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PLO8 tournament...
As the PLO8 player pool continues to grow, and the decent numbers turn out for the weekly league games, how about Sky introduce a weekly PLO8 tournament (Say a £500 guarantee), I'm sure the Sharks like MarkyCrash etc would be licking their lips at the prospect 
Comments
Hi Nickkay,
Unusually, there are no reasons why this could not be done - its very simple & could be set up within minutes.
Simples.
But......
£500 Guarantee. At a £22 buy-in, that would need 25 entrants. At £11, that would need 50 entrants. At £5 that would need 100 entrants.
It has been tried in UKOPS before (PLO, too) & has missed it's guarantee every single time.
I'm not against the logic - far from it. I just spent a month in Vegas doing nothing else except play PLO8 & PLO MTT's, at all buy-ins up to $3,000. I LOVE the game.
Whether Sky Poker can regularly sustain a £500 Guarantee PLO8 MTT, however, is another matter.
Open to thoughts & feedback.
PS - How many entrants does the £5.50 PLO8 get on a Thursday night?
Thanks nickkay.
Lets see what others say. We have debated this many times over the last 2 or 3 years, but the facts suggest (mainly from UKOPS) that it would struggle.
I must emphasise that it is NOT a problem to introduce new MTT's. If the logic is good enough, it can be done very quickly & easily.
I'm not against the idea at all, but I don't want to make a fool of myself by getting Sky Poker to do it - & they would if I asked - & then seeing it do a belly flop.
As an example, 'Big O' aka 5 card OH8 is growing in popularity, both online and offline. If Sky threw some 'Big O' cash tables and a sprinkling of MTT's/SNG's into the mix overnight and did not mention much about it... I doubt they would attract much volume at all. In my opinion this is not because the game is not viable but down to the way in which they are implemented. The recent trial of the Headhunter games in a prime slot highlighted this too IMO.
I personally feel that there has to be an overarching appetite on Sky's part to promote OH8 (or any other game that is not part of the current setup) and a solid plan behind that appetite for it to effectively work out. Introducing them without that appetite, and without a plan, is close to a complete waste of time. I am not moaning at Sky here at all. At the end of the day it is their business and up to them to decide where their priorities lay. I am just stating that any introduction deviating from the norm needs a plan behind it IMO.
It therefore is no surprise to me that the UKOPS OH8 games are not meeting their guarantees as there isn't much promotion of the OH8 variant currently. It personally looks to me like the OH8 UKOPS games are added simply to offer more variety in the UKOPS series.
Again all my personal opinion but I feel the OH8 UKOPS games, weekly £500 GTD OH8 games, and sprinkling of other OH8 games, could all very easily meet their guarantees if there was an appetite for this to happen and a plan to make it happen on Sky's side.
Some of the things that might make this work out could be the following...
An amendment to the current rake situation at the OH8 cash tables (it has become clear on the forum lately that the current rake set-up for the split pot game is prohibitive and putting almost, if not all regs, off playing cash games). If this was sorted then it would promote the growth of the OH8 player pool and give Sky some rake rather than close to none.
The rewards freerolls were tweaked to include other variants but PLO8 was still excluded. I know Tikay has a different view to me on this but I feel this is such a critically important area for OH8 player pool growth. I could literally name you dozens of players who have played the game for almost 10 years who started out playing PLO8 rewards freerolls (with no prior experience of the game) on other sites, including myself. Rewards freerolls are the perfect arena for players to try out new games, risk free. This again would swell the player pool.
Something that was very popular on several other sites were daily $1 rebuy PLO8 MTT's. For a buck or a quid people seem prepared to try these out as they could splash more chips around due to the split pot nature of the game. Sure a guarantee would help but if the other stuff was done then these would cruise past a £100 guarantee. One site I was on with a slight larger but comparable OH8 player pool had these running daily with a $500 guarantee for several years. Even when OH8 was generally played less online than it currently is. Again this would swell the player pool.
With just these 3 measures put in place I would seriously be willing to take bets that after a couple of months...
UKOPS OH8 MTT's would smash the current guarantee level.
