have to agree with alot of you on here

DOHHHHHHH

It is yeah.

I've tried lots of things to turn it around, the break is the last resort. I tried everything I could to avoid it, but all else has failed. 

Don't really believe that breaks make a difference, but then again I've never really had a self imposed 1 so I'll see.

ckd

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here:

It's quite simple from my view. When we ran the RNG threads, on a number of occasions the management were invited to comment on what was being 'seen' by players. The only reply was that the site has a certificate of conformity for the RNG. When questions were asked no answer was forthcoming. The same questions were asked of the Alderney GGC and RNG testers. They didn't or wouldn't or couldn't answer them. At that point the thread was closed! It seems a simple solution to answer those questions and put this thing to bed once and for all - and yet they don't do that.  I only have one question - WHY?
Posted by elsadog

theres somthing not right alot can see it alot cant just the way it is

but you cant keep seeing what we are seeing and say theres nothing wrong

when playing on the ipoker network it got to the point where you could tell what was coming next

i.e go in with aces called by 82 comes 853 j with 8or 2 on the river and to me its gone the same way here

four card straights and flushes are begining to come more and more on here

1 outers hitting more and more and overpairs getting crushed by silly things on the river

i know thats poker and thats what happens sometime but the amount im seeing it happens is worse than when i played on ipoker..which tells me theres somthing wrong

sky has never been 1 to post its always been left to tk and sky rich to do...getting an anwser out of the suits is like winning the lotto back to back..which is wrong seeing that the forum is meant to be a big part of sky and they promote it like they do...

only way to tell if to play elsewhere and see what happens and how you find the other sites

ive found theres a huge difference with them

play seems much better
alot more holds up
alot less suckouts i.e four card runs/straights
and hands hold up alot more

but thats just me

DOHHHHHHH

How come the pros are still playing/earning a living here then ckd?

I ask this all the time to people who feel "something has changed" but nobody has ever answered it.

ckd

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here:

How come the pros are still playing/earning a living here then ckd? I ask this all the time to people who feel "something has changed" but nobody has ever answered it.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

i dont know mate 

should think that this is not the only place they play thought

not only that but the 4/5 big 1s on here

lol
ljamesl
dan
gliter

all part of tsp so have advantages of playing here ( not saying rigged ways meaning the benifits they have) 

maybe they have just got used to it being as it is and have adapted to it

for the everyday player i.e not pro it would show more maybe

but cannot anwser that 100%

but why if nothing has changed is there alot of regs saying they have noticed it
why does it seem alot different on other sites than here 

to many have noticed somthing for it to be just having a bad run

MAXALLY

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here:

How come the pros are still playing/earning a living here then ckd? I ask this all the time to people who feel "something has changed" but nobody has ever answered it.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

....because they all have special levers to use in times of need!

Allegedly!!

TBF Doh, if you got your head out of Sky's behind ever now and again, and actually listened and understood what some of the old school are saying to you sometimes, you might have a more balanced view.

I hope your downswing doesn't last too long. Mine is 8 months and counting but that is because I am coming to realise I am a bad player and nothing to do with on line poker! )

DOHHHHHHH

An 8 month downswing is insane, I would have quit 6 months ago if I were you !

It's nothing to do with me supporting sky, I'm the first person to sl*g the site off when it goes t*ts up, but inventing problems that don't exist is just silly.

I'd love to see "all these good players" that are doubting the site all of a sudden.

Magicalman seemed to think that "lots of good players" had left too.

I can't think of any.

Elsadog is 1, but he plays the site every night.

Stein is another, he's on the site every single day playing 4 tables with £500+ in play at a time.

The Irishman is the only 1 who has left.

Who are all these superstars that have disappeared due to concerns with the rng????

Lucy7777?

----------------------------

And to conclude the pro player debate with ckd......

If the pros that play on sky were in any doubt about the validity and fairness of the rng, they would not play here. 

debdobs_67

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here:

An 8 month downswing is insane, I would have quit 6 months ago if I were you ! It's nothing to do with me supporting sky, I'm the first person to sl*g the site off when it goes t*ts up, but inventing problems that don't exist is just silly. I'd love to see "all these good players" that are doubting the site all of a sudden. Magicalman seemed to think that "lots of good players" had left too. I can't think of any. Elsadog is 1, but he plays the site every night. Stein is another, he's on the site every single day playing 4 tables with £500+ in play at a time. The Irishman is the only 1 who has left. Who are all these superstars that have disappeared due to concerns with the rng???? Lucy7777? ---------------------------- And to conclude the pro player debate with ckd...... If the pros that play on sky were in any doubt about the validity and fairness of the rng, they would not play here. 
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Not saying that what im (about to say) is true.........BUT............ maybe they have adapted to what is the 'norm' on this site? I for one have changed my game completely and i am without a doubt now getting paid alot more frequently than i ever did in the past,especially at the CASH levels that i play.As i have said this maybe means i am a better player now OR that i have adapted to what i regularly see/expect to see.........WHO KNOWS xxx 

DAVEYZZ

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here:

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here : i dont know mate  should think that this is not the only place they play thought not only that but the 4/5 big 1s on here lol ljamesl dan gliter all part of tsp so have advantages of playing here ( not saying rigged ways meaning the benifits they have)  maybe they have just got used to it being as it is and have adapted to it for the everyday player i.e not pro it would show more maybe but cannot anwser that 100% but why if nothing has changed is there alot of regs saying they have noticed it why does it seem alot different on other sites than here  to many have noticed somthing for it to be just having a bad run
Posted by ckd

what? they have got used to it being fixed and adapted accordingly?.
i have the answer and its very simple..........300+MILLION hands.

how many hands have you played on here......

djblacke04

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here:

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here : what? they have got used to it being fixed and adapted accordingly?. i have the answer and its very simple..........300+ MILLION hands. how many hands have you played on here......
Posted by DAVEYZZ

you can only comment on the hands that you have personally played...i have played quite a few, and no doubt daveyzz you have played more,but it is the frequency of the action hands/bad beats that s getting everyone ...rattled...maybe if sky wanted to be open or as an example they could release the entire hand history of a Main Event, then it could be analysed and percentages evaluated...

DOHHHHHHH

every hand from 1 8pm tourny wouldn't be enough to prove anything....

But it's very likely that the overall figure will be close to what it should be for all in ev, probably 4/5% either way.

Analyse all in ev for every hand in 1000,000 main events and it will be spot on what it should be. Maybe 0.1% either way.

I'm not sure how you would assess or conclude the amount of "rigged action hands" though, which is the problem people seem to have, as there are so many variables.

I would love it if sky did this and it showed the best hand held up more than it should do! hahaha

pod1

just gonna put my 2p worth in here,im not on one-sided or the other, but the game itself is evolving, even in the 5yrs i have been playing the game has become more and more aggro.people are playing very marginal hands(thats being kind) and if we are playing strong starting hands against more people playing these types of hands, more bad beats are going to occur. on the flipside have i changed my game to compensate "said unnatural occurrences?" luckily i dont have to to much because i have a naturally nitty game and dont go for max value even with a very strong hand.is this wrong, yes is it sensible yