AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney

Dudeskin8

Doing very well so far 7/32 and generally hoovering up most pots easily then get this spot against a bigger stack....

Richard49	Small blind		150.00	150.00	4685.00
X	Big blind		300.00	450.00	26965.00
	Your hole cards	A A
Dudeskin8	Raise		700.00	1150.00	21320.00
tiptaptoe	Fold
troggman	Fold
Richard49	Fold
X	Call		400.00	1550.00	26565.00
Flop
		6 10 2
X	Check
Dudeskin8	Bet		900.00	2450.00	20420.00
X	Raise		2450.00	4900.00	24115.00
Dudeskin8

N1CK

do you have any reads/notes on him? i would just call and see what happens on the turn

Dudeskin8

No reads at all, fairly new to the table.

RogueCell

I push and redraw for flush or bink my ace on river

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney:

do you have any reads/notes on him? i would just call and see what happens on the turn
Posted by N1CK

+1 with no reads

seppe

its a simople all in. if he catches his flush ohhhh well but im guessin yr ahead post flop ship it everyday if he hit a set b glad u aint dohhhh lol

Dudeskin8

Well I just called the raise then get this bet on the turn...

X	Check
Dudeskin8	Bet		900.00	2450.00	20420.00
X	Raise		2450.00	4900.00	24115.00
Dudeskin8	Call		1550.00	6450.00	18870.00
Turn
		K
X	Bet		3333.00	9783.00	20782.00
Dudeskin8

unknown_username

Very tricky spot. Looks like a set or a big pocket pair vs big pocket pair. I would be edging towards a fold as something doesnt seem right here. You say you are comfortable hoovering up the pots so i would fold probably. He has your stack covered, too risky imo as he looks like he might shove the river.

Whichever way i go in these spots seems to be the wrong move lol!

N1CK

even tho i hate it when they type their bets out i call again and see what the river brings

Dudeskin8

Ok well for some reason I made the call but certainly wasn't happy or proud of it, and generally was praying for a check on river but in the back of my mind knew it wasn't coming, god I hate curiosity !

River
		3
X	All-in		20782.00	33898.00	0.00
Dudeskin8

FlashFlush

Its a very dry flop, if he has a set then GG UL, I would re-raise to 6k because he may still think he can get you to fold, if he shoves then call, if he flats then ship the turn.

I'm guessing the fact you have put this on here he had a set, but thats just a cooler on a flop like that IMO.

Ads2kuk

Yeah, I agree with FlashFlush, Im also re popping the flop to around 9k...Definitely ship it on turn if he just flats that.

Lets hope he has played A10 like it's the nuts.....lol

N1CK

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney:

Its a very dry flop, if he has a set then GG UL, I would re-raise to 6k because he may still think he can get you to fold, if he shoves then call, if he flats then ship the turn. I'm guessing the fact you have put this on here he had a set, but thats just a cooler on a flop like that IMO.
Posted by FlashFlush

hows it a cooler on that flop? its pretty dry apart from a fd which we have the Ace, i think getting it in that deep  in late stages on that flop is pretty bad

FlashFlush

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney:

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney : hows it a cooler on that flop? its pretty dry apart from a fd which we have the Ace, i think getting it in that deep  in late stages on that flop is pretty bad
Posted by N1CK

OOOO he check raised me he must have the nuts OK ill fold AA on a 10 high raggy flop... WP

FlashFlush

One other thing I would say about this hand, is your raise pre should probably of been higher. It was just as effective this time, but in future raising just over a min raise from UTG can be dangerous. If the player to your left calls then you could find yourself going into the flop 3 - 4 way because others will come along for value.

Dont get me wrong, I like the small raises late in MTTs, I normally raise about 2.2 - 3x the blind depending on my position and strength of hand, but in this spot I'd be making it 3x as you only want 1 oppo.

N1CK

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney:

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney : OOOO he check raised me he must have the nuts OK ill fold AA on a 10 high raggy flop... WP
Posted by FlashFlush

ooo why so defensive? lol, i didnt say fold the flop nor the turn, your just sooo lol

N1CK

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney:

One other thing I would say about this hand, is your raise pre should probably of been higher. It was just as effective this time, but in future raising just over a min raise from UTG can be dangerous. If the player to your left calls then you could find yourself going into the flop 3 - 4 way because others will come along for value. Dont get me wrong, I like the small raises late in MTTs, I normally raise about 2.2 - 3x the blind depending on my position and strength of hand, but in this spot I'd be making it 3x as you only want 1 oppo.
Posted by FlashFlush

when it get to the river what hands do you think he has and what hands does he think we have?

