You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
Comments
I only mentioned flagship as there had been talk about a bigger weekend tourney akin to the roller.
A small rebuy turbo or 10er at a nice time slot with a tiny guarantee would be a great start. The ones without a guarantee seem harder to get going, even a 10 player guarantee would be a start.
If we get together and run one of them again, that would get numbers playing (Tikay, did games start easier when it ran last time?)
We could combine it with a nightly plo tourney, say maybe best 10 finishes in 30 days or something?
https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum%3adf77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion%3ac20071be-f825-4a47-b3c3-f6e5a40b4c13
Full details of the league can be found here...
https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum%3adf77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion%3a0da527b0-4886-4895-b366-f9423d5b23c1
I'll try & answer some of these, in no particular order.
Bear in mind we have had this exact debate on numerous occasions - & that's good, I rather like the idea of players making things happen, or trying to.
Also please remember that personally, for me, they can bin all NLH stuff & become 100% PLO8 & PLO. But it does not work like that, does it?
So I'm just trying to be Devils Advocate here, & try to explain how The Business might see it. I've not actually asked them (yet?), but I have a fair idea of their general Business Model, & the direction they want Sky Poker to go.
It's barely 3 years ago there was almost zero liquidity in these PLO8 DYM's. Together, we, the players, built it. We never asked Sky for help, we just went & did it.
For every action there is a reaction, though. At the time there was some liquidity in PLO DYM's, but the upsurge in the PLO8 version completely killed the PLO jobbies.
If I'm not mistaken, Ger, at the time, only played PLO, but was almost forced to move across to O8 to find enough games.
My Bucket List includes trying to rev up the PLO DYM's, too, something I have been meaning to do for some time. And we COULD, very easily. Right now though, all we would probably achieve is split the healthy liquidity in the O8 version, & so we'd be, in some ways, worse off.
Its also worth noting that it is very hard indeed - almost impossible - to multi-table PLO & PLO8 at the same time. So it's not like we could do both on the same sessions, we'd need to start with dedicated PLO nights.
Sky Poker was a new start up, not part of a Network, so it's harder than it might look to grow it in a sustainable manner. It's going along very nicely though, far better in relative terms than any other site.
The idea of Turbo PLO8 DYM's has a lot going for it. Not my cup of tea, but that misses the point.
One of the problems with regular PLO8 DYM's is they take so long to complete, far longer than any other format. The early levels, in truth, don't add much to them really. So people who are chasing weekly Reward or Promo points are far worse off playing PLO8, as their capacity to earn points is much reduced. Several ex-regulars abandoned them for exactly that reason. If the liquidity was exclusively Turbo, I reckon most of us would earn twice as many Reward Points as we do now.
The Business would, I reckon, prefer it too. Why? Well if you were Sky Poker, would you prefer players to play regular DYM's that lasts up to 40 minutes, or Turbos that lasts (say) 20 minutes? It's a no-brainer - more games would run = more reg fees earned.
The downside, of course, is that the current liquidity would be divided amongst 2 formats instead of one. So less liquidity (initially).
I'm really torn on this, mainly for selfish reasons I suppose, but I think I ought to suggest it to Upstairs, & then it'll be up to them.
As far as I am aware, there are no software limitations that would prevent Sky Poker offering PLO8 Turbo DYM's.
Anyone else have any views on Turbo Wurbo PLO8 DYM's?
PLO8 MTT's generally.
Again, there are no technical or software reasons why new/different/additional PLO8 MTT's could not be added to the schedule. Quite simply, we ask the Suits, & if they approve, that's it, job done.
Whether they would stand the risk of optimistic guarantees is another matter - they try to manage "subsidy" (overlay etc) with some care, as it is effectively setting fire to money. Every time there is a £1,000 overlay, that means The Business has to earn an extra £1,000 just to get back where it started, or another £2,000 to remain on target.
Right now, the Suits are putting the finishing touches to the new, overall MTT schedule. As we know, 98% or more of that is for NLH, so the priority is always going to be there, & quite right too.
I do think a £1 rebuy might be popular, but 1) it would not play "properly", & 2) I'm not convinced it makes much business sense. The Business would earn 10p per player (assuming rebuys not raked), or 10 per rebuy if they were raked, but that'd not go down well with the players. And of course they go on for ever. Years ago, it used to be possible to play PLO8 SNG's in Vegas, but they had to stop them, as they went on for hours & hours, so they were a terrible proposition for the Room. They could use the table/dealer/chips etc far more economically by offering Turbo NLH affairs.
A weekly "Big One" might work, don't disagree with that. Personally, I'd not ask The Business for a Guarantee though - I'd let the players build the liquidity first.
I used the same comparison - Sky Poker v 'Stars, simply because there is almost no liquidity in PLO8 on any other site, especially in SNG's.
In fact I'm pretty sure that the bulk of Liquidity in O8 on 'Stars is in NL08, which has become exceedingly popular in the last year or two. I'd rather stick needles in my eye than play NL08, to me it's an ugly child of beautiful parentage & should have been flushed down the toilet at birth. That's just my view though, which is out of step with the modern game.
I'm not sure Sky Poker do re-entry Tourneys, though I may be wrong.
Did you mean rebuys, &/or rebuys with add-ons?
What price point would you suggest?
Due to the nature of PLO & PLO8, I personally think a LIMITED rebuy works best - say, one rebuy + an add-on.
Unlimited rebuys totally killed "Live" PLO Tournaments some years ago, as folks just punted, pot pot pot with any 4.
It really is THE most dreadful game. Whoever invented it should be shot, preferably with a blunt knife. IMO, of course.
