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Staking deals, the lowdown,

2

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  • oynutteroynutter
    edited May 2010
    well, no flopwit flaphead is getting half my winnings----innit !
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  • MrWh1teMrWh1te
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Staking deals, the lowdown,:
    someone gets half your profit if you win---and all your profit next time if you lose---How can it be a good idea???
    Posted by oynutter
    One off deal.  half the profit till you double br, that simple.
    There need not be a next time.

    added advantage that staker is a top top player and willing to look through hands etc
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited May 2010
    You wana put all the details on here to make it clearer? How much is he giving you? He takes half your profit till you double your roll, what if you lose it all?
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  • MrWh1teMrWh1te
    edited May 2010

    250, he takes half profit if i win,  if i lose, he lost his money and i am no worse off (not that i am intending to lose).  we play to double BR.  when i hit double BR we discuss whether we want a further deal or go our seperate ways.

    there are other stipulations such as moving down if losing and moving up when winning but that just follows BR rules and nothing more

    added advantage is, the guy is a great great player and has offered to look at any hands etc (though he extends this offer even if i dont take his deal).

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  • offshootoffshoot
    edited May 2010
    seems like a standard staking deal. If you feel its more profitable than grinding it out then take it.
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited May 2010
    I dont really see why you wouldnt take this, i think it's a great deal considering your situation... needed a quick bankroll build.
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  • JockBMWJockBMW
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Staking deals, the lowdown,:
    I don't see a problem with some staking IF all parties enter the deal with full transparency and trust.  I think MrWhite is talking about a friendly stake with known stakers rather than a response to a staking beg.  As long as there's trust it all boils down to maths. You have £20 and can afford to play 1p/2p nl with 10 buyins. or You have £300 and can afford to play 15p/30p nl with 10 buyins. Let's say you can play some and can beat £2nl for 14bb/100 and beat £30 nl for 8bb/100 after 5000 hands you have won £14 at £2nl but £120 at £30nl (£60 after stakee paid back.) As long as you're not responsible for any big losses surely the staking option is better every time? Basically the staker needs to know the stakee can play and win...... then both parties should be happy (as long as the stakee doesnt do anything immoral.) 
    Posted by cottlad

     I dont think there is any problems with your Maths,  I think it's with some of your assumptions.... 14bb/100 and 8bb/100  Phil Ivey, arguably the best Cash player in the world, doesn't average those hits 
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  • TommyDTommyD
    edited May 2010
    Mr White

    I would like to strongly discourage you from taking this offer.  Before I go into the whys and wherefores I need ask a question.  Where did this guy come from?  Are they a friend or just a member on the forum?  They claim to be a great player but have you either seen them play and verified on the site they were playing it was the same guy that was on the forum?

    You say half the profits and he takes the losses, but this doesn't make sense.  Say your first session you win 50 and give him half, you're now on 275.  Next session you loss 50 and you're back on 225.  You win another 50 and your bankroll is back to 250 and he's made £50.

    You also said it was a one time deal then later said that after making it to £500 you would discuss a further arrangement.  Frankly my gut feeling is you're being scammed.  Give me some more detail and I will qualify this statement and put a very long post in here about my feelings towards this potential staker and how he is viewing you.  Please tell me you haven't given him any personal information about yourself (email addy, tel Number etc).


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  • offshootoffshoot
    edited May 2010
    um this is a totally standard staking deal and very common, nothing sounds fishy about it really although you can never be totally safe. I dont think hes handing the guy money at any point. THe guy gives him a bankroll and once he doubles it they split the profits. I doubt the guy is gonna be taking money out of it after every session.
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  • oynutteroynutter
    edited May 2010
    If he takes half the profit of every session, it could take forever to double your roll
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited May 2010
    ditch the bride,problem solved;-)
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  • MrWh1teMrWh1te
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Staking deals, the lowdown,:
    Mr White I would like to strongly discourage you from taking this offer.  Before I go into the whys and wherefores I need ask a question.  Where did this guy come from?  Are they a friend or just a member on the forum?  They claim to be a great player but have you either seen them play and verified on the site they were playing it was the same guy that was on the forum? You say half the profits and he takes the losses, but this doesn't make sense.  Say your first session you win 50 and give him half, you're now on 275.  Next session you loss 50 and you're back on 225.  You win another 50 and your bankroll is back to 250 and he's made £50. You also said it was a one time deal then later said that after making it to £500 you would discuss a further arrangement.  Frankly my gut feeling is you're being scammed.  Give me some more detail and I will qualify this statement and put a very long post in here about my feelings towards this potential staker and how he is viewing you.  Please tell me you haven't given him any personal information about yourself (email addy, tel Number etc).
    Posted by TommyD
    ok will reply to this.