FlashFlush

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney:

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney : ooo why so defensive? lol, i didnt say fold the flop nor the turn, your just sooo lol
Posted by N1CK

Because no matter what I say you always have to make a negative comment about it, I don't know who you are, I dont think iv ever played you before but you seem to have major issues with me. It all started when I qualified for Total Player and you slagged me off for ages, just give it a rest jeez.  Try working on your own game before critisizing mine all the time.

P.S it was an interesting read comparing our MTT graphs on sharkscope.

FlashFlush

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney:

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney : when it get to the river what hands do you think he has and what hands does he think we have?
Posted by N1CK

His river bet looks desperate. Its hard to know with no reads, but the pot is around 12k and he has shoved 20k. If he has a set surely he puts a value bet in of about 5-7k?

I think he puts us on 7's - 9's maybe K10/Q10 and is trying to get us to fold. The trouble is we haven't asked any questions by flat calling and are showing massive weakness so not shoving/betting the river strongly is worse play than doing it with air.

Dudeskin8

Thanks for the replies, well in the end I folded the river as felt I could get my money in better at some stage down the line but I asked him what he had and he sent me this PM..... Yep Flashy was right.

Richard49	Small blind		150.00	150.00	4685.00
Ploppy33	Big blind		300.00	450.00	26965.00
	Your hole cards	9 Q
Dudeskin8	Raise		700.00	1150.00	21320.00
tiptaptoe	Fold
troggman	Fold
Richard49	Fold
Ploppy33	Call		400.00	1550.00	26565.00
Flop
		6 10 2
Ploppy33	Check
Dudeskin8	Bet		900.00	2450.00	20420.00
Ploppy33	Raise		2450.00	4900.00	24115.00
Dudeskin8	Call		1550.00	6450.00	18870.00
Turn
		K
Ploppy33	Bet		3333.00	9783.00	20782.00
Dudeskin8	Call		3333.00	13116.00	15537.00
River
		3
Ploppy33	All-in		20782.00	33898.00	0.00
Dudeskin8	Fold
Ploppy33	Muck
Ploppy33	Win		13116.00		13116.00
Ploppy33	Return		20782.00	0.00	33898.00

N1CK

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney:

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney : Because no matter what I say you always have to make a negative comment about it, I don't know who you are, I dont think iv ever played you before but you seem to have major issues with me. It all started when I qualified for Total Player and you slagged me off for ages, just give it a rest jeez.  Try working on your own game before critisizing mine all the time. P.S it was an interesting read comparing our MTT graphs on sharkscope.
Posted by FlashFlush

it seems your the one with the hang up lol, i am working on my game thats why i post and ask questions i think you really need to get over yourself son, i disagree with you saying reraising the flop is bad you should give me some good reasons why you think its good instead of throwing your toys out of your pram and acting like a big kid

N1CK

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney:

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney : His river bet looks desperate. Its hard to know with no reads, but the pot is around 12k and he has shoved 20k. If he has a set surely he puts a value bet in of about 5-7k? I think he puts us on 7's - 9's maybe K10/Q10 and is trying to get us to fold. The trouble is we haven't asked any questions by flat calling and are showing massive weakness so not shoving/betting the river strongly is worse play than doing it with air.
Posted by FlashFlush

we dont need to raise him for information we get it anyway by calling and see his next actions, by the time this hand gets to the river we have so much more information and get value from the hands he folds if we raised the flop

N1CK

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney:

Thanks for the replies, well in the end I folded the river as felt I could get my money in better at some stage down the line but I asked him what he had and he sent me this PM..... Yep Flashy was right. Richard49 Small blind   150.00 150.00 4685.00 Ploppy33 Big blind   300.00 450.00 26965.00   Your hole cards 9 Q       Dudeskin8 Raise   700.00 1150.00 21320.00 tiptaptoe Fold         troggman Fold         Richard49 Fold         Ploppy33 Call   400.00 1550.00 26565.00 Flop     6 10 2       Ploppy33 Check         Dudeskin8 Bet   900.00 2450.00 20420.00 Ploppy33 Raise   2450.00 4900.00 24115.00 Dudeskin8 Call   1550.00 6450.00 18870.00 Turn     K       Ploppy33 Bet   3333.00 9783.00 20782.00 Dudeskin8 Call   3333.00 13116.00 15537.00 River     3       Ploppy33 All-in   20782.00 33898.00 0.00 Dudeskin8 Fold         Ploppy33 Muck         Ploppy33 Win   13116.00   13116.00 Ploppy33 Return   20782.00 0.00 33898.00
Posted by Dudeskin8

no he wasnt right because he would of reraised the flop and villain folds, if he calls flop and turn then uses the information he got (which he says in his last post) he calls river and doubles up and plays perfectly

FlashFlush

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney:

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney : we dont need to raise him for information we get it anyway by calling and see his next actions, by the time this hand gets to the river we have so much more information and get value from the hands he folds if we raised the flop
Posted by N1CK

You don't get any information by calling. If he is strong he bets every street, if he is weak he bets every street.