While we are at it, I'd ban all NLH, too, & make them play Pot Limit Hold Em. Proper game that.
Not totally against it Mark, but when PLO was added to the rota, quite a few of the NLH boys (who contribute the vast majority of Margin) got a bit cross. And Sky Poker want those Freerolls to be well populated.
Of those who play the Freerolls regularly, I reckon 95% would be completely at sea playing O8. Some folks take those Freerolls very seriously, too, so we need to tread carefully if moving away from the staple diet of NLH. You & I would love them, of course but we are a pair of oddbods.
Reduce the rake on 08 cash games? I just don't think it'll happen. Not saying it would not help, not at all, but I just cant see the Business going for it. The upside I can see, yes - make Sky Poker the home of O8 cash maybe - but there are more cons than pros I think. For starters, all the site T & C's would have to be changed, as the current rake levels are deeply embedded in them.
You & me & the rest of the O8 crew would love to see it, but The Business has to keep a sharp focus on where the real traffic is. And it won't ever be O8, here or elsewhere.
My first reaction is positive as it seems a case of more games, better rewards and a better chance to make more of an impact in rake based promos.
The reality is a little different though. I played tens of thousands of regular OH8 SNG's on stars before they started to introduce more and more turbo and hyper turbo OH8 games. I was unsure how this would affect ROI's and liquidity from the regular games etc. The result was a slow and steady shift away from the regular paced games until the regular paced games almost died off.
I would be surprised if the same sort of thing did not happen to the OH8 DYM games if they were introduced.
Does that mean I would say they are a 'bad idea'? Well, no. It depends on your perspective. For the site it would undoubtedly be a good move as more games would start. For people chasing rewards or taking part in rake races they would be a big positive. There definitely is not the same edge in turbos as in regular games though and this is even more the case in hypers.
Basically if I was just thinking of myself I would bin this idea but to be perfectly honest they probably would suit more people than they wouldn't and would probably be a big plus for Sky.
^^^^
Great post.
Quicker, more popular, but less or no edge. An awkward dilemma if ever I saw one.
I think the point about the players here taking them seriously and getting cross with the PLO changes is key though. It was always that way on the other site so people were used to that set up. The same as people here are probably very used to them being NLHE and used to this set up. So yeah although I personally thought the other model was good and it got me and so many others into other game variants, I can see why it might be hard to work a similar rewards program here.
So I will eat humble pie and concede to your wisdom on this one
I would maintain that if a way to let people try other game variants freely at little/no cost to Sky existed then it would be likely to make a very surprising difference to OH8 DYM and MTT traffic. What this way would be I am not sure, maybe something in the £20 10 pts buy in 'freerolls', maybe something entirely new so as not to upset the existing players or maybe it just is a 'no goer'.
I do think the League Churchy runs and your and other regs efforts to put the volume in really helps promote the game here. Just frustrating that MTT & cash traffic for OH8 doesn't mirror the SNG traffic.
I guess if we can think of ways to bump up traffic ourselves then Sky may be more willing to alot a small part of that spend in the OH8 direction if the players make up a slightly bigger % of the overall pool.
As a player, that's my idea of Heaven. (Except Friday, obv, when I'd throw a sickie).
Sadly, it ain't ever gonna happen here, if truth be told, or not in my lifetime.
Agree with the above not keen on unlimited rebuys bit annoying when you get a madman just raising everyhand busting and repeating(unless your the one busting him) limiting it makes it more like a normal game.
Think sky could add a couple of cheap rebuys like the other site it has dailly $500 dollar rebuys that make the gtd day after day not suggesting sky put a game like that on but a couple of cheap rebuys it would maybe get some more people playing them but feel the scheduling could maybe also be changed a wee bit just my opinion other will probably feel it is fine as is.
There is some higher stakes players willing to play but the games/money on offer is not worth it to them as you have said yourself tikay if there was better money on offer in the games you would also give them a go but you dont want to play for 2 hours for £14-£18 in the £1.10 games.
Look at the thursday night games the £100 gtd £5.50 game gets about 30 runners give or take most weeks on what is probably the busiest night for pl08 on sky and the £150gtd £2.20 buy in has never met its gtd with between 50/65 runners most weeks and sky give in the region of £120 in prizes and then there is about £200 of overlay on the £150 gtd game over the month so they are willing to try and help build the game But then it is down to the players to make up the numbers and play the games rather than just say we will.
As for a weekly game i would probably have it £11/£22max buy in with 1 rebuy (max2) no addons structured like the 8.40 fosp game tonight but have a hour late reg starting about 7.30/8pm but have some sats available during the week(if possible have them set so people cant just take the cash and must play the target event) and maybe a few all in sats on the night of the game probably a sunday night i would say or on the thursdy night when there is a lot of people already playing the other fosp games.
Having a big monthly game is harder as will anyone play a higher stake like a £33game set the same as above would that get any more than 10 players would it even get 10 players? would need plenty of sats and a bit of promoting
Could also use the thursday night games too help as well by swapping the current weekly prize for entry too that game if it is a £11 buy in or if a monthly £33 game the 2 monthly winners could be put in that instead of a £33 b/hunter which they get just now .
also sky could push the thursday night games on the facbook page.
just a few thoughts good luck all
PLO $5.50 buyin, $500 guaranteed. Re-entry. 90 buyins. Missed guarantee.
PLO8 $1.10 buyin. $500 guaranteed. Rebuy. 165 entries, 283 rebuys, 107 addons. Missed guarantee.
These have been running a while and always make losses.
If they cant generate traffic, we have very little hope of doing so.