    Firstly I will not name the guy, thats not my place but he has never ever said to me he is a great player.  I say he is based on watching him play, over many sites, for many years.
    He is a member of another forum, a VERY successful one  we both helped create and I would class him as a good friend, though we have never met.  I do however trust him 100000% and that is not an issue.  It is not a scam.

    The deal would be 50/50 split AFTER I have doubled the original bankroll.

    As for further deals, that was at my request.  My reasoning being, say I make the double BR fairly quickly and easy and am playing well, it would be bad to have to pay back what is owed and have a relatively small BR in comparison.

    This isnt the original deal in question either, but one that was bettered by him when I spoke to him about how good the original offer from someone else was.

    There is no time limit or pressure to decide and its all very relaxed.  We both know the score and all is good.





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  • oynutteroynutter
    edited May 2010
    so, he gives you 250---you double it to 500--how much do you give him back---250 and 125?
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  • JockBMWJockBMW
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Staking deals, the lowdown,:
    so, he gives you 250---you double it to 500--how much do you give him back---250 and 125?
    Posted by oynutter

    He gives him nothing, he splits everything 50/50 after he has doubled up to 500 from the original 250 
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  • TommyDTommyD
    edited May 2010
    So in fact it's a mate lending you £250 for a bit, when you get it to £500 you give him the £250 back.  That's not staking, that's a loan.
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  • offshootoffshoot
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Staking deals, the lowdown,:
    So in fact it's a mate lending you £250 for a bit, when you get it to £500 you give him the £250 back.  That's not staking, that's a loan.
    Posted by TommyD

    no its not because he doesnt have to pay it back if he loses it
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  • TommyDTommyD
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Staking deals, the lowdown,:
    In Response to Re: Staking deals, the lowdown, : no its not because he doesnt have to pay it back if he loses it
    Posted by offshoot
    That has never been made clear.  Also you said earlier this was a standard staking deal, what's the staker earning?
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited May 2010
    Ok here's  a few facts, the word 'staking'...hmm very wide meaning, but there  are one or two  very good deals out there.. However is  this for online or live play ?

    Here's the problem if it's Online, I know a very good player and friend who was staking  some players,  one player he was staking had a similar  kind of deal where the 'staker' held the bank  details, the 'stakee' played and started to  build up  a nice roll ..

    The problem came when  the 'stakee' got greedy, and decided  he and a mate  would  go online and play 'heads-up'  .. The 'stakee' dumped 15k to  his friend (allegedly) in one late night  session, and then when the 'staker' found out the next day about the loss,  he had to accept what had happened , obviously  dropped the 'stakee' like a ton of bricks, although the 'stakee' pleaded innocence, it became  fairly  clear  later as to  what had happened !!

     There were alot of  accusations flying  about but the facts  are where money  and lending or  staking  is  concerned ... trust no one ....   glk
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  • DeuceAK_47DeuceAK_47
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Staking deals, the lowdown,:
    In Response to Re: Staking deals, the lowdown, :  I dont think there is any problems with your Maths,  I think it's with some of your assumptions.... 14bb/100 and 8bb/100  Phil Ivey, arguably the best Cash player in the world, doesn't average those hits 
    Posted by JockBMW
    8bb/100 winarate at 30nl is a good winrate but nothing amazing,seen people crush 6max 50nl for 20bb over large samples...also the good high stakes players can beat 1000nl for 8bb/100, If you play hu the winrates can be much higher.
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  • MrWh1teMrWh1te
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Staking deals, the lowdown,:
    so, he gives you 250---you double it to 500--how much do you give him back---250 and 125?
    Posted by oynutter
    correct
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  • MrWh1teMrWh1te
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Staking deals, the lowdown,:
    In Response to Re: Staking deals, the lowdown, : That has never been made clear.  Also you said earlier this was a standard staking deal, what's the staker earning?
    Posted by TommyD

