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DYM - What's your record for consecutive cashes?

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  • edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: DYM - What's your record for consecutive cashes?:
    been doing a bit of an experiment this mnth playing hu on this and another site with 40 quid  at the start of the mnth on each. had a good day yesterday won 13 outta 15 and still on a run of 9.  busto on 1 site and about 300 up on the other. question; should i carry on at that level£20 (5 min blinds) or move up to 30. heart says 1 thing, head says another!!
    Posted by pod1

    Confidence is important here so if you feel confident then give it a go but maintain your discipline and accept if it doesnt work out concentrate on what does. By the sounds of it you need to pay close attention to BR management if you do then things should progress nicely

    Keep Smiling
    HAL_9000


  • edited June 2010
    Hi Hal,

    Having read your post I'm not really in disagreement with anything you say in particular, I did wrongly assume that when you referred to playing hands, only every 30 mins or so, you were limiting yourself but I'd made that assumption of 6 seat tables, in which case the button would have passed you on several more occasions than on a nine so thats a fair point you raise.

    However I think you've also been a little been assumptive in thinking that I'm a SNG only player, I'm a regular at DTD on the cash tables playing the £1/£2 level. (This might not sound much to those not aware of the venue but those in the know will be aware of just what sort of pot sizes that can be)

    Regarding DTD you might struggle to find a £5/£10 action on hold em as the usual high rollers table is £5/5 dealers choice. Don't let the relative low blinds be deceptive you're going to need a minimum of £2/3k cash to buy in mid week and upto £5k to get a seat at a festival weekend. You can contact Simon Trumper though and I'm sure he can get something put together for you. 

    We've got a away from the point a little which is does Sharkscope give you an idea of the quality of the player your against?, I would say yes for 99% people. Although clearly your not in the 99%!. However if your interested in having a bit of fun, I'd like to chuck a challenge down to you to prove my point that a winning player at one format is a winner at another. 

    The challenge is I'd like you to register for three DYM SNG at any level upto £11, I'm confident that as cash player of your level you will win at least 2 out of three which would be the sort of form you'd need to make them pay over the long term. I'll then match what ever you win and I suggest we make a donation of the winnings and my matched contribution to Help for Heroes?
     
  • edited June 2010
    Good luck m8 ! I have done 18 twice.

    But I also once managed 11 consecutive losses.

    Poker is a game of form and confidence.

    Nice fish


  • edited June 2010
    No i wasnt assuming you were a sng player you said you "fail to see" and I was just trying to explain the gulf between sitngoes and cash
    Even 6 handed your still only looking at £24 or so, which as your aware is very small in relation to the average pot size.
    also having played significant cash I would say it very rarely folds round to the bb so there is usually pressure on the blinds anyway.
    Perhaps im reading too much into your quote of "fail to understand"

    The whole point I am trying to explain is that I am not atuned to playing DYM sitngoes I delibrately choose not to play them as they do not suit my game.
    Yet you want me to play them to raise money for charity???
    HFH is a chosen charity of mine anyway, so i carnt refuse the challange no matter how daft it is Eh?
    I am playing tonight and getting ready for Glasto on Tuesday so it will have to be when I get back but I promise I will take it on. By all means remind me as I have a memory like a sieve.

    There is a 5/10 at DTD once a month that one or two fish play in
    I suppose I am looking to be one of those fish !!!

    Keep Smiling
    HAL_9000
  • edited June 2010
    Cool man, we'll do it when you get back. The reason I've chosen your 'weak' event is prove to you that it isn't, as long your making fundamentally correct poker decisions,  which based on this conversation you are. I'm quietly confident you'll win all three and prove my point and at the sametime HFH benefits.
     
    I think you reading too much into what was glip theoretical remark about the 'failing to see'.  

    I think this debate has got to the point where I'm not really in that much of disagreement with you on your personnel view as I'm trying to use a general rule of thumb or holistic generalisation of typical players.

    We could go off into an entirely different theoretical argument and debates as to whether you calculation allows for you failing to win a couple of times in a row that you do get involved to variance but frankly that would be the start of a book. :) 
  • edited June 2010
    Well done on your dym run mate

    On sharkscope it doesn't count satellite does it? so if you satellite into the primo and don't cash it says you have lost £30? 

    I am not  100% on this but i think that's the case and that's the reason i don't pay to much attention to sharkscope
  • edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: DYM - What's your record for consecutive cashes?:
    Irishrover has had a couple of superb 20+ DYM runs. Sure he said that you need to hit around 24 to get on the Sharkscope leader board thingmebob.
    Posted by emilyegg

    I manage to get 20 dym on the bounce one time on Omaha ,

    16 was my best on nlh dym,

    one needs to get 24 on the bounce to get on the top twenty leaderboard on

    sharkscope.

    28 is the best recorded in  sharkscope .


