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Crikey.....
I thought I outlined the situation fairly & honestly yesterday. Try again.....
The matter is not cost related, & I never said it was. We could debate whether it is cost effective - a different thing altogether - but it's not easy, as the perceived benefits are intangible & cannot be measured accurately.
Dublin was great fun, yes, but Sky Poker received more complaints about that particular event than any other SPT, as alcohol was not permitted in the card room, which upset a goodly few.
We looked after Oynutter & his Lady partner, as I recall, he had been unwell for some time.
Rather fittingly, as it was his original home town, Thewy won it, & Aussie (Rob) was 12th.
You may have assumed it was a "loss leader" but I never stated it was a loss leader or made any such assumption.
£220 entry, 500 runners & £10,000 in reg fees? Again, I never said it was a decision based on cost, or was a loss leader, but the numbers you quote are slightly awry.
It was £110 entry, not £220, had 205 entries, not 500, & so, in theory, Reg fees totalled £2,050, not £10,000.
In fact, 40 seats were allocated to the venue, so Sky Poker received no reg fee on those, & (approx) 20 seats were given away in Freerolls. So the income to Sky Poker was in the region of £1,450, minus the cost of the seats given away. That is rather less than the figure of £10,000 you suggest. The Venue charged Sky Poker £10 per entrant (10% reg fee) , so Sky Poker never saw a penny of the Reg Fees paid by Sky Poker players, it all went to the venue, therefore the income to Sky Poker, after allowing for Freebies, was negative.
So it would most certainly have cost Sky Poker a good few bob, however, as I have stated repeatedly, the SPT decisions are not cost related, it's more about acceptable venues, strategic decisions, resource, & on balance, how best Sky Poker look after their players & "Community".
It's my view that the way players are looked after in Las Vegas & Punta Cana, & on this Forum (Free to Enter Fun Comps - we ran them daily during UKOPS for example, Daily UKOPS Blogs etc) suggests to me Sky Poker do value their players greatly, even though you may disagree. I don't know any other Online Poker sites that do these things, do you?
I have tried to explain in great detail in my previous replies why Sky Poker have chosen, for the past few years, not to run SPT's. If they were so minded, I daresay they could & would. "Amateurs" could arrange it, I could arrange it, Sky Poker could if they so wished but we all have different agenda's, don't you see?
Sky Poker have managed something like 40 "Live Events" for their players (MasterClass, SPUKT, SPT, UKPC, VLV & Punta Cana) & I like to think have done them rather well. So well in fact that the players continually hanker for more, which tends to support that view. The Business, however, is best placed to decide how they look after players. At present, it is clearly their view that they do it in other ways.
As I stated before, the book is not closed on SPT's, they may or may not return.
I get that they are popular, just as rake free poker be popular, but that would not necessarily make it a good business case, would it?
Some of my frustration (& I'm sorry if it is visible in my replies) comes from seeing figures quoted which are wrong by 85% Paul, some of it that no matter how many times I repeat "it is not a cost based decision or a loss leader" people keep referring to the cost.
When you say it is a shame that it looks likely SPT's won't be resurrected, where did you get that info from? I explained earlier in the thread, they almost re-started earlier this year, & I think I shared that with you at the time.
They may, or may not return. I stated yesterday that I'd bet that Sky Poker will do something in the Live arena (apart from VLV & Punta Cana) quite soon, & I stick by that. I also detailed with great honesty what Sky Poker had been looking at doing. I sent them my views, then Punta Cana & UKOPS came along, so I really don't know what Sky Poker decided to do in the end. I suspect they still have plans to get back in the Live arena.
"Much more recently - in September & October in fact - I was tasked with helping to find an Event for early Spring. I submitted a lengthy Report, & there was not a suitable UK venue, none that was acceptable. My report included 14 chains or Casinos in England, Wales & Ireland. Note that in Northern Ireland & the RoI, Live Poker is "un-regulated" & Sky Poker have some discomfort around that."
Sky Poker don't really want to send players to "competitor sites" either.
First up, I forgot to inquire if your health has improved since Punta Cana, where you were most unwell. FWIW, upon returning home I seemed to have contracted exactly the same thing, & I've been more unwell since Punta Cana than at any time in my entire life. I've not visited a GP or hospital since I was at school, or had a day off work "sick" in my entire working life - 54 years - but even I was nearly forced to seek medical help last week.
Anyway, I digress.
We shall have to agree to differ on "unthinkable & "unforgiveable" as to Live UK Events. The current business model continues to deliver robust growth.
I'd also disagree on "lack of vision & foresight" compared to our Competitors as not a single one of them can match the continued y-o-y growth (in a declining or flat market) of Sky Poker.
As to partnering a "Live" Casino, SB&G have their own Casino, & it is producing excellent results & y-o-y growth. It also needs to be borne in mind that when partnering with another Business, Sky Poker have to trust that Business to make good decisions, & be compliant in every way. Compliance is a huge factor these days.
So I'll ask you a question now, as you have a sound knowledge of Business.
In all this debate which seems to suggest this Business lacks vision, foresight, etc etc can you name a single mature Business in this sector - or any sector actually - which is producing the y-o-y growth that SB&G have?
I'm not giving away any secrets here - google is your friend - but SBG's revenues last year increased by 51%.
"Sky Betting & Gaming, the Leeds-based independent online gambling firm, has experienced continued growth across all divisions as it published its full year results for the year ending 30 June 2016.
During this period, the online betting and gaming operator saw group revenues hit £373.6m, which is a 51% increase from last year’s £247.5m.
This significant growth in revenue was spearheaded by SB&G’s sports betting revenue rising 64% to £214.1m. The firm’s gaming revenue also saw a 36% increase to £159.5m.In addition, SB&G managed to attract 31% more customers than last year as it now serves 1.95 million people. As a result, SB&G has now expanded its staff to a 818-strong team...."
(Actually, that 818 is now in excess of 1,000).
You can see that quote in full HERE
As you well know, any new, small or start up can increase revenues by 51%, but in a mature, 12 year old business, not so much. It follows revenue growth which averaged 42% in each of the previous 4 years.
Can you name any other Online Gaming Site which can match that?
If we break out poker, the revenue growth is less, (the market is not growing) but it has still grown every year for the past 4 or 5 years, despite some well documented handicaps.
So I have to reject "lack of vision", "lack of foresight", "unthinkable" or the desperate need to find a strategic partner, unless at the right time & on the right terms. SB&G are in the driving seat, not the competitors, as youll know if you read the Trade Press. Other businesses would like to partner SB&G, yes, & 3 well known UK facing Online Poker sites have approached Sky Poker to be part of the Sky Poker platform, on a B2B basis. (all were rejected).
Many of us - perhaps me included? - don't agree with some decisions, such as SPT's, but I don't think anyone can reasonably correlate that to SB&G lacking foresight or simply don't know what they are doing. That's almost like armchair football fans saying, for example, Arsene Wenger or Jose Mourinho have no idea what they are doing.
I doubt you & I will have a meeting of minds on this, but if you say things like "lack of vision" I'm going to have to respond.
I can think of several venues where Sky Poker could go.
For example, Rendezvous, Brighton, but it's at an extremity of the UK, can you imagine the howls of protest from those up North, or in Scotland?
SPT's & Live Events DO remain on the Table, as I have stated repeatedly.
xx
And he kept folding, but eventually I lost the lot. I'm actually the world's worst HU player, so I generally lose anyway. I just did it quicker last night.
We held an SPT at Rendezvous Brighton, but were forced to balance it with one in Glasgow the same day. So the folks in middle England gave us grief even for that.
Peeps remember the good times we had - & we did - but forget the moans & groans we got every single time we announced an SPT Venue. Without a single exception, every time a new SPT venue was announced, the Forum was inundated with complaints.
The people in Ireland gave us grief for years as we had never held an event there, but when we did, all those in Mainland UK went off on one, "that's not fair, it is too far". Welcome to First World problems.
I kid you not.
[QUOTE]New super casino opening in Leeds late 2016/early 2017, biggest casino north of Birmingham and Global Gaming Ventures (?) are behind it. I believe the cash games start from 2 shillings 5 shillings, with a maximum sit down of a penny farthing.
Posted by hhyftrftdr
Sounds about right for Leeds.
And in case some doubt it, I loved the SPT's to bits.
Sky Poker, & as long as I remain here, me, will continue to try to do the impossible - please as many as possible.
get well soon as they say.
I feel you have answered my question, and I am very pleased with everyone's input...
this is where I feel Sky have one over the other sites.
Until the next SPT or Sky live event I shall just have to cash in some tourneys and use
that as a buy in , ( as I told Lyonsbob to do with his great Sunday result .)
I don't have a clue how you'd do it with all the restraints tbh or if it's even possible, but it would be great to have a few UK live events from Sky if is it pssible. I'll eagerly await word that one of those live events Tikay mentioned does go ahead and until then will have to give it a bash for Punta/VLV