You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.

You might need to refresh your page afterwards.

Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!

On the topic of online riggedness

edited July 2010 in Poker Chat
It's an ever recurring topic, and it's one that is a particular bugbear of mine and I want to take this opportunity to give my point of view.

Poker sites

In my opinion they have no reason to care who wins a particular hand of poker or tournament, as they get paid either way. I see no incentive for the sites to have coded for certain things to happen, and a huge disincentive, if it becomes public, your customer base disappears. I accept that in cash tables you can argue there is an incentive for big hands against each other to up the rake, but I still don't buy it because

Coders

Even if nefarious poker site A has got it's coders to juice up the RNG to give AA vs KK or whatever much more often, what stops the guy who coded it going public when he moves jobs or whatever. In general people are poor at keeping secrets and the number of people involved in a decision to do this, and then test it etc would be large making the secret even more vulnerable.


Instead

The fact is that you are rarely that far ahead in poker 23 os can beat AA a depressing percentage of hands, especially if going to the river.

For the sake of argument please accept that the flope turn and river are fair. Why do we hear the complaints of online being so different to brick and stone? The answer here is 2 fold.

1. more hands per hour mean you will see more "amazing" beats

2. the embarrassment factor of making a bad call is removed in online play, and the next tournament is just a click away, unlike in a casino where that may be it for the night, both points conspiring to cause more people to see a flop and the subsequent cards, thus increasing the chance of someone making their unlikely out.



It seems quite clear to me that there is no need of weird conspiracy theories to explain all of this.

Carl
«1

Comments

  • edited July 2010
    Great post luvBWFC
  • edited July 2010
    Excellent post Carl
  • edited July 2010
    Yep, very well put.
  • edited July 2010
    Have you ever actually met a guy who's previous job was "coder for a poker site"?


    Nope, because they make them "disappear" once they program the AA V KK.
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: On the topic of online riggedness:
    Have you ever actually met a guy who's previous job was "coder for a poker site"? Nope, because they make them "disappear" once they program the AA V KK.
    Posted by Mr_Miyagi
    Whole new set o' secrets! Won't there be questions about the disappearance? WHat about when the b ag man turns state? ;)
  • edited July 2010
  • edited July 2010
    ITS RUDDY RIGGED!!!!
  • edited July 2010

    Only vs you Beaneh

  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: On the topic of online riggedness:
    Only vs you Beaneh
    Posted by CoxyLboro
    and brownndog surely?
  • edited July 2010
    I suspect that there would be rather more people than just coders and testers involved.
    My guess at a minimal list is here.


  • edited July 2010
    Nice post mate,NOW can we please REMOVE area 51 as there is quiet clearly no need for it is there? EXACTLY.Lets start a petition to get rid of AREA 51 for good.I hope each and every one of you (well the sane ones anyway) will lend your support to this dav
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: On the topic of online riggedness:
    Nice post mate,NOW can we please REMOVE area 51 as there is quiet clearly no need for it is there? EXACTLY.Lets start a petition to get rid of AREA 51 for good.I hope each and every one of you (well the sane ones anyway) will lend your support to this dav
    Posted by dav1964
    So no votes for that then lol
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: On the topic of online riggedness:
    ILUV luvBWFC.
    Posted by Tikay10
    plus 1.....please forward to bullyfish..........
  • edited July 2010
    I know for a fact that a particular poker site has rigged cash games-- it is rigged in favor of players that are operated by the site--I spent 100 quid sussing out a rigged cash game on the site--- this site admitted to me that it was rigged, and threatened my life--- I moved to sky poker because I felt that it was probably the least likely site to be rigging games
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: On the topic of online riggedness:
    In Response to Re: On the topic of online riggedness : and brownndog surely?
    Posted by dylan12

    BD runs golden.
  • edited July 2010
    very well put!!!!!
  • edited July 2010
    gets on my wick-- loads of people seem to think sites have no incentive to rig games---  sites can, and do, rig cash games so that thier man wins a load of cash--thats an incentive--- innit?
  • edited July 2010
    Weight it against the disincentove of your site being prosecuted and going bust when all comes to light. An honest poker site with a large customer base is minting money. Why risk it?
  • edited July 2010
    greed--- it happens mate--fact-- I saw it-- quite a small site--run by gangsters
  • edited July 2010
    hmmm   now just to put things into perspective here,  either we have a 'newbie ' or maybe some very  naive people who either dont know the facts, or would rather the facts not revealed ..? 

