Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn???

DOHHHHHHH

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
gaffer_14	Small blind		£0.15	£0.15	£31.12
DOHHHHHHH	Big blind		£0.30	£0.45	£32.55
	Your hole cards	A 5
MELfeaAYR	Fold
richtea	Fold
payday78	Fold
costalot	Call		£0.30	£0.75	£13.62
gaffer_14	Call		£0.15	£0.90	£30.97
DOHHHHHHH	Check
Flop
		3 J Q
gaffer_14	Check
DOHHHHHHH	Check
costalot	Bet		£0.60	£1.50	£13.02
gaffer_14	Call		£0.60	£2.10	£30.37
DOHHHHHHH	Call		£0.60	£2.70	£31.95
Turn
		2
gaffer_14	Check
DOHHHHHHH	Check
costalot	Bet		£2.70	£5.40	£10.32
gaffer_14	Raise		£5.40	£10.80	£24.97
DOHHHHHHH	Raise		£9.60	£20.40	£22.35
costalot	Call		£6.90	£27.30	£3.42
gaffer_14	Call		£4.20	£31.50	£20.77
River
		4
gaffer_14	Check
DOHHHHHHH	Bet		£15.75	£47.25	£6.60
costalot	All-in		£3.42	£50.67	£0.00
gaffer_14	Fold
DOHHHHHHH	Unmatched bet		£12.33	£38.34	£18.93
DOHHHHHHH	Show	A 5
costalot	Show	K 7
DOHHHHHHH	Win	Flush to the Ace	£36.54		£55.47

Third hand of my session, dont recognise any players, no reads whatsoever and no feel for the table.

Ive posted the whole hand - but how do you respond on the turn?

DOHH

beaneh

Check and cold call or jam it doesn't really matter.

I'd lead or c/r flop fwiw.

ACESOVER8s

How do i respond to the Turn? don't know but costalot has a great name, it costalot to see if he would make the none nut flush lol

DOHHHHHHH

Hey I posted it without much detail of what I was thinking - as I was still playing.

My thought, firstly, I can never remember holding the nuts on the turn with a bet and raise into me. 

The turn play by me is horrific, I know the guy who folds the river must have minimum 2 pair....so looking back I need to get him pot committed here, and raise big. As it played out, I got th short stack committed and lost the guy with money by looking so strong on the turn.

I didnt want to see a spade or the board to pair - but thats alot of the deck to avoid, in order to get value, so Im sure my turn play was poor.

The guy who folded said he had the 9 high flush - which obviously is a potential hand, as is top 2, sets, etc. I should have raised more. nvm - no reads at all and no feel for how the guys had been playing.

Thanx 4 replies, DOHH

ACESOVER8s

i think your right with the fact you should of raised more Dohh but like you say, without reads etc it's difficult to see where your going to get the maximum value as you can only play your hand and a very assumed range. you did get paid for the flopped nuts though so be thankfull for all things good and great a like lol

Chris

TP_Dantb

As beaneh says above, i check raise the flop, make it as big as poss so you commit your oppos before the river

ChirpyChip

As Dan said, check raise flop..... flat turn and shove river.

Cowgomoo

Anyone else think that shoving turn looks weaker than just re-raising?

DOHHHHHHH

Yes cowgomoo, like I said, I ade a h ash of the turn, id not even opened my first can at this stage was only 3rd hand!!!!

Amazed people are going for a lead/check raise on the flop with no reads though in an unraised pot.

Worst turn Ive ever played, but Im happy with flop play, set it up, and found out 100% I was up against at least 1 proper hand, by checking the turn.

Horrific turn play by myself, not alot of experience in that situation really. 

zing

flop play is worse than turn play, only marginally less terrible though

DOHHHHHHH

zing, ive read 3 or 4 of your responses to my threads, and ive come to the conclusion, that your a complete and utter @rsehole

Id love to meet you some day and poke you in the eye.

Id also absolutely LOVEEEEE t see you play!!! Yo could be a genius, you could be a donk, but one thing I can say for sure, is you are a patronising tw@t!!!

Go on tell me why my turn play is bad, (I already know) and please tell me how my flop play is bad! - Coz I genuinely dont know, then tell me why making comments such as the one above, makes you feel good about yourself, coz thats the only reason you do it, coz it obviously isnt helping anyone!!! Including myself!!!

