510.00 1960.00 dalek_x Fold         Hardtime Call   180.00 690.00 2320.00 Flop     A 4 4       Hardtime Check         RLT16 Bet   517.50 1207.50 1182.50 x Call   517.50 1725.00 1442.50 Hardtime Fold         Turn     K       RLT16 All-in   1182.50 2907.50 0.00 x Call   1182.50 4090.00 260.00 RLT16 Show A Q       x Show 4 4       River     7       x Win Four 4s 4090.00   4350.00
Posted by RLT16

This is not a squeeze play. You've simply raised, with a premium hand, into 3 limpers.

Mohican

In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play":

In Response to Re: Explaining the "Squeeze Play" : Question: Is a squeeze play inherently a bluff? i.e. if, as in the above example from RLT16, you have a premium hand pre-flop, almost certainly the best hand, is 5x-6x' ing it still considered a squeeze play? Or is it simply getting value from your hand and making sure not too many players go to the flop. You're not necessarily trying to take everyone off the hand in that instance, you'd ideally want a caller or re-raiser if you've got AA, KK etc. I've always had an association in my mind that when someone 'squeezes' as opposed to simply putting in a big raise, it's because by definition they don't have a hand and are running a bluff in such a way that no-one can call unless they're slow-playing the goods. ?
Posted by RICHORFORD

Yes,always a bluff IMO. 3 betting with AA into a raise and a call is a standard play that even a new player can see is the correct way to play AA. Try getting a new player to do the same with 7 2 off. You're simply trying to win the money already in the pot and not see a flop.