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'Tis a rather large and entertaining diversion (***OFFICIAL LIVE SHOW THREAD***)
Yes, it is of course The Big Game: a £1,000 buy-in, six-max No Limit Hold'em cash game, forming the crux of tonight's edition of Master Cash.
Trevor and I look forward to commentating on some superb poker from 8pm. Please join us by switching your Sky box to channel 865. In fact, do it now, in case you forget later!
As well as drooling over the £5/£10 action, we'll also feature some hands from the lower limits and read out questions and comments posted in this forum thread or e-mailed to skyopen@bskyb.com
So, what's tonight's hot topic? Well, it's a subject that's been discussed many times in the poker community and seems to be a recurring debate on this forum...
Who do we categorise people as "cash players" and "tournament players?" Is the skill-set for these variations of the game really that different?
Here's my take on the subject (which may ruffle a few feathers): I've never come across a good cash player who couldn't switch to tournaments with some degree of success, but I know plenty of excellent tournament players who consistently lose at the cash tables.
Let the discussion commence!
Comments
also cash players will be playing with other reg cash players, who are also very good which in turn leads to meta-game.
in tournies you will rarely be sitting with many regs, and a lot of the time your stack size will dictate your play.
edit: James have you had a chance to see Back to the Future on the big screen? i was born in 86 so didn't get the chance the first time round....saw it the other day and was blown away!
TBH I felt very hard done by last week, James you seemed to isolate me as a slow roller Trevor you compared me to a footballer being racist!
I DO NOT SLOW ROLL and to compare slow rolling to racism is just plain wrong – racism is illegal and has no place in the world today - slow rolling is using the time you are given in a game of poker, for god sake it’s like bad beats if you can’t take it don’t play poker!
All I said was that some players use it as a tactic to gain an advantage for example Tony G and that if you get and edge then it’s worth it, in the modern game any edge is better than none isn’t it???
Next thing I know some plank called bandini is saying he will nut someone who slow rolls him, see you at a spt sometime bandini and I will use it to get you kicked out of the tournament and if you nut me it will hurt you more than me lol
Rant over now the difference between a cash and tourney player, cash player's do generally sit with a deep stack in relation to the blinds, tourney players have to make those push or fold decisions much more often, position play is much more important in cash as well
And I'm one of the hardest keyboard warriors out there by the way. Be wary ;-)
Just re-read TommyD's post.
Is there such a thing as a (live) "tournament pro" who doesn't...
a) fund his buy-ins from his winnings at the cash tables?
b) get bought in by his sponsor?
c) have backers?
Hi there james pls can you tell me what low limits you are gonna show first so can get on the table now ready for it as last week i really enjoyed it cheers jacko999..
Oh good the cash player v tournament player 'debate'.
I will first of all state that I am a MTT player and do not play cash. I used to play a lot of cash when I first started on line poker on other sites and TBH lost a lot more than I won. Hence, when I joined Sky (about a year ago) I decided just to play mainly tournaments. I was aware that making a healthy profit this way was nigh in impossible due to the high variance in MTT, however, I am still in profit overall (albeit a small figure).
The way I see it is you have to have some level of skill to play tournament poker over 3/4 hour periods for little reward in the main. Decisions/bet sizes/pot odds etc etc etc are all relevant in MTT no matter what level you play at. In cash games though (and this is just my personnel view) how much skill does it take to continue losing but due to a large BR, keep reloading regardless of the cost? I have every respect for the bigger cash players on here but that old adage does come into the equation somewhere down the line i.e money talks. If players make mistakes or lose a race for their stack they just reload and carry on (If they have the BR obv). Whereas in a tournament, the player is grinding away knowing possibly one error/suck out will cost him his tournament live.
I am therefore going to conclude that IMHO it is 50/50 on which is the more skillful. There is nothing like sitting on the fence but I don't really want to upset anyone this week!!
One final point which may get a reaction but I will say it how I see it anyway.....I believe there is more respect shown by tournament players towards cash 'specialists' than respect shown the other way. I feel this week on the forum has highlighted this some what but at the end of the day, WE ALL play poker.
Hope you have a good show. Are you showing any tournament play tonight or is it all CASH?....lol
Oh, allow me to answer one of your questions:
"How much skill does it take to continue losing but due to a large BR, keep reloading regardless of the cost?"
It takes a LOT of skill to build up that bankroll in the first place, so that you're able to counter variance by reloading and getting back in the game!
Hi James have a great show tonight
btw could you tell me what Slow - Rolling is as i haven't got a glue?
Cash for Doh.
I'll get my coat.
But cash is where the real money is, and I wish I could get to grips with it. But I have never been able to play consistently well even at the lower limits.
I love watching the top guys play cash though, some of the reads they make are almost psychic, and I will be following the show tonight, hoping to learn something.
And I think you are right, James, the cash players seem able to play tournaments well, but it does not always work the other way.
But I started playing because I love the game, and I still do, and I dont think that anything beats the buzz of a good final table.
As a slightly wayward analogy, as a guitarist- when you're learning to play, an acoustic is tougher to play than an electric (bigger size, less effects to hide bad playing) but if you begin on acoustic, moving into electric is fairly simple- you take your same skillset and apply it to the electric with a few minor modifications. If you begin on electric, there are a lot of completely different techniques that you need to get your head round to play acoustic, since there's nowhere to hide your potential bad habits.
In essence, tournament and cash require different skillsets, but a cash skillset transfers into a tournament one much, much better than vice-versa. Tournaments can be very forgiving to a player with bad habits and weaknesses in their game, thanks to luck and variance in the short term. Cash doesn't have the same forgiveness.
To be truly successful at either though, you need to have strong game- but most with that level of game choose to play cash instead of tournaments for the lower variance.
Personaly I prefer to categorise players as good players (everyone else) and bad players (me).
Hi Kkarlos,
Just to reiterate I absolutely did not infer that you were a racist - happy to set the record straight.
I was simply making the point that to me slow rolling is unacceptable behaviour. If you feel it is fair tactic then obviously you can simply carry on doing it.
Wont be watching tonight, but, in my opinion anybody who slowrolls should be shot on sight, it aint good and it aint clever, very bad ettiquette.
Am enjoying the show am learning loads
Sky poker player Ricorford & his song would be "Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life"
for when he is having a bad day on the tables