Traffic and rake revenue from OH8 cash games would rise massively (would be hard for it not to given the current levels).
Any daily OH8 MTT's would hit their guarantees at least a very high percentage of the time. At the very least enough to make them sustainable and profitable from Sky's perspective.
DYM OH8 traffic would at least double from current levels.
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I really would be happy to bet good money on this. It just depends if this is in any way on Sky's list of priorities. It would be hard not to bring in more rake revenue for minimal effort IMO though if this was included in Sky's priorities. These wouldn't even 'need' to be all implemented at once, simply including PLO8 in the rewards freerolls once a week and seeing if OH8 DYM traffic went up at all would be a good start.
Sorry for the book, just something I had given prior thought to.
I understand from Sky's perspective that they may want something more solid than a forum punter pulling numbers out their A**e with nothing to back them up. Implementing any of those measures would be very likely IMO to have a positive affect on rake revenue from the other OH8 revenue streams. I.e. introducing PLO8 into the rewards freeroll program one evening a week would likely impact on OH8 DYM traffic.
It would be quite easy to analyse the data and assess how successful the changes were if the above example were trialed. For example simply by measuring the traffic and doing a statistical test such as a Pearson Product-Moment Correlation Coefficient to see how likely it was that any changes made were the reason for any change in the volume of DYM traffic.
One things is for sure there is at least a healthy base of OH8 players on the site making growth of the OH8 game here a possibility.
Lets make this nice & simple.
Sky Poker have "Hero Panels" on the Home Page which are very valuable tools. They often support it with "push" messages via SMS, e-Mails, & the like.
Some may think these are done randomly. They are not - they are all subject to deep forensic research, more data than you can ever imagine, & "Insight".
Now, given the cost, & value, of these "tools", where should The Business spend their money, & resource?
On NLH related stuff, which, probably, accounts for 95%+ of all Sky Poker Margin. (That number is a pure guess, but probably ball park). In fact, across all sites, what % of Margin generated comes from O8? 1%?
On a relatively obscure side game which, even on sites like 'Stars, has thin liquidity.
How much upside is there v downside?
I know the answer, so do you. It's never THAT clear cut, is it?
But.....
The fact is, the (PLO8 DYM) liquidity is still very thin.
Did you see that thread last night, HERE ?
I was unavailable until 8.30pm last night, & I bet, over the evening, the number of games played was down by a good 30 to 40%. It's not just me, of course - we have 5 or 6 who make up most of the liquidity, & when they go AWOL, traffic drops off a cliff.
I tend to like to play 30 games per session, & then de-reg everything. And then everyone else de-regs, so the games die. (Yes yes, I'm the value....).
Players like Churchy, Eon, Whizzy, Ger, Alexis, Chippy, Marky, Macacgirl (now AWOL again) & you of course all make a difference.
Joddy, Nomad, Chilling, jimjam, Huuuume, Helland, Eddie, these guys tend to come & go.
It seems like quite a list (plus all those I forgot), but it's not many, is it?
Generally speaking, 2 or 3 players will register in advance for EVERY empty PLO8 DYM above £2.25 - Eon, Marky, me & a few others. Without those few hardcore types, the game count definitely drops quickly.
If you peruse the £5, £11 & £16.50 lobby when those guys are around, you will always see them in every lobby, regged for the next game, as they want to keep 5 or 6 games going.
Go back 2 or 3 years, liquidity was less than a tenth of what it is now. Go forward 2 years & who knows what it may be?
We are getting there, & it's good that players are impatient.
It just takes time though.
But to see him sitting there, all alone, in every lobby, with all that cash on the table, sort of scares me, it looks like he might be waiting for an unwary sort like me.
And of course we would have to start "heads up". Err, no ta.
In Response to Re: PLO8 tournament...:
I agree fully. It wouldn't make much sense for Sky to spend like 30% of their budget on a game played by a small % of players.
