In Response to Re: Difficult DYM situation... call, fold or shove? : wait for me to act first so i can shove? remember raising and seeing everyone fold is always more fun to a psycho big stack when you know you have the potential to make everyone fold than calling a shove where you know you have to suck out. Posted by BlackFish3
uv lost me a little bit there,..if you knew he had AA KK QQ....you wouldnt shove?right? so i cant see a shove would be right,uv already said he likes knokkin peeps out,so chances are he'll call anyway..no matter what he has..personally i think suited KJ has such potential that a call in this position isnt as bad as it seems..sure ull be another 200 chips light if u dont hit...but your still in...lol,but hey,im bustin out all over the place,so im probly wrong..
In Response to Re: Difficult DYM situation... call, fold or shove? : uv lost me a little bit there,..if you knew he had AA KK QQ....you wouldnt shove?right? so i cant see a shove would be right,uv already said he likes knokkin peeps out,so chances are he'll call anyway..no matter what he has..personally i think suited KJ has such potential that a call in this position isnt as bad as it seems..sure ull be another 200 chips light if u dont hit...but your still in...lol,but hey,im bustin out all over the place,so im probly wrong.. Posted by philmenow
you've misunderstood me! i think he has a very wide range not a very tight range. i think the shove is the worst play because i know he's not folding. So its call or fold for me personally.
Personally, I'm not as opposed to calling pre-flop as many other people seem to be (but I am a station). You need to beat two of the other players to be able to cash. Assuming that the big-stack is comfortable, of the 3 other players you will be competing with, one has 2570 chips and the other two have 2905 between them (if my calculations are correct). They will all get opportunities to get their chips in first against you, assuming that the big stack hasn't already made a move. You will not have that luxury. The big stack, who you seem to indicate has a wide calling range, is directly on your left so there is not so much advantage to waiting for a spot to shove where you can be confident that you are unlikely to be called.
In this particular hand, you say that a shove pre-flop is likely to get called so this would seem to rule out a pre-flop shove since you can't really expect to be in good shape against a min-raise UTG. You might consider the "stop and go" move. Post flop there will be 900 in the pot and you can shove 1280 more on the flop so you can get him off hands that haven't hit and small pairs where there are multiple overcards. This is obviously a high risk strategy that could go badly wrong but there are quite a few flops that you will connect with in some way.
I'd also consider how close we are to the blinds going up. We have 6bb at this level but only 4bb at the next level. If the next level is near then there is more incentive to play this hand since shoves for 4bb are likely to get called fairly light.
On balance, I think I fold but I think that it is a very tight decision based on your expectation of finding spots to make open shoves and the likelihood of getting them through on later hands. Remember that you will almost certainly need to get several shoves through to be able to cash.
Lastly, although this thread may be more suited to the Poker Strategy section, it is rather churlish of people to object strongly to it being placed here. This thread is at least about poker which cannot be said for several other threads which people have not made similar comments on.
In Response to Re: Difficult DYM situation... call, fold or shove? : oh thank you so much for that. I guess you didnt see the other posts offering advice on the hand? Would it have really been discussed as much in the poker strategy section? i highly doubt it... but once again thanks. Posted by BlackFish3
We have a section called Poker Strategy. I look in that section every day I am online, which is most days, and so do many other people. It would be best if that section was used for what it is meant for; questions, discussion and advice on poker strategy. if you post a hand in there and you dont feel that it is getting a good response then by all means make a post in this section saying that you have put a hand in the strategy section and you would appreciate comments about it. I'm not giving advice on this hand because I do not believe I have the skills and experience to do so....yet. However, I love to read through the posts in the strategy section as a learning experience and I'll continue to do so. I may even make comments but usually those comments will be more in the form of questions about your thoughta and actions rather than advice. Food for thought is always helpful.I'm not trying to attack you. Good luck at the tables.
i think this was a good post and very thought prevoking, yes it should have gone in the other section, but i agree with blackfish ,you dont always get the response there you are looking for. as for the webby thing, there is previous here i presume, but why carry it on webby, at best your comments are inflammatory at worst rude. looking back at your last 10 posts on the forum i can see a pattern. like i said before(which you didnt respond to) i am not "getting on your case" . i just find some of your posts destructive.
i think this was a good post and very thought prevoking, yes it should have gone in the other section, but i agree with blackfish ,you dont always get the response there you are looking for. as for the webby thing, there is previous here i presume, but why carry it on webby, at best your comments are inflammatory at worst rude. looking back at your last 10 posts on the forum i can see a pattern. like i said before(which you didnt respond to) i am not "getting on your case" . i just find some of your posts destructive. Posted by pod1
Webby has a confrontational style. That is his M O and it is very entertaining. I don't believe he steps over the line into gratuitous abuse. He says what he means and he means what he says. No problem as far as I can see.