Then go n eat poo! 

DOHH

BlackFish3

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn???:

zing, ive read 3 or 4 of your responses to my threads, and ive come to the conclusion, that your a complete and utter @rsehole Id love to meet you some day and poke you in the eye. Id also absolutely LOVEEEEE t see you play!!! Yo could be a genius, you could be a donk, but one thing I can say for sure, is you are a patronising tw@t!!! Go on tell me why my turn play is bad, (I already know) and please tell me how my flop play is bad! - Coz I genuinely dont know, then tell me why making comments such as the one above, makes you feel good about yourself, coz thats the only reason you do it, coz it obviously isnt helping anyone!!! Including myself!!! Then go n eat poo!  DOHH
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

LOL

OMahonyO

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn???:

zing, ive read 3 or 4 of your responses to my threads, and ive come to the conclusion, that your a complete and utter @rsehole Id love to meet you some day and poke you in the eye. Id also absolutely LOVEEEEE t see you play!!! Yo could be a genius, you could be a donk, but one thing I can say for sure, is you are a patronising tw@t!!! Go on tell me why my turn play is bad, (I already know) and please tell me how my flop play is bad! - Coz I genuinely dont know, then tell me why making comments such as the one above, makes you feel good about yourself, coz thats the only reason you do it, coz it obviously isnt helping anyone!!! Including myself!!! Then go n eat poo!  DOHH
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

PMSL

My tuppence worth for ya doh.  I would minraise flop ( yes minraise, shock horror). but that may not get you into the turn situation which I wouldve flatted. All in all there are a few ways to play this hand imo, and I thought you played it ok

beaneh

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn???:

zing, ive read 3 or 4 of your responses to my threads, and ive come to the conclusion, that your a complete and utter @rsehole Id love to meet you some day and poke you in the eye. Id also absolutely LOVEEEEE t see you play!!! Yo could be a genius, you could be a donk, but one thing I can say for sure, is you are a patronising tw@t!!! Go on tell me why my turn play is bad, (I already know) and please tell me how my flop play is bad! - Coz I genuinely dont know, then tell me why making comments such as the one above, makes you feel good about yourself, coz thats the only reason you do it, coz it obviously isnt helping anyone!!! Including myself!!! Then go n eat poo!  DOHH
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

You wont get better with an attitude like that, zing makes good contributions to threads and often puts more thought and analysis in than the original poster.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn???:

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn??? : You wont get better with an attitude like that, zing makes good contributions to threads and often puts more thought and analysis in than the original poster.
Posted by beaneh

"flop play is worse than turn play, only marginally less terrible though"

Is this an example of Zingggggg making a good thoughtful contribution, and helpful analysis, or is this zing trying to deliberately belittle me, as he has done in every single one of my posts that he has replied to? - or is there an inbetween?

Hes just trying to be a d1ck mate, u know it and I know it, n he himself definitely knows it. 

As for "not getting any better with an attitude like that" - Id argue Im definitely not gonna get any better asking for help and reading replies like that, which makes the whole exercise pointless. 

As for your original reply, Im sure you lead the flop because of your image, and your general style is very aggro, so anything other than that would look suspicious to any haf decent player. I have no reads on them, they have never seen me before, I id been sat there for an hour raising alot of pots, I obv get busy on the flop as anything other than a lead just wudnt add up. 

DOHH

beaneh

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn???:

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn??? : "flop play is worse than turn play, only marginally less terrible though" Is this an example of Zingggggg making a good thoughtful contribution, and helpful analysis, or is this zing trying to deliberately belittle me, as he has done in every single one of my posts that he has replied to? - or is there an inbetween? Hes just trying to be a d1ck mate, u know it and I know it, n he himself definitely knows it.  As for "not getting any better with an attitude like that" - Id argue Im definitely not gonna get any better asking for help and reading replies like that, which makes the whole exercise pointless.  As for your original reply, Im sure you lead the flop because of your image, and your general style is very aggro, so anything other than that would look suspicious to any haf decent player. I have no reads on them, they have never seen me before, I id been sat there for an hour raising alot of pots, I obv get busy on the flop as anything other than a lead just wudnt add up.  DOHH
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

The mistake in getting value on the flop relative to the turn is huge because pots increase exponentially so he is right in what he says, if you have a problem with his tone kick him in the nuts but you can definitely learn from what he posts in this and other threads imo. Anyway the bigger the pot is on the flop the bigger the bets are on later streets and the easier it is to get your stack in which is obviously what you are aiming for when you flop the nuts. The reason I say to lead the flop is because everyone limped in and so may well not stab at this flop meaning that it will be very hard to get paid, as it is by leading the flop you can get called by quite a few different hands. On the turn you are extremely lucky to get paid because of how strong your action looks, yet if the players are willing to stack off with worse this is an excellent reason for trying to put more money in on the flop.

