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Call or fold?

ybyb
edited December 2010 in The Poker Clinic
Absolutely no reads on villain, though obv from his limp utg he is most likely a fish. It was a snap shove fwiw.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
Soulcrush Small blind   £0.50 £0.50 £309.89
yb Big blind   £1.00 £1.50 £97.50
  Your hole cards
  • 9
  • 7
     
spdbrkr Call   £1.00 £2.50 £111.84
hurst05 Fold        
jacksfool Fold        
STANTH Fold        
Soulcrush Fold        
yb Check        
Flop
   
  • 6
  • 8
  • J
     
yb Bet   £2.50 £5.00 £95.00
spdbrkr Call   £2.50 £7.50 £109.34
Turn
   
  • 2
     
yb Bet   £6.00 £13.50 £89.00
spdbrkr Call   £6.00 £19.50 £103.34
River
   
  • K
     
yb Bet   £15.00 £34.50 £74.00
spdbrkr All-in   £103.34 £137.84 £0.00
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Comments

  • edited December 2010
    fold Qc Xc here.
  • edited December 2010
    he's an awful reg which you'll find out

    yes it's a fold
  • edited December 2010

    No reads its a sigh fold innit

    although id be tempted!

  • edited December 2010
    well if he limps utg with 8 5 clubs which is the only hand your beating, it does look bluffy and i would be very tempted but i would need some more info to make the call......Na Fookit i call lol
  • edited December 2010
  • edited December 2010
  • edited December 2010
    SNAP SHOVE = RASH DECISION, i have played with this guy aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaages ago, if i remember he was over aggressive Hu post flop so i think he would have reraised the flop, everyone says its a fold and they are right but i would call here, spewmonkey ftw lol
  • ybyb
    edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Call or fold?:
    he's an awful reg which you'll find out yes it's a fold
    Posted by zing
    I suspected as much lol.

    I folded fwiw. Lolraise I like the idea of overbetting the flop, something I should probably do more in unraised pots.
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Call or fold?:
    In Response to Re: Call or fold? : I suspected as much lol. I folded fwiw. Lolraise I like the idea of overbetting the flop, something I should probably do more in unraised pots.
    Posted by yb
    what do you get by over betting the flop? im not familiar with this??
  • edited December 2010
    fold vs him, he overbets (well he overbets overbets lol) the nuts all the time. i was on the table but cant remember what the outcome was. 
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Call or fold?:
    In Response to Re: Call or fold? : what do you get by over betting the flop? im not familiar with this??
    Posted by N1CK

    you get a big pot
  • ybyb
    edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Call or fold?:
    fold vs him, he overbets (well he overbets overbets lol) the nuts all the time. i was on the table but cant remember what the outcome was. 
    Posted by hurst05
    I sat on my hands watching the timebar time out lol....scotty stylleee
  • edited December 2010
    Time wasting cant win by timing out. snap call and hate him if he has the winner. (fold obv)

    but really remove names newb.
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Call or fold?:
    In Response to Re: Call or fold? : you get a big pot
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    ok right...........so how does that help him?
  • edited December 2010
    no need to over bet flop either imo.
  • ybyb
    edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Call or fold?:
    Time wasting cant win by timing out. snap call and hate him if he has the winner. (fold obv) but really remove names newb.
    Posted by beaneh
    Don't really see the point in removing random players names that I have no reads on tbh.

    Plus I was multi-tabling at the time and deleting the name is an effort.
  • edited December 2010
    it's more everyone elses reaction + why tell him what everyone thinks of him + negative comments about peoples games aren't really what the clinic is intended for unless it's constructive :p
  • ybyb
    edited December 2010
    Point taken, I wasn't posting the hand for anyone to slate his game though tbf, just thought it was an interesting spot. Didn't even know he was a reg on here.
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Call or fold?:
    In Response to Re: Call or fold? : ok right...........so how does that help him?
    Posted by N1CK

    because winning a big pot /> winning a small pot?
  • edited December 2010
    the pot is 2.5bbs on the flop if we pot flop turn and river the final pot will be  2.5*27 67.5bbs