  • edited June 2010
    In Response to Re: DYM - What's your record for consecutive cashes?:
    Well done on your dym run mate On sharkscope it doesn't count satellite does it? so if you satellite into the primo and don't cash it says you have lost £30?  I am not  100% on this but i think that's the case and that's the reason i don't pay to much attention to sharkscope
    Posted by robc
    Correct, Rob. It logs it as if you'd paid the full buy-in.

  • edited June 2010
    This discussion between Ace and Hal highlights the big difference between playing cash and playing tournies/sit and goes.

    If you are playing cash properly within your BR, there is no time pressure on you. Also there is generally not the same variance in the stacksizes as in a tourny. Therefore you can sit with the same players, build an image, and look for leaks in their games. These are skills I am still learning, and also developing the patience to use them.

    In tournies the players at your table can change quicker, and opportunities arise due to the varying stack sizes. Different pressures can be applied when you cant reload. And as the field reduces and the average stacksize goes up, you have to exploit some of these chances irrespective of your cards, in order to stay competitive. And in the later stages, the bubble brings its own pressures and opportunities. When the blinds rise high against the stack sizes, players are forced to make moves you would not see at any cash table.

    DYM sit and goes are different again. Because there is a finite number of chips on the table, there is no need to look to double up or greatly increase your chips, other than to keep it above the average as players are lost. The successful players are those who put their stack at risk the least, and generally win pots without going to a showdown. There is less reward for aggression, more for patience and awareness of relative stacks and where the button is.
    I have more than once "won " a DYM without making a bet. The main problem with making money at DYMs is the rake, you have to win 7 out of 10 to show a small profit.

    But three totally different sets of skills for the three formats.


  • edited June 2010
    Well lets just put one more major difference in as to why i dont play them.
    The main reason for not playing DYM is that, as stated many times before on these forums. They represent very poor value for money to someone like me. I no longer play poker for fun, I play it seriously, and I enjoy it, and have fun whilst playing it but i do not do it for fun.
    So i have important decisions to make such as how do i get the best return on my investment? how do i risk less to get more?

    The bare truth is this
    If I play a £50 dym i risk £55 to win £45
    If I play a cash game and shove £50 then I am risking £50 to win at least £98.20 back but only minus a maximum of £1.80 as the rake compared to the buyin is so different.
    The point of playing it over 30 mins instead is irrelevant as I am always trying to put my money in the middle in order to make money so the more times I can do it the better but for me. To contemplate the massive rake of doing it on DYMs just makes no sense at all the variance is absolutely going to take that massive percentage and gobble it up. where as if I play cash that 8% or so is when I win, coming back to me, now assuming i win on both then why would I want to pay that extra % or indeed risk more money to win less.
    So assume I am on a cash table or two, I can get my money in 3 or 4 times an hour maybe, that means I need to be playing 3 or 4 dyms at the same time to present me the same opportunities so thats 3 or 4 times £8  or £32 per hour never mind the fact that i have to concentrate on twice as many games!!!
    Shall I go on about how different these two games are LOL

    DYM have a place for gathering experience but they are not an option for the longterm poker player it simply is a question of whats the best value and as you see everyone is stating that they have long runs of loses as well so eventually people realise that hold on if i wasnt paying this big rake i would be making another £8.

    BTW This is not a moan at the rakes I am just pointing out the huge difference in how much you can pay to risk your money.

    All figures are purely as a guideline so dont quote me but you get my drift i assume

    Keep Smiling
    HAL_9000
     


  • edited June 2010
    That's a bit of a specious argument if you don't mind me saying so.
    The comparison between cash and DYMs is nowhere near that clear cut.

    You are assuming that cash games work on the basis that you only play one pot every n hands and that you get all your cash in and either win or lose.
    What is much more likely to happen is that you will play multiple pots, each of which will be subject to rake. Therefore the overall rake in a cash game will be considerably larger than you suggest.

    Apologies if that is how you actually play your cash games.
  • edited June 2010
    "Apologies if that is how you actually play your cash games."
    LOL No not really Vince.
    he point im making is that whether I am risking £5 in a pot or £50 the risk reward is far better in a cash game then risking it in DYMs I am open to your wisdom in explaining it any differently.
    Your the man for the numbers so I respect your word.
    But for every pot you play if you consider you commit the same into a dym then the risk reward remains relatively poor surly?
    I accept you get more play for your risk but that is not relevant in my personal scheme of things.


    Keep Smiling
    HAL_9000
  • edited June 2010
    Sorry. ;-)

    It's all a matter of your perceived edge over the cash table and your expectation of how long (i.e. how many pots) it would take you to double up. You also need to factor in the level that you are playing due to the capping of the rake. We can throw some numbers about, if you like. They might prove interesting to some people but they will be a bit "involved", I suspect.


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