KK, Call or Fold

beaneh · February 2010

In Response to Re: KK, Call or Fold:

typhoon please post the rest of the hand
Posted by webby234

So if he loses against 64o he should have folded, but it's the right call if the guy has AA and we hit a K?

Results do not matter, just the reasoning behind the play you make at the stage of the hand the OP has given.

This is a call, try to understand why rather than saying

'I know nothing, I'd fold'

'You're wrong, it's an easy fold'

'he might have aa'

webby234 · February 2010

ok my reasoning for the fold is simple, hes playing at micro stakes for a reason, the £4 for all we know could mean an awful to him and why chance it 4 handed aipf? its probably nothing more than a drop in ocean for him but its not a call hes gonna make lightly, i dont play cash or lower stakes so i have no idea how good the players are but i am assuming they are good players and not gonna throw good money away. i wouldnt think you see this very often, 4 players all in pre flop with about 12 quid in the middle? beaneh i think you would call a deaf dog lol

beaneh · February 2010

In Response to Re: KK, Call or Fold:

ok my reasoning for the fold is simple, hes playing at micro stakes for a reason, the £4 for all we know could mean an awful to him and why chance it 4 handed aipf? its probably nothing more than a drop in ocean for him but its not a call hes gonna make lightly, i dont play cash or lower stakes so i have no idea how good the players are but i am assuming they are good players and not gonna throw good money away. i wouldnt think you see this very often, 4 players all in pre flop with about 12 quid in the middle? beaneh i think you would call a deaf dog lol
Posted by webby234

Ok forget that it is for money and that £4 is a months living in Thailand.

Think about this. We have the second best hand in history!!! YAY

We MUST be ahead of someone (or at least drawing if its AA, AA and KK ai already).

Tbh Sky took away my fold button years ago but that's not the point.

We have a King and a King, going all in is a must here. The more people in the pot 'the lower our equity is' but we will still be a relatively big favourite and this is cash where we want to get our money in ahead.

KnackersYa · February 2010

In Response to Re: KK, Call or Fold:

ok my reasoning for the fold is simple, hes playing at micro stakes for a reason, the £4 for all we know could mean an awful to him and why chance it 4 handed aipf? its probably nothing more than a drop in ocean for him but its not a call hes gonna make lightly, i dont play cash or lower stakes so i have no idea how good the players are but i am assuming they are good players and not gonna throw good money away. i wouldnt think you see this very often, 4 players all in pre flop with about 12 quid in the middle? beaneh i think you would call a deaf dog lol
Posted by webby234

Don't get me wrong, it's not a call that we make whilst cackling insanely and waving our middle finger at the screen. It's one of those that we make while sayng "No AA, pleeeeaaaaase no AA!". We still make it though....

Personally I hate getting all my chips in pre-flop, (even with AA). In this situation though, I'm willing to take the risk.

beaneh · February 2010

In Response to Re: KK, Call or Fold:

In Response to Re: KK, Call or Fold : Don't get me wrong, it's not a call that we make whilst cackling insanely and waving our middle finger at the screen. It's one of those that we make while sayng "No AA, pleeeeaaaaase no AA!". We still make it though.... Personally I hate getting all my chips in pre-flop, (even with AA). In this situation though, I'm willing to take the risk.
Posted by KnackersYa

I would be cackling, doing a little dance and already spending the winnings in my head.

Action_Dan · February 2010

In Response to Re: KK, Call or Fold:

ok my reasoning for the fold is simple, hes playing at micro stakes for a reason, the £4 for all we know could mean an awful to him and why chance it 4 handed aipf? its probably nothing more than a drop in ocean for him but its not a call hes gonna make lightly, i dont play cash or lower stakes so i have no idea how good the players are but i am assuming they are good players and not gonna throw good money away. i wouldnt think you see this very often, 4 players all in pre flop with about 12 quid in the middle? beaneh i think you would call a deaf dog lol
Posted by webby234

...so don't dismiss the opinion/advice of those who do! In cash, at these levels, it's an instant call regardless of the outcome!

NColley · February 2010

Call expect to see J10, 44, and QQ here.

-Typhoon- · February 2010

In Response to Re: KK, Call or Fold:

The correct play in these situations is to raise your left hand in the air, start vigorously pumping the air with your right arm and then quickly hit the call button before all that fist pumping makes you miss your go. Never fold. Ever.
Posted by beaneh

PMSL.... spot on beaneh.

WOW, thanks for the response guys, it certainly opened the gates of debate. As stated, I had only been seated for 20 mins, so no previous info to go on..

As I was on the button, I could see most of action prior to me having to make any decision, Nightshado was indeed short stacked and only called the BB, so I didn’t put him on anything. Next played folded, followed by ptye’s BB call. Again, no alarm bells.

At this point I don’t want anyone else in the pot, so I have to raise big enough to thin the field, with the hope of getting at least 1 caller. I initially meant to raise to 50p, but had problem with the slider.

Following this, Daz folds, but to my horror, griff goes all in, which has me well covered, should I call. A fold from joe. At which point I’m still don’t know what I’m going to do, then Nightshado calls. My thoughts at this time are Nighshado’s actions are irrelevant and play no part in the decision process. But pyte also calls in. Now my priority changes. Although I’m thinking griff is the only one I should be worrying about, I feel at a the very min, he’s paired or on A with a big kicker.

However, because of the size of the pot I felt I had no choice but to call, simply for the value. I knew at worst I could be in second place, with the potential to improve.

There’s a lot of debate about the stakes, but had I been calling with £30 rather than £3.08, I would still have to make the call, purely because of the value.

I know its a bit late now, sorry for posting the names.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
daz69	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£10.32
griffgruff	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.90
Nightshado	Big blind		£0.04	£0.10	£0.64
	Your hole cards	K K
joesoap121	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£4.24
Nightshado	Check
DADSARMIE	Fold
pyte	Call		£0.04	£0.18	£3.78
-Typhoon-	Raise		£0.68	£0.86	£3.08
daz69	Fold
griffgruff	All-in		£3.90	£4.76	£0.00
joesoap121	Fold
Nightshado	All-in		£0.62	£5.38	£0.02
pyte	All-in		£3.78	£9.16	£0.00
-Typhoon-	All-in		£3.08	£12.24	£0.00
griffgruff	Unmatched bet		£0.12	£12.12	£0.12
griffgruff	Show	8 5
Nightshado	Show	5 A
pyte	Show	2 3
-Typhoon-	Show	K K
Flop
		A 3 6
Turn
		J
River
		Q
Nightshado	Win	Pair of Aces	£2.59		£2.61
pyte	Win	Pair of 3s	£0.11		£0.11
-Typhoon-	Win	Pair of Kings	£8.84		£8.84

beaneh · February 2010

There are two ways to look at this hand now that the results have been posted (as I always say posting results is a bad idea and influences peoples decisions.

In this case the equities are as follows

85o 10.7%

A5o 23%

23s 14%

KK 52%

So yes we lost in this case because some combination of the board running out made our hand not the best but on average we win 52% of everything in the pot in this scenario, just remember that there are tons of flops and turn combinations. You made the right decision you just have to be happy with it.