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Whats Your Next Move?
Here is a hand from a 10 Handed Deepy - Whats Your Next Move?
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| xxx | Small blind | 40.00 | 40.00 | 9511.25 | |
| xxx | Big blind | 80.00 | 120.00 | 3765.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| xxx | Fold | ||||
| xxx | Fold | ||||
| POKERTREV | Raise | 320.00 | 440.00 | 12775.00 | |
| Villain | Raise | 1040.00 | 1480.00 | 9111.25 | |
| xxx | Fold | ||||
| xxx | Fold | ||||
| xxx | Fold | ||||
| xxx | Fold | ||||
| POKERTREV | Raise | 1440.00 | 2920.00 | 11335.00 | |
| Villain | Raise | 3600.00 | 6520.00 | 5511.25 | |
| POKERTREV | Call | 2880.00 | 9400.00 | 8455.00 | |
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| POKERTREV | Check | ||||
| Villain | All-in | 5511.25 | 14911.25 | 0.00 | |
Comments
my KK is not as strong in a 10 handed deepy pre-flop.
the villain told me about this hand, and i know what he had and what the river brought
Just one of those coolers trev, no-one, however good they are can stop themselves going broke here.
Ok, you have no club outs, but you have FH outs, and i'd fancy that i was ahead here anyway on that flop.
I agree with you that there is no need to go all in pre, in this format with any hand except AA. But you are virtually comitted to the hand once you flat call the five bet so surely its best to get it all in here. (or fold pre if your that worried he has AA!!!)
But why are you even thinking about folding on that flop??? when the pot is already massive...
I had made my mind up I was going to check shove on the flop as the re-raise over my re-raise pre-flop told me he had AA or QQ at best. Then his shove on the flop confirmed in my mind that he had AA so I wasn't too concerned about the flush unless he had Ac and binked another club.
and yes people can call with QQ/JJ/TT/AK but WE WANT THEM TO CALL. your experience doesn't mean anything because if ur thought process is so skewed that you are thinking about times when you got outdrawn in an 80/20 or a 70/30 then you should just quit.
this is a insta snap call shove. the only reason why you would flat is if the villain is extremely laggy and you wanna get his ENTIRE stack in which case you insta snap call ANY flop let alone top set.
what do we do on a 7 6 2 rainbow board?
what do we do on an A 6 T board? we can't really be scared of an A as if he had AA it becomes that less likely as one A has hit. and he can't have AK as we have 2 of them. so do we sigh fold and go this is so sick he has 5bet me pre with AQ.
i dont mind flatting with KK if you have a read on villain/plan on the hand but if you dont then just get it in.
I don't need to say any more.... A fold is out of the question.
As for check raising all in, that opponant bets properly, so you have no hope of that.
If anyone would genuinely fold here, i will eat my pants.
Oh and just get it in pre. The villain has put almost 50% of his stack in so he's never folding.
As I have now seen the flop, I think this is the best time to shove all in. On this point I think we can all agree.
I have played the hand to the flop and improved my hand so at this stage I think it is safe to say I have to shove regardless of what villain does next.
So that being said, can someone break down my options with KK on a 10 handed deepy?
1.Do I shove all in pre without putting my oppo on a hand?
2. Was I correct to raise my oppo's re-raise or should I have just shoved against his re-raise?
3.If I put oppo on AA after he re-raised my re-raise, am I still shoving all-in pre flop? or do I flat call giving me a chance to get out of the hand if I don't improve?
4. Or are we saying KK in a 10 handed deepy is an insta shove all in pre flop every time?
My thought procces was:
I 4/bet pre-to ask the question, villain re-raises, so at this point i could put him on JJ, QQ, AA.
I re-pop him to ask the question and try to narrow his hand down a little and he answers by coming over the top again. (Does he have AA?) I think if I shove here it is suicide, however, I have invested a good proportion of my stack into the pot so I now decide to flat call to re-asses my hand. My hand improves so I pretty much think it's now going to go all-in.
But if I hadn't improved on the flop I think I would have folded to his all in as I would have had no option but to put him on AA. (Over 50% of my stack gone but with 8.5K leftat this early stage I would have still been in good shape for the rest of the tourny)
My thought process may be wrong on this occasion and most likely is, which is why I ask you for your advice.
No but we have KK in a low BI donkament. If he has AA we say GG and go find another tournie. This isn't the first level of the WSOP ME.
2. Was I correct to raise my oppo's re-raise or should I have just shoved against his re-raise?
Eithers fine. Probably too deep to just shove but its not terrible.
3.If I put oppo on AA after he re-raised my re-raise, am I still shoving all-in pre flop? or do I flat call giving me a chance to get out of the hand if I don't improve?
If you put your opponent on AA then you just fold. But AA is such a sick read its near impossible to do it. Flat calling is very bad because you are essentially turning KK into 77. You say you put him on AA/QQ PF....if the flop is Q 9 4 then do we fold because we put him on either a set/AA? If the flop is T 2 8 do we still fold? Do we only get it in if we bink a 2 outer?
4. Or are we saying KK in a 10 handed deepy is an insta shove all in pre flop every time?
There are some players where you can fold/flat if ur getting the price but against a random then its an easy stack off. We are meant to stack off with KK vs AA AIPF. Remember we too can outdraw on the AA 20pc of the time.
Thats much more understandable to me and thanks for taking the time to reply m8y.
Cheers
Pokertrev.
There are far too many I's in that word, unless you are in a whole lot of pain.
(A bit like me when I play the rest of this hand out)
confused.com
If I were playing a 6 handed table, I would be happy to be called with those type of cards all day long.
The maximum number of cards out pre flop on a 6 seater is 12 (17 including flop, turn & river)
The maximum number of of cards out pre-flop on a 10 seater is 20 (25 including flop, turn & river)
Because there are more players and more cards out in a 10 seater, I don't feel the holding cards are as strong pre-flop as they would normally be on a 6 seater. For instance there is more chance of multiple pairs and also Ace high hands being dealt such as A10, AJ, AQ, AK as holding cards and the more players that fold pre-flop the more likely it is that an ace or a set is going to be dealt with the remaining few cards.
If you play 10 seaters regularly, it soon becomes apparent that holding cards pre-flop are not as strong as 6 seater tournies and players use a much wider calling range and you seem to have more chance of getting your hand through without too much collateral damage if you see the flop first and then re-asses.
This is only my observation, but one which gets me to many final tables in the 10 seater deepies.
WHAT. The equity that QQ has vs KK is the same no matter if you are playing HU/6seater/10 seater.
And how is it more likely for a player to hit a set/ace on the flop of a 10 seater table? The odds of this happening is still the same however many handed you are playing...
If I give you 10 cards and ask you to pull out the Ace the odds are 10-1
If I give you 6 cards and ask you to pull out the Ace the odds are only 6-1
On a 6 Seater table there are 40 cards left in the pack after the hole cards are dealt, so if there was only one ace left the odds of the next card being an Ace would be 40-1
On a 10 Seater table there are only 32 cards left in the pack after the hole cards have been dealt, so if there was only one Ace left the odds of the next card being an Ace would only be 32-1
I cant work out the odds for these scenarios if there were 3 Aces in the pack and you had 5 attempts (ie -Community Cards), but obviously the odds would be dramatically reduced.
Maybe someone can ask Merenovice. (cause I have a headache)