BrownnDog

We raise the flop for value, deception, pot size manipulation and information. Build that pot!!!

lynx3ffect

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn???:

zing, ive read 3 or 4 of your responses to my threads, and ive come to the conclusion, that your a complete and utter @rsehole Id love to meet you some day and poke you in the eye. Id also absolutely LOVEEEEE t see you play!!! Yo could be a genius, you could be a donk, but one thing I can say for sure, is you are a patronising tw@t!!! Go on tell me why my turn play is bad, (I already know) and please tell me how my flop play is bad! - Coz I genuinely dont know, then tell me why making comments such as the one above, makes you feel good about yourself, coz thats the only reason you do it, coz it obviously isnt helping anyone!!! Including myself!!! Then go n eat poo!  DOHH
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

HU for rolls lads.....

NColley

beaneh peoples problems are not with zings advice its with his attitude, every response he gives contains the word 'terrible'.

Now if he'd stop posting his dumb unhelpful beginning comments and either make decent responses in threads or stay out he might become liked on the forum.


Gotta raise flop, you need money in the pot to commit them on the turn. On the turn you have to raise far more, I'm thinking at least 15, or even an all in.

DeuceAK_47

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn???:

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn??? : The mistake in getting value on the flop relative to the turn is huge because pots increase exponentially so he is right in what he says, if you have a problem with his tone kick him in the nuts but you can definitely learn from what he posts in this and other threads imo. Anyway the bigger the pot is on the flop the bigger the bets are on later streets and the easier it is to get your stack in which is obviously what you are aiming for when you flop the nuts. The reason I say to lead the flop is because everyone limped in and so may well not stab at this flop meaning that it will be very hard to get paid, as it is by leading the flop you can get called by quite a few different hands. On the turn you are extremely lucky to get paid because of how strong your action looks, yet if the players are willing to stack off with worse this is an excellent reason for trying to put more money in on the flop.
Posted by beaneh

100% agree

I would be pretty upset with myself for checking this flop,then i would be thinking thank god he bet,he saved us.......then we call......we need to get some money in this pot lol,sorry dohhhh i think your a great player but you played this badly imo.

Nl50 and below with no reads i always assume loose passive until proven otherwise- we dont beat loose passive players by them bluffing into us,we beat them by taking them to valuetown.

offshoot

While zings criticism could have been more constructive i dont think you should take it to heart when someone says you played a hand badly doh. Just ignore it or ask him to expand on what he means. The latter being the better option as zing gives solid advice.

beaneh

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn???:

beaneh peoples problems are not with zings advice its with his attitude, every response he gives contains the word 'terrible'. Now if he'd stop posting his dumb unhelpful beginning comments and either make decent responses in threads or stay out he might become liked on the forum. Gotta raise flop, you need money in the pot to commit them on the turn. On the turn you have to raise far more, I'm thinking at least 15, or even an all in.
Posted by NColley

Is it a popularity contest?! He can give good advice and be hated lol

It's not hard to see, we have the nuts therefore we want to get chips in the pot ez game!

This is a very friendly forum compared to most, if you cant cope with little innocuous comments on the internet you're gonna be having a mare!

zing

why the overreactions, stop taking things so personally.

if i say what i do it's because there's a reason behind it not that i'm attacking you.

if i see something as a terrible play then i'll say so, why should i sugar coat it? we're not 10year olds i shouldn't have to protect feelings on a poker strat forum.

i've offered plenty of advice in your topics, relook over them if you don't recall.

NColley

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn???:

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn??? : Is it a popularity contest?! He can give good advice and be hated lol It's not hard to see, we have the nuts therefore we want to get chips in the pot ez game! This is a very friendly forum compared to most, if you cant cope with little innocuous comments on the internet you're gonna be having a mare!
Posted by beaneh

i can take advice  but if people just go 'oh terrrible play' how am i pose to learn?  + if someone doesnt play on sky like zing how can i take his advice seriously?