     so as not to offend this or any other poker site, i will not post information here .. all anyone needs to do is write in there search server the words
    'poker room caught cheating'    and you will find a truly remarkable event took place in Oct 2007 ..
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: On the topic of online riggedness:
    hmmm   now just to put things into perspective here,  either we have a 'newbie ' or maybe some very  naive people who either dont know the facts, or would rather the facts not revealed ..?   so as not to offend this or any other poker site, i will not post information here .. all anyone needs to do is write in there search server the words 'poker room caught cheating'    and you will find a truly remarkable event took place in Oct 2007 ..
    Posted by batman4
    Not on this site.
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: On the topic of online riggedness:
    hmmm   now just to put things into perspective here,  either we have a 'newbie ' or maybe some very  naive people who either dont know the facts, or would rather the facts not revealed ..?   so as not to offend this or any other poker site, i will not post information here .. all anyone needs to do is write in there search server the words 'poker room caught cheating'    and you will find a truly remarkable event took place in Oct 2007 ..
    Posted by batman4
    Lordy Batman...just watched the vids, that was an eye-opener. Some inspired play!!! LOL
  • edited July 2010
    i have a friend who is a programmer for digital fruit machines and he confirmed to me that they are def not random and have a percentage of the amount of payouts they allow. So believe it or not there are reasons for it in gambling and even casinos have been known to rig games. Im not stating whether it is or isnt but it does happen whether you would like to think so or not. In one famous case a very well known online site had a programmer who actualy could see all the cards face up and made a very large amount of money with a famous poker player who won the world series (you can check it out if you google it. Anyways im sure sky are fine lol. Just playing devils advocate with yas (the truth is out there) :)
  • edited July 2010
    No one said bandits were random. It even says on the machine 80% (or whatever) payout guaranteed
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: On the topic of online riggedness:
    No one said bandits were random. It even says on the machine 80% (or whatever) payout guaranteed
    Posted by luvBWFC[/QUOT

    so 20% of it is fixed then? why is this do you think? and why is it allowed? same goes with anything electronic. Ever wonder why they dont have gambling on games consoles also? just putting it out there!
  • edited July 2010
    In Response to Re: On the topic of online riggedness:
    In Response to Re: On the topic of online riggedness :
    No one said bandits were random. It even says on the machine 80% (or whatever) payout guaranteed Posted by luvBWFC[/QUOT so 20% of it is fixed then? why is this do you think? and why is it allowed? same goes with anything electronic. Ever wonder why they dont have gambling on games consoles also? just putting it out there!
    Posted by Dazler
    You are comparing two completely different animals.

    Fruit machines are "guaranteed" to return a certain amount over their lifetime (although to call this a "guarantee" is, in fact, stretching a point) by programming them so that certain symbols only occur with a particular probability. This has been the case since the 1980's. I believe that the size of the guaranteed percentage payout is a legal requirement.

    No such programming exists in poker RNGs and it would not have the same effect if someone decided that aces (for example) did not appear as often as other cards since poker is vastly different to fruit machines.



    Your point about a player cheating by having access to hole card information bears no relevance to this topic at all since it is has nothing at all to do with the RNG.
  • edited July 2010
    I think it has a lot of relevance when you consider the online gambling age and that anything is possible when it comes to rigging sites. With the fruit machine point look at pre 80s when the fruit machines used a one arm bandits and were mechanical. There would have been no 80% garantee then but with the digital age starting in the 80s they found a reason to use it! maybe to get back at players using magnets ;) ok the point of the programmer seeing cards dosnt say the site is rigged but does show that sites are not 100% secure or free from reasons that can change the coarse of how cards are affected. I dont know the answer to weather sites are or arnt rigged and couldnt comment on this with out proof and unless somebody does we shall never know. But unless people do question and debate about it, it will be left unchecked and if a site does rig for some reason or another the only way they would be caught would be through somebody asking that question. Always question never asume that all is well. If we didnt then our poloticaians would still have there second homes payed for by us tax payers :)
  • edited July 2010
    some sites can over-ride the rng, and put whatever cards they like on the table
  • edited July 2010
    I do love a good conspiracy theory.  The Diana incident, florid in the drinking water. My favorite has to the moon landing.


    When Mr Armstrong jumped out of his tinfoil space craft to say those imortal words and be the 1st man on the moon.  Who the hell took the photos.  The moomins?

Sign In or Register to comment.