    250 in, double to 500 then he gets back his 250 + 125
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited May 2010
    So what does that leave your bankroll as? £125?
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  • MrWh1teMrWh1te
    edited May 2010
    yes
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited May 2010
    It seems so pointless doing a deal or anything just to be left with a roll of £125... You can get that sort of roll in a couple of weeks playing dyms easily.
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  • oynutteroynutter
    edited May 2010
    go to the 5p/10p tables with a tenner--for flops sake!
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  • barnsiebarnsie
    edited May 2010
    i have staked players elsewere for about 5 years now

    you will get good experiences (staked various winning players in stars tournies for some nice percentages) and some awful ones (i am currently owed approx 6k from somebody i have previously staked and do trust or did)

    you take your chances its another form of gambling really
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  • tallboytallboy
    edited May 2010
    For £125 i would sooner do it myself pointless in my opinion.
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  • cottladcottlad
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Staking deals, the lowdown,:
    For £125 i would sooner do it myself pointless in my opinion.
    Posted by tallboy
    That's because you have £125..... In case you didn't realize, people generally choose to be staked because they don't have the funds necessary.

    Oh and £10 - £125 in 2 weeks playing DYM's?  Can you explain further with what stakes you would play and how many games it would take to reach £125 without risking your roll?

    Oh yes, there's also the 10p table with a tenner advice.,...... that's 1 buyin........ 


    MrWhite...... in all seriousness i don't think posting such a question on this particular forum will gain you much knowledge as you mostly end up getting advice from people who don't really know what they're talking about but would like to pass on their thoughts anyway ;)  No offence meant to most of the replies in this thread, that's just how it is.

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  • tallboytallboy
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Staking deals, the lowdown,:
    In Response to Re: Staking deals, the lowdown, : That's because you have £125..... In case you didn't realize, people generally choose to be staked because they don't have the funds necessary. Oh and £10 - £125 in 2 weeks playing DYM's?  Can you explain further with what stakes you would play and how many games it would take to reach £125 without risking your roll? Oh yes, there's also the 10p table with a tenner advice.,...... that's 1 buyin........  MrWhite...... in all seriousness i don't think posting such a question on this particular forum will gain you much knowledge as you mostly end up getting advice from people who don't really know what they're talking about but would like to pass on their thoughts anyway ;)  No offence meant to most of the replies in this thread, that's just how it is.
    Posted by cottlad
    Sorry cottlad for making such a short statement, but this is the guy who started a thread some time ago saying he wanted to make £600 a month for 10 months playing 15p/30p NLH and MTTS so he could have his dream honeymoon in Florida for all his family. If he need's the £125 he's looking to make from the staking to start grinding away again then good luck to him, although i think he might seriously be struggling to make his 6k before the big day.
    If that's not the case, what's £125 going to get you when your trying to pay for a wedding?? My point is if it was me i would borrower the money off a family member or even a small loan rather than some guy who i had never met even though he say's he trust's him 10000%.

    If im still missing the point im sure you will put me right!
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  • cottladcottlad
    edited May 2010

    I have no idea about personal situations and goals..... only what's stated within this thread.  This thread is asking advice about staking which is what i'm trying to offer.  If he wanted honeymoon advice or hand advice at 15p/30p i'd offer that too :)
    Also, what does it matter if the staker is untrustworthy?  Not that this is even relevant as OP says he is.  He is givin you money and hoping for a return...... at no point do you give him money until you make an agreed profit.

    Also, borrowing money means you have debt.  Playing poker with borrowed money surely can't be good advice?

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