OMahonyO

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn???:

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn??? : i can take advice  but if people just go 'oh terrrible play' how am i pose to learn?  + if someone doesnt play on sky like zing how can i take his advice seriously?
Posted by NColley

he was 2-3 tabling 20nl tonight

beaneh

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn???:

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn??? : i can take advice  but if people just go 'oh terrrible play' how am i pose to learn?  + if someone doesnt play on sky like zing how can i take his advice seriously?
Posted by NColley

Read it; try and understand it and see where he's coming from maybe? You cant believe everything you read that people type on forums or on t'internet in general so you have to filter the wheat from the chaff yourself.

DOHHHHHHH

Zing you have given constructive advice on my strategy threads before, I agree, and I appreciate it.

But, on each and every strategy thread I start, your initial response is always, short, sharp, non-constructive, and comes across as patronising. 

I ave to then go back to the thread, read your reply, and ask you to expand, and explain your thoughts Which is the whole point of the strategy board in the first place.

This time the comment was just sly and cheap, like you took the time to open the discussion, read my OP, then leave a snide 1 liner. Whats the point in that?

Your advice Im sure is good when you give it, to me its just too technical and although I probably understand what you mean, I don't really understand the way you say it. Its like reading a dictionary of poker terminology. 

Anyway no matter what people say, although the big names are mounting up against me, lol, I remain pleased with my flop play. And I guess I know my own mistake on the turn, just wondered if people favour a flat, a big raise, or an all in there.

Thanx for replies everyone.

zing

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn???:

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn??? : i can take advice  but if people just go 'oh terrrible play' how am i pose to learn?  + if someone doesnt play on sky like zing how can i take his advice seriously?
Posted by NColley

the fact that fulltilt is my main site and not sky shouldn't mean my advice can't be trusted.

do I need to post my ptr and pokertracker graphs to show i'm a winning player to take me seriously?

enough of derailing this thread.

flop should be raised like everyone has said to build pot, this is demonstrated in this pot pretty clearly as a complete blank has come on the turn changing nothing yet the action from villains is still very high which shows more money would of been made on the flop.

added to this sky is so call happy at micros it's easily best play to raise flop for value then bet out turn.

WHOAMI196

DOHHHHHHHHHH    lol

beaneh

In Response to Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it....How do u play the turn???:

Your advice Im sure is good when you give it, to me its just too technical and although I probably understand what you mean, I don't really understand the way you say it. Its like reading a dictionary of poker terminology.  Anyway no matter what people say, although the big names are mounting up against me, lol, I remain pleased with my flop play. 

And I guess I know my own mistake on the turn, just wondered if people favour a flat, a big raise, or an all in there. Thanx for replies everyone.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Would you be pleased with folding the flop?!?!?

You got exceptionally lucky on the turn that you hoisted a massive flag saying STRENGTH and yet your opponents didn't notice it; you really don't deserve to get paid with that turn action. The fact is that if they all fold the turn you might just realise you misplayed the flop and need to look back at those decisions rather than just stubbornly trudging along and telling zing he has to give you more information and help for free whilst also being more polite and trying to word it as easy as possible for you.

DOHHHHHHH

Yeh agreed bean! Turn is auwful, thats what the whole question was about .....

 Re: Too good to be true.....made a mess of it...."How do u play the turn???"

I got a guy to put all but £3 of his stack in on the flop and the turn, with king high.  could and should have gotten the other guy pot committed on the turn, which is where my mistake came.

Never gonna agree that leading that flop 3rd hand of a session with no reads, no table image, in an unraised pot, at that level, is the best way to go about it.

I lost loads of value from the guy who folded the river - which was my own fault, he was coming all the way if I just shove the turn. That would have happened if I'd led the flop or not. So I have the made hand coming with me.

The check flop and turn also got the KING HIGH to come along with me too. So I got full value from the guy I shouldnt have, and missed value from the guy I should have felted, however, if I changed 1 simple thing (shove turn) I get full value from both. This wouldn't happen if I lead flop.

Ahhh well, next time I flop the nuts and have a bet and a raise into me, i'll know what to do!