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MTT Hand - Advice / Opinions Needed Please
Last months £200 DS, 25-30 players left, 5 paid, this happened:
Hand History #274123320 (21:27 22/07/2010)
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| the_gibb | Small blind | 75.00 | 75.00 | 5550.00 | |
| SHANXTA | Big blind | 150.00 | 225.00 | 7035.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| TheyDontNo | Fold | ||||
| Villain | Raise | 450.00 | 675.00 | 6230.00 | |
| NIHIGHGUN | Fold | ||||
| phil12uk | Fold | ||||
| the_gibb | Fold | ||||
| SHANXTA | Raise | 1350.00 | 2025.00 | 5685.00 | |
| Villain | Raise | 5250.00 | 7275.00 | 980.00 | |
| SHANXTA | Fold | ||||
| Villain | Muck | ||||
| Villain | Win | 3075.00 | 4055.00 | ||
| Villain | Return | 4200.00 | 0.00 | 8255.00 |
Now I know that normally you shouldn't 3bet fold AK, but is there an arguement to doing it here as it's such a well structured tourny?
Villain seems to be playing pretty ABC, and has had a hand when it's gone to showdown, not been too aggressive.
Comments
Villain - 6800
I suspect the lack of replies is coz its such a tough situation, and no1 really knows what to do....
I've looked at it twice and not been able to come up with anything constructive, but ill bump it to say im clueless....
It's all about the oppo here - i dunno about deepstack strategy, what's his opinion of you? Does he have you down as a creative player? - does he know you that well?
Be good to get replies from penguin, scotty and even tk on this - the top mtt players....
I think in this structure there's loads of play early, but upto and around the bubble, it quickly becomes shove/fold, so maybe gambling with AK early isnt a bad move, as the structure isnt that slow.....
Table image is crucial in this decision, yours and his, I would be shoving against some opponents.
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.785% 23.66% 16.13% 10936805 7456889.50 { AdKs }
Hand 1: 60.215% 44.09% 16.13% 20381624 7456889.50 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }
So I definitely wouldn't be 3-bet/folding here w/o some specific reads, also I think this 3 bet size is better than 3 bet shoving (I would probably even 3-bet a bit smaller) as by shoving we fold out any bluffs/weaker aces that he may continue with if he thinks he still has fold equity, and it balances the other times when we are 3-bet bluffing and don't want to be pot committed.
Does the equity v oppos range still apply in mtts then?
Surely not, as u have 1 life.....whereas in cash u have as many as u like.
Surely it's even more important to get every single decision spot on? Therefore u need to put him on "A HAND" or at least a very specific range? - when there is play ofc, not at shove/fold time.
Im no mtt specialist, but once I go deep (not bothered in the first hour, gamble/bust) - Im counting every chip and very protective of my stack, you gotta be in it to win it.
I see some unbelievable folds in mtt's from like the main event and stuff - which ud never in a million years see in a cash game.
Ye but surely a more successful mtt player is going to be the one who makes the right decision in each specific situation more often than not - as opposed to a player who has a winning game over time.
Even more so in tournaments, its this instinct and feel, making hero calls and amazing folds to avoid tourny bullets, - that seperates the best from the rest.
I have qualified for this tourny at the end of the month, £220 buy in, which is wayyyyyyyyy more than I'd ever dream of paying for an mtt, I don't even play primo - and my approach in this is going to be to try and get every single decision right - wether thats right or wrong, Im sure it will improve my performance for this 1 specific tourny - coz at the time what else matters?
If I can get away from KK pre flop and the guy has AA, it's a great fold - Idnt care if people say it's a losing fold over time, I'm not playing over time, im playing this game right here right now - and i'll trust myself to get it right 1 way or the other.
Having said this - I'm still unsure as to what I'd do in the above hand, as I'd need to know who the villain is.
Have always done better in MTT then cash for it aswell
For example just say someone shoves all-in on the river and you have the 2nd nuts, and in your opinion he has the nuts about 20% of the time based on the range you put him on, its the correct play to make the call 100% of the time, no matter what the result of that 1 particular hand is.
How about if you can make the call 80 times when you are ahead, and fold the 20 times when he has the nuts.
Pefection?
........Is this possible?
More realistically, 'over time' - make the call 900,000 times, including the 800,000 times you have him beat, and 100,000 times when you are behind - hence saving 100,000 tournaments.
Again, if it is possible to make the perfect decision every single time, then why not aim to do so?
I wasnt at the table, dnt no who the player was, have never played with him before, so how can I say what I'd do - I'd be guessing if I gave a concrete answer as to what I'd do.
Id go with what I felt was best at the time.
And as long as the call, fold and raise buttons are all available to you and working, of course it's possible to make the perfect decision every time.
You can't control what happens after the skill ends, so don't worry about it, we have enough on worrying about things we can control.
Same as if I get it in with AA and am called by 23 pre flop, and it comes 2, 2, 2, 4, 5 - The result is a loss, but I played it perfect.
Im not results orientated in that respect, just about things I can control, ie, getting my money in good, or making right/wrong calls/folds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diNshC6tP00
AT/KT/JT/QQ???
He's never folding that in a cash game tho is he surely.
Well I might make some folds, when I shud be calling, and lose money I should be winning, likewise I probably make hero calls when I should be folding, and making money I should be surrendering....
But when you add them together, it must work out as a positive method, as Im a winning player at all of my levels over a sustained period of time.
It works for me, and it has potential to get much better as I get better, whereas the "range over time thing" is just robotic and has v little scope for improvement. - Altho of course it will make you money over time.
If I played 6+ tables id prob have to change everything and learn it, but 2 tabling, give me instincts and feel for a table over a pokerstove any day.
Maybe i'll crash and be completely potless down the job centre by the time im 25, 1 way to find out.
It depends what I thought he had obviously - but I prefer a raise, im 99,9% sure im behind against any decent player, so a call wud be for information, and on the off-chance that he might just be a complete donk.
Im not sure if i'd ever find myself in such a grim situation, lol - and I don't think I wud ever not be sure about wether I had the best hand here or not.
I wud have it in my mind that either a) I believe I had the best hand - in that case I wud call, but Id be sure I was ahead, not 95% sure I was behind. This wud be the least likely read.
- or b) I was behind, and could I win the pot with a bluff.....
.......Unless villain has a history of leading weak to induce, or he had seen me exploit weakness previously on the table then....
I don't think I would ever call, but nor wud I fold - I might raise 40k and get him off his hand.
This hand is abit different, as it's such a miniscule decision (assuming there is still plenty of play left) its probably 1/2 big blinds, it's not gonna define my tournament if I lost it -
Also if we are still deep stacked, I don't mind making an information call to use to my advantage further down the line. (altho no doubt i'd get moved to another table v next hand, fml)
He's not value betting an ace, if he is, he's doing it very poorly. (hopefully id have some reads here)
He's definitely not value betting the jack.
I would put him on a hand including the 'x' - or on a pathetic steal attempt himself, and try to blast him out of the pot, with a raise (if there is room) or an overbet all in.
Its a confusing river bet, I dnt like calling, coz he cud be bluffing with a better hand than I have, the raise has more merit here imo.
Gotta go ftw!