There do appear to be areas where Sky could assign 0% of the spend though and increase the player pool. For example altering the rake on OH8 cash games to account for the split pot dynamic wouldn't 'cost anything' as nobody is playing them currently. Also if the rewards freerolls are already open to being tweaked and offering different games then it wouldn't cost any extra to assign one of them as PLO8 (I think PLO8 came quite high up the pecking order when there was a poll to see what games people would like to see in the rewards freerolls).From my perspective as someone who personally hopes to see as many OH8 games as possible. I am only considering whether it looks possible for Sky to profitably offer more OH8 games as I would happily play a bunch of them. Obviously if this is the case then Sky gets more £'s and we get more games and everyone is a winner (well apart from those who lose).
Obviously the introduction of more OH8 MTT's is a decision for Sky as to whether it would be profitable or not. Whether they would be profitable or not ‘may’ however depend amongst other things on the above dynamics.
I am actually probably more on the same page as yourself than you think...
If a £1,000 flagship OH8 MTT were to be introduced in the current set up I think it would struggle. I personally think most OH8 MTT introductions would struggle in the current set up. I just don't think this is because the games themselves are not viable but more because of the cash game and freeroll situation and some other dynamics.
I would be surprised however if an evening £1 rebuy £100 GTD PLO8 MTT didn't become very popular even in the current set up. Those games can get rather crazy but are a lot of fun.
I also agree with the comments by Pompey that the OH8 community here is lucky to have you
Some figures that may or may not be of interest...On a relatively obscure side game which, even on sites like 'Stars, has thin liquidity.
How much upside is there v downside?
I know the answer, so do you. It's never THAT clear cut, is it?
PLO8 I think would be about 1% of cash games but slightly higher in MTT's. If PLO is included then between them they have a reasonable share of the pie.
It is smaller amounts for sure. However I am sure we have all heard the 'What do pennies make?' statement
Not sure if these figures show room for maneuver? Most of these are Sky versus Stars comparisons and they are just a snapshot from figures at time of writing. Not hoping for a second that Sky will introduce as many OH8 games as stars, just to compare the percentage of the market PLO/OH8 can have.
Also it is understandable for people to say 'well go play on stars'… I do though! I would just like to play more here as I find Sky a much more enjoyable site than stars.
Figures from about an hour ago which I will leave open to interpretation...
Stars OH8 cash game traffic = 144 out of 13,088 players or about 1.1% of the player pool.
Sky OH8 cash game traffic = 0 out of 513 players - 0% of player pool.
Stars PLO cash game traffic = 1364 out of 13,088 players or about 10.4% of the player pool.
Sky PLO cash game traffic = 13 out of 513 players or about 2.5% of the player pool.
Considering the 97 regular MTT's running on stars an hour ago the share of the market by game variant between NLHE, PLO, OH8/PLO8 was... 81 NLHE (83.5%), 11 PLO8 (11.35%) & 5 PLO (5.15%).
No-one joins, then the NL games I am waiting in fill up quick and I have to leave the plo lobby as I cant play too many at a time whilst I am with my daughter.
I would love to play more, but during the day (its half term for me), next to nothing runs, and evenings I am often too busy elsewhere
I get your point on the forum opinions but the question was asked on the forum.
Meeting a 100 player guarantee really isn't the barometer of success for OH8 MTT's IMO. I have had many a buy in returned on stars because tourneys haven't had the minimum 3 or 5 players to start. The £100 one I mentioned was a rebuy that has worked on several small-medium sites.
Hopeful but realistic expectations for OH8 would probably be getting a couple of nightly MTT's to hit a 20-25 player buy in and maybe a slightly bigger weekend one. I don't think that is setting the bar ridiculously high?
Completely agree about the players helping generate interest. I have successfully encouraged 1 player to start playing the OH8 games semi-regularly and know another 2 who should be showing up in the next month or two. I haven't mentioned the site to all that many OH8 players I know yet but I will and hopefully can encourage a few more to try the site out.
Regarding the player base... I think considering the size of the site and that the cash games don't start much/at all due to the rake and that there aren't many MTT's, the player base here seems exceptional (not by NLHE standards obviously). The weekly leagues have a decent turn out and the DYM traffic has seemed reasonable even during the summer months.