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Shocked TAG called this, shame to miss
50/1 cash game, 5 handed. I've been playing pretty snug, only one real good player at the table other than me. I'm not really moving forwards or back, just treading water.
Tag makes it 2.75 to go gets two callers comes to me in the BB, I see 6d8d, pretty obliged to call.
Flop comes 345r, around £11 in pot.
SB opens for $15 I only have around £60 back, SB is a douche and been raising me weak all night, Im putting TAG on 8's or 9's, figure he has to fold to a jam, so I jam. My image is pretty tight, only really betting 2pr, made hand or big draw i feel.
TAG tanks then calls, all else folds. Shockingly he shows K5 off. I love it, having 14 outs. But I miss.
Still feel like its a good jam. Opinions? I do figure he folds an overpair to the action, as have been tight throughout
Tag makes it 2.75 to go gets two callers comes to me in the BB, I see 6d8d, pretty obliged to call.
Flop comes 345r, around £11 in pot.
SB opens for $15 I only have around £60 back, SB is a douche and been raising me weak all night, Im putting TAG on 8's or 9's, figure he has to fold to a jam, so I jam. My image is pretty tight, only really betting 2pr, made hand or big draw i feel.
TAG tanks then calls, all else folds. Shockingly he shows K5 off. I love it, having 14 outs. But I miss.
Still feel like its a good jam. Opinions? I do figure he folds an overpair to the action, as have been tight throughout
Comments
i dont like the jam, if he has overpair ur behind?? also surely u would re-raise pre any overpair right? would fold any possible 2 pair only a set really he can be worried about but u wouldnt jam as a rainbow flop
Yes behind against an over pair (8's or 9's) but this wasnt the issue. Issue was given the action from a family pot there arent that many hands that you're going to feel comfortable calling the action with. So it was a likely opponent folds / but if calls still have plenty of equity. Not really just calling in that spot given stack saize, not a big fan of folding either. If i call the £15, pots stands at £41, leaving me around £45 back.
But in answer to your query, player knowledge, bet sizing and his reaction to opening better.
4 way cheap flop, pricing in the blinds. There's alot to be concerned with, board + action.
Out of curiousity when some of you guys play do you just close your eyes and ears to player knowledge and table dynamics? Do you just sit there with 0 table awareness, never factoring in how individuals tend to bet/act.
Just doesnt seem that many of you dont think the knowledge gleamed from 1000's of hands played live against the same regs has any impact on a game. Which I truly find incredible.
Sorry bud, this "backhanded insult" wasnt directed at people like you, who are interested in discussion/analysis.
I'm just fed up of people who disregard others specific game/player knowledge/experience. Its easy to armchair analyse, without any of the contextual info/dynamic. I really dont get where some people are coming from. I think you should always use all the info at hand to close down your Opponents range, helping bet sizing through the streets, or avoiding potential pitfalls.
Just seems that there's a few people who get an ego trip out of being unduly critical when they dont really know what they are talking about.
I just dont get these "reads" you post. Why cant he have tonnes of other hands?
Im not a big fan of the shove with 2 bad players still in hand, villain may fold,not sure its often enough though. Generally you are a 2/1 dog if called and with stacksizes and prob dead money from sb its tough for him to fold imo Also your image is prob not as tight as you believe if he calls you here (or hes not a tag)
If I have a specific read, I post it. I have around 4 regular places I play, many of the same regs go to each. Playing the sameish stakes, at different venues. So against the specific regs I play I have played many many hours, countless hands. You get a pretty good vibe for the flow of their game, the level of confidence/anticipation they give off within a hand. Just literally a ton of things. How they look at their hand, card handling, chip handling, bet sizing, how chips are put in, how they announce their bet. But beyond this I have very specific tells on each of them.
If I didnt know the player, or have a particular read within a hand I've posted, i simply wouldnt include my read. I'd just put out a bet that I'd hope to be called by a range.
So I'm not talking hands vs random guy with three pints of lager in him that I've never met.
Not insuling anyone. Just stating that it's kind of rude to just ignore the nature of the post and attack a read. But this aside my post wasnt a reaction to one thing, but similar things through many threads of a similar ilk.
So it may seem an over reaction to you, but it isnt. But again you dont know a thing about me, yet you make this other grand assumption. I am simply tired of people posting comments that have little to do with the thread, attacking elements of the thread that they know very little about.
Yes the thread was opinions on the jam, not egotistically attacking a read.
