You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!
definition of slow-rolling?
i was watching one of the deepies the other night and in the chat box there was talk about slow-rolling. I got the impression this was being frowned upon and wondered exactly what it was. Is it a legitimate strategy of using your time to try and give other players a certain perception of your holding or is this simply poor etiquette because you have a straight forward all in call yet let the clock run down for no reason?
Comments
If there is possibility to win more from your opponent(s) then its fine to use your time however you feel best.
Had someone slow roll me last night, called massive bets on turn for a gutshot and hit. Shows the real character of the person.
just to clarify, in your example someone slowrolled you with a gut shot. Does that mean they were getting the right odds to call all in but took forever to make the call for no reason?
Thankfully tho they're a busto fish who never buys in for full so not that much of a problem.
Had it happen to me a couple of weeks back in a DYM. 4 of us left & I was the short stack so shoved with pocket 8's. Folded round to the big blind who let their timer run all the way down before calling & showing AA. Why do it? If i'm behind/lost the hand then so be it but it's something that really annoys me
Doesn't happen online, because you insta-show your cards.
Its worse in live when some clever guy says "I've got two pair" when you've hit your full house at showdown, only to show quads.
Wouldn't do it live because i'd get a slap but it's easy behind a computer screen. Just being honest and don't pretend you haven't done anything similar !
It is basically knowing you have the nuts, then using up your time instead of just calling/shoving.
However that is not the same as using your time to induce a bet, making your opponent think your weak or undecided in order to call your huge hand.
As an example in last nights deepie I has AA. The guy before me raied 4x the BB . I was in BB he was SB. Now of course I want him to go all in. So instead of just shoving I wait a little....as if thinking about it...so now i flat call. He goes all in...I then INSTA CALL.
If however I had let the timer run down a long way ...then I really AM slow rolling.
However, there are also occasions when players have the nuts yet run the clock down before calling at showdown, and while this isnt technically slow rolling, it is certainly poor etiquette and i suppose it is generally classed as slow-rolling.
Generally, when someone has a strong hand at showdown, they are eager to turn it over and collect the pot. This means that when a player shows a strong hand, and does not see anyone immediately produce anything better, he will justifiably assume that he has won the pot. This can open the door to mischief. In an attempt to get under their opponents skin, a player may wait to show the winning hand until after their opponent has shown and expects to win the pot. This is called a slow roll, and it is considered an extremely rude thing to do. It bothers some players a lot. Which is precisely the goal of the player who slowrolls. Slowrolling is often a response to, or a trigger for, all out psychological war between players.
Despite the discourteous nature of slowrolling, it is not generally prohibited by house rules. If it is prohibited, there is rarely a penalty associated with it. One reason for this is that a slowroll, by its very nature, is subjective. Did a player wait an additional two seconds before showing his hand to dig at another player, or not? Was a player slow rolling, or simply waiting to ensure that it was his turn to turn his hand over? Did the pot get pushed before all hands were exposed, and is that the dealers fault? If a slowroll clearly occurred, should a penalty be imposed, and what would be considered fair? These questions can be nearly impossible to answer objectively. So, a slow roll is just treated as rude behavior and may at most elicit a condemnation from the dealer or floor staff.
Slowroll is not the same as slow play
Copied from an online poker term dictionary...
I don't know how that makes me an idiot or suggests I have lost my stack (in what game!?)
I saw THE ugliest Slow-Roll in a Deepie a few nights ago.
Man with about 5,000 chips moves all-in. (He had AK).
The Big Blind types in the Chat-Box......
"Hmmmmmm........"
Then he let the clock/slider bar run down to the very last second.
THEN he called.
With Aces.
Karma will ensure that next time he does that, he'll not clink "just in time" & his hand will be Passed.
I really struggle to grasp why people would do such a thing.
That sort of thing is as ugly as it gets.
Sick, sick stuff.
I'm pretty sure the hand you are referring to was the one i seen discussed in the deepie the other night. I wasnt playing but had a bit of a look to try and learn a bit.
I didnt see the hand but it was the chat afterwards that compelled me to query what exactly a slow-roll was. I wanted to make sure it was something i wasnt doing at the table.
i have to say that i have great sympathy for you nutter for the way you were treated in that situation. To write hmmm in the chat box and let the time run down shows a real lack of class. Tikay sums it up perfectly, simply ugly.
anyway--welcome to sky--its a great site!--with some really good tourneys--the deep stacks are definately the best place to learn---start by playing solid on the 2.20 buy ins----work up to 5.50s and then 10 seaters---also rest assured that the vast majority of players here are good people that are willing and even eager to help and advise on any poker related question --good luck at the tables--you know what not do ----lol--thats a good start--gl again
If this happened live there'd be a lynching
There are legitimate reasons why someone might want to have a think about a decision even with AA preflop and, ultimately, with only 15 seconds to decide its not as though they are keeping you waiting forever!
All of this gives a psychological edge to the slow roller especially if neither player is knocked out by the hand. I have seen people playing live take up to a few minutes to call with the nuts. In one example the guy took a few minutes and called and when he showed his hand (straight flush against nut flush) his opponent (who wasn't knocked out) went on tilt and made some stupid plays the next few hands and ending up going out on crazy plays just to try and get the guy back. Its all about the reaction which is the same REASON why Matisou gobs off.
Way too many people underestimate the power of getting inside someones head in Poker - its not just all about good cards, good reads and getting lucky.
Either way you have your opinion, I have mine - the difference being I will RESPECT yours. I pay my money so its up to me how I play my game and as long as its within the rules then I dont see why people should whine about it.
Your arguement for getting in the head of opponents is absolutely valid. However, looking at the specific case above, it is not relevant. With pocket aces, almost always he knocks the other player out and therefore gains no "psychological" advantage over an eliminated player. On the few occasions the pocket aces are cracked, the other player will be absolutely elated at a tidy double up and be right in the tourney. The slow-roll will be of little concern. On the other hand, the slow-roller having lost a load of chips is the one likely to lose his/her edge.
You can argue the value of slow-rolling in some situations, though it's not for me, but for me in the above example with oy nutter it was poor and had no value.
Ray
I see the point if the slowroller is a short stack and there has been a bit of handbags with the player setting him all in, it would be a bit like the kid getting bullied fighting back, you'd probably get a few "ell oh ell's" in the chatbox, I wouldn't mind it in this sort of case, but in the above example, it's not nice, you wouldn't like it if it was done to you, so don't you be the one doing it to others.
In the only time I have ever SR'd, it was right on the money bubble, the SB had set me all in, I had Kings, I let the ticker run down BUT, I had typed in the chatbox, "I call". IMO, this is acceptable, you aren't slowrolling to annoy the other player, you are doing it because you're hoping if you do lose the hand, someone else has went out at another table and you sneak into the cash.
In the case I cited, when OyNutter had AK, there was no "psychological advantage" to be gained, nor "wind-up" Value, because.....
The Player with A-A outchipped the Player with A-K, & thus it was exit time for A-K man.
I fail to see why one would wish to wind up a player who's just been bust, or gain psychological advantage over a player who is no longer in the game. To deliberately humiliate a Busted Player can only be the act of someone who has issues.
It's traitional in all games, even the most physically brutal, such as Boxing or Rugby Union, to shake hands & say "welll done, enjoyed that" once it's over. In poker, tradition is usually "gg," or somesuch.
In the case quoted, the Slow-Roller qained no psychological advantage at all - quite the opposite. He lost the respect of his fellow Players.