I say shove imo. I think the key here is you are down to 6BB and there are still 5 players left not 4. You need to shove now or in the next few hands. I know you may find a better position but are you going to get a better hand to shove with? If the chip leader is playing as loose as you say, he is going to call you when you do shove anyway. What are you gaining by waiting to put your money in ahead if you think he is going to call you with any two? I don't play too many DYM but it just looks like the time to make a move.
I prefer to shove KJss rather than a weak ace simply because you've got a much better flush and straight potential, and unless you hoping for the miracle AA or two knockouts to come in the next orbit your not going to see much better.. If theres 4 people left I'd be more inclined to fold, but with 5 you can't really afford to wait since your gonna be bullied every blind anyway. + if big stack folds to your shove (it could happen) hes gonna be a bit more cautious next time he min raises a shortie from early pos.
Blackfish, you need to learn some life skills along with poker skills m8 Webby bit (bet) into you and you only called. Either dont bite (fold) or go all in (call his bluff) Your playing right into his hands Posted by torryboy
1. thanks... 2. why not call and let him keep bluffing so i get maximum value... to continue your strange metaphor.
"Lastly, although this thread may be more suited to the Poker Strategy section, it is rather churlish of people to object strongly to it being placed here. This thread is at least about poker which cannot be said for several other threads which people have not made similar comments on."
In Response to Re: Difficult DYM situation... call, fold or shove? : 1. thanks... 2. why not call and let him keep bluffing so i get maximum value... to continue your strange metaphor. Posted by BlackFish3
Comments
Personally, I'm not as opposed to calling pre-flop as many other people seem to be (but I am a station).
You need to beat two of the other players to be able to cash. Assuming that the big-stack is comfortable, of the 3 other players you will be competing with, one has 2570 chips and the other two have 2905 between them (if my calculations are correct). They will all get opportunities to get their chips in first against you, assuming that the big stack hasn't already made a move. You will not have that luxury.
The big stack, who you seem to indicate has a wide calling range, is directly on your left so there is not so much advantage to waiting for a spot to shove where you can be confident that you are unlikely to be called.
In this particular hand, you say that a shove pre-flop is likely to get called so this would seem to rule out a pre-flop shove since you can't really expect to be in good shape against a min-raise UTG.
You might consider the "stop and go" move. Post flop there will be 900 in the pot and you can shove 1280 more on the flop so you can get him off hands that haven't hit and small pairs where there are multiple overcards. This is obviously a high risk strategy that could go badly wrong but there are quite a few flops that you will connect with in some way.
I'd also consider how close we are to the blinds going up. We have 6bb at this level but only 4bb at the next level. If the next level is near then there is more incentive to play this hand since shoves for 4bb are likely to get called fairly light.
On balance, I think I fold but I think that it is a very tight decision based on your expectation of finding spots to make open shoves and the likelihood of getting them through on later hands. Remember that you will almost certainly need to get several shoves through to be able to cash.
Lastly, although this thread may be more suited to the Poker Strategy section, it is rather churlish of people to object strongly to it being placed here.
This thread is at least about poker which cannot be said for several other threads which people have not made similar comments on.
Webby bit (bet) into you and you only called. Either dont bite (fold) or go all in (call his bluff)
Your playing right into his hands
I say shove imo. I think the key here is you are down to 6BB and there are still 5 players left not 4. You need to shove now or in the next few hands. I know you may find a better position but are you going to get a better hand to shove with? If the chip leader is playing as loose as you say, he is going to call you when you do shove anyway. What are you gaining by waiting to put your money in ahead if you think he is going to call you with any two? I don't play too many DYM but it just looks like the time to make a move.
I prefer to shove KJss rather than a weak ace simply because you've got a much better flush and straight potential, and unless you hoping for the miracle AA or two knockouts to come in the next orbit your not going to see much better.. If theres 4 people left I'd be more inclined to fold, but with 5 you can't really afford to wait since your gonna be bullied every blind anyway. + if big stack folds to your shove (it could happen) hes gonna be a bit more cautious next time he min raises a shortie from early pos.
2. why not call and let him keep bluffing so i get maximum value... to continue your strange metaphor.
MereNovice said.....
"Lastly, although this thread may be more suited to the Poker Strategy section, it is rather churlish of people to object strongly to it being placed here.
This thread is at least about poker which cannot be said for several other threads which people have not made similar comments on."
Needs more love, imo!