This hand shows your reads arent always good. You put him on an overpair and thought he might fold. He called with TP (a 5!)GK
Use your reads, but imo you narrow ranges far too much on very little basis. Take your reads,tells etc as part of the picture, not the be all and end all of how to play the han
Also, as I said to you on another thread if the hand is that read based there is very little to gain from posting it on a forum
secondly, why are there 25p denomination chips in a .50/1 live game?!?!!?!?!?!?
and finally, the thing that i find frustrating about some of the threads you post is that you post a hand, with quite minimal detail about opponents other than something like 'hes a TAG, im a TAG, everyone else is terrible'.
then replies are posted based on the assumption that we dont have any reads or tells on him because none were given in the original post.
you come back into the thread and say that you have reads on villain which mean you think he has XYZ hands only in his range.
i dont think you will ever get good advice in the threads that you make unless you actually put your reads in the original post
If you have the villain so well marked that u can narrow his entire range down to 2 hands 88/99 then why would you ever want to put yourself in this stupid position where you are trying to make him fold an overpair when u have hardly any chippies and very few made/flopped nut hands?
Surely u can just school the sh it out of him with soul reads and play almost 100% perfectly against him if u can narrow his range to 2 poket pairs just by looking at him?
Yes not the best call pre, but getting nearly 5/1 last to act with suited gappers (6d8d) seems like a fair deal to me.
Guy is very TAG, on this occassion it was a complete mis read by me. He was really deep, so his range had obviously opened up measureably. I infact made a comment to him at the time stating as much. But I guarentee if you played big pots post where he was active you'd mostly come off on the wrong side of it. I did put him on that particular range of hand, however, given odds, it was mainly immaterial what his holdings were. I just put the read out there to explain my though process at the time. He wasnt the core of the dynamic either. There's still an opening bet, my raise and two people left to act behind me. My hand pretty much plays itself stack wise/action wise. I simply put the read out there, as a small part of the thread. Opponents holding were of minimal concern since i was sat so shallow at this point, as long as knowone holds 67, I'm not crushed by any hand that calls. I think it was clear I was looking for opinions on the shove. I was simply a bit taken back that this player took this line with that hand, given flop action. Perhaps I do need to re evaluate him overall though, as someone mentioned.
But lastly the main reason i spat my dummy out a little was that if someone posted a read within a thread, I'd simply accept it as is. They were sat at the table, understanding the dynamic and action seen. Attacking it really is needlesly critical and pretty arrogant. Its just trying to ridicule somebody elses though process needlessly. Whether their read is wrong or right.
As a rule your right about the TAG player mate. But he knows exactly what your opinion is of him, then goes right ahead and punishes you with it. He 3 bets you and you fold pretty much every time. He knows that you know there are easier targets and milks the image. You should put him to the test a little more.
There is likely truth in this overall. But it adds to why he's such a good player bud. I dont neccessarily fold to the 3 bet for the reasons you think though. I know that he likely does do what you say, the issue is discerning which it is, the 3 bet strong or 3 bet knowing I'm only strong enough to raise. Either way this guy isnt going to make it easy on you post, especially OOP.
The main reason I fold is I'm happy to lull him into a habit of doing this - believing I'll fold. Allowing me to win a big deepstack pot later on, which often becomes the case. As good as he is, he drinks more than he should at the table, his mistakes are made later on.
also if you know his game well enough to be able to soulread him, then maybe he soulread you for 86s too.
The second his chips went in he said he put me on the draw, not the specific 6/8 but specific enough. So he obv had a good enough read on the goals of my jam.
Was about 3am, I had about £220, he has around £350. Guy raises CO to £3.50, I call on the button with KcQc, "TAG" calls from the BB.
K58r £11 in pot. BB checks opener makes it £4.5, I dont think he's strong so make £13. TAG in the BB asks for a count and bets £65. I already felt the opener would fold which he does, leaving me with a decision. Been 3 bet by the TAG again. I feel like he's stepped out a little, I shove. To my horror he INSTA calls. He says "I have (a) K", flipping K9, I'm pretty shocked at how weak he is with the three bet.
I win, he grumbles that I slow rolled him on the flop, making it look like I had a descision before I jammed. I explain that I DID have a decision, he must know I have (a) K,that isnt going to be weaker than the K9, that i wouldn't even be in the pot with a hand that weak or weaker, so when he 3 bets me the least I can really be putting him on is 2pr....He asks me to explain again, not really comprehending what I'm saying.
Silly me
I promise he knew exactly what you meant in the post hand grumble.
Hypocrisy thy name is you I think bud.
But there is truth to what you say, had to think when he beat me into the pot he had the set I potentially feared.
DONT EVER DO THIS. just say 'ul bud' and readjust your read from 'TAG' to 'fish who goes broke with top pair deep'