As for your next post, the way the villain played on the flop he was clearly determined to bluff us off this hand. My original post said re-raise to 6k, we still have about 17k left I think so it looks like we can still fold. I'm sure the villain will then shove to try and get us to fold but we snap him off and fist pump when he turns over Q high.

N1CK

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney:

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney : You don't get any information by calling. If he is strong he bets every street, if he is weak he bets every street. As for your next post, the way the villain played on the flop he was clearly determined to bluff us off this hand. My original post said re-raise to 6k, we still have about 17k left I think so it looks like we can still fold. I'm sure the villain will then shove to try and get us to fold but we snap him off and fist pump when he turns over Q high.
Posted by FlashFlush

i disagree flash i think you get just as much info calling as raising, as for flop i think he gives up alot when we 3 bet also he can get it in with overplayed fd and sets too so which we dont have great equity over and that deep just seems really bad to me, i do respect your comments and opinions but i like to give my own thoughts and like to talk about hands/plays etc i want to improve my game as much as anyone else does

YOUNG_GUN

I agree with flash here, he can possibly have a set but i would be re-raising aiming to get it in. If he has a set bit of a cooler but surely u go with ur instincts as i would as thats usually correct.


1 thing i hate about this hand why flat with flush draw out there still? wiii lets give them a free card effectively thats why i would re-raise and re-assess

Calling can sometimes give us information but raising gives us more

DOHHHHHHH

I'd be flatting this in position....

The turn is where I'd look to pot commit myself to the hand, we have the A of diamonds, so even if thv turn is a diamond, we can re-draw on the river.

If the turn is a diamond, not many people can fire three shots with worse than AA here, wether it be for value, or as a bluff......not a made hand on the flop anyway.

........ so in position I think we can call again on almost any turn card (or raise on a blank), again I think call or raising on the turn would be ok, given the stacks, we can still convince him he has FE on the river by just flatting the turn,(get value from bluffs) and he can also slow down and let us check behind with hands that beat us also (get to a cheaper showdown when we're behind).

Think position is V important in this hand.

With the ace of diamonds I think calling down is the way to go.

-----------------------------------------------------

I wanna be careful using this term, as I'm unsure about it, but if the turn was say the Q of diamonds, and villain pots the turn, and shoves a blank river......

Would you assume that his range is polarised to a bluff or the nuts? - For example he wouldn't bet again twice on the turn and river with a hand that beat us on the flop???

Or am I underestimating peoples ability to bet 3 streets for value with a set in siutations like this?

FlashFlush

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney:

In Response to Re: AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney : i disagree flash i think you get just as much info calling as raising, as for flop i think he gives up alot when we 3 bet also he can get it in with overplayed fd and sets too so which we dont have great equity over and that deep just seems really bad to me, i do respect your comments and opinions but i like to give my own thoughts and like to talk about hands/plays etc i want to improve my game as much as anyone else does
Posted by N1CK

Yeah its good to talk. There is always more than one way to play a hand and some1 elses view gives you angles you may not naturally go with.

Sorry if I snapped at you before, but lets face it you have rubbished my views a lot in the past and without reasoning why. Agree to disagree

beaneh

In Response to AA post flop facing raise 68 BB's deep late in tourney:

Doing very well so far 7/32 and generally hoovering up most pots easily then get this spot against a bigger stack.... Richard49 Small blind 150.00 150.00 4685.00 X Big blind   300.00 450.00 26965.00   Your hole cards A A       Dudeskin8 Raise   700.00 1150.00 21320.00 tiptaptoe Fold         troggman Fold         Richard49 Fold         X Call   400.00 1550.00 26565.00 Flop     6 10 2       X Check         Dudeskin8 Bet   900.00 2450.00 20420.00 X Raise   2450.00 4900.00 24115.00 Dudeskin8
Posted by Dudeskin8

Call the flop call/get it in on most turns. I'm not folding this hand on Sky, we has dem aces yo.

pryce6

I agree w N1CK fwiw. Calling flop is best, unless we know the villain is a complete idiot I don't think we can get it in good enough on the flop.

beaneh

3betting flop is pooo dont do it unless the guy is a one pair monkey.