    if we overbet the flop for lets say 4bb then we pot turn and river the final pot will be (2.5+8)*9 94.5bbs

    by betting 1.5bbs more on the flop we can increase the potential final pot size by 27bbs

    btw we have 9high if villain folds at any point in the hand its not a bad thing
  • edited December 2010
    overbetting just gets in against a range we lose to, I think we get same range to call fold with a smaller bet.
  • edited December 2010
    1) who said we were going to bluff the river if we miss?
    2) have fun hitting draws and finding out theres only 5bbs in the pot. (we wont go into the whole exploitable thing)
    3) wat.
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Call or fold?:
    1) who said we were going to bluff the river if we miss? 2) have fun hitting draws and finding out theres only 5bbs in the pot. (we wont go into the whole exploitable thing) 3) wat.
    Posted by LOL_RAISE
    This cat knows his biscuits. I wouldn't be too rushed to play him. Believe.
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Call or fold?:
    In Response to Re: Call or fold? : So  if you miss your draw on the river what are you going to do??? Raise check/fold ....confused .com you can build the pot with big draws but it is key to control the pot size, so that you can give up on the river if opponent is persistent or have enough fold equity to pull off the final barrel  oh and learn your odds then you will understand my last reason, its just not +EV 
    Posted by WHOAMI196
    lol we have an OESFD  and you are saying that betting is -EV

    /thread?
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Call or fold?:
    In Response to Re: Call or fold? : No did not say that but its not Positive expected value is it!!!! 
    Posted by WHOAMI196

    it is
  • edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Call or fold?:
    In Response to Re: Call or fold? : why is it??  BTW were talking about over betting the pot to gain a bigger pot! without a MADE hand!!!
    Posted by WHOAMI196

    whenever we flop an OESFD then its fairly standard to assume all of our outs are clean.

    with the amount of equity an OESFD has, then we are a favourite against most hands.


  • ybyb
    edited December 2010
    Whoami, your posts make little sense tbf. When we bet we never give ourselves worse than 1-1 on our money, and seeing as we have better than 50% equity against his range any amount we bet is +EV.

    By betting a larger amount on the flop we can maximise winnings for when we do hit (as obv size of value bets on future streets are normally in proportion to pot size).
  • ybyb
    edited December 2010
    In Response to Re: Call or fold?:
    In Response to Re: Call or fold? : OMG Im just going to be repeating myself here m8........to put it simply if you risk £2 to win £1 then ur giving yourself 1-2 so int that worse than 1-1 anyhoo iv debated long enough on this subject a bit fed up of it if im honest just trying to point out that over betting is pointless.
    Posted by WHOAMI196
    You're wrong. In your example we are wagering £2 to win a total of £3 if we end up having the best hand (the £1 that was in the pot and an additional £2 that the opponent must pay to continue in the hand). This means we are receiving odds of 3/2.

    To prove that its +EV I'll assume his equity is exactly 50% against me and he never folds to the flop bet, and for sake of argument I bet £5.
    My EV = (2.5 + 5)*0.5 - 5*0.5 = 1.25

    This is a positive value hence the overbet is +EV. In reality he will fold to the flop bet sometimes and my equity is better than 50% if he continues so its even more +EV.
  • ybyb
    edited December 2010
    we are getting 1/2 that we win the pot by him folding the flop, but seeing as our equity in the hand is not 0 that is not relevant.

    but you tilt me so I'm going to stop now.
  • edited December 2010
    This post is tilting me and I've got nothing to do with it. Dunno why you even bother posting hands yb. Only people who can help you would never reply. Getting advice from 2p 4p players isnt going to help your game. You played it fine. And you bet pot on flop. Hardly an overbet. Defo not -ev. All this talk about odds on flop is so irrelevant.

    Edit - just reread the thread. I didnt realise lol_raise suggested overbetting the flop. Thought people were saying you bet too big on flop.
    Pretty hard to build a big pot in a limped pot anyway. Overbetting flop defo isnt -EV, but I think you played it best, because as beaneh said, overbetting pushes out so many weaker hands. That might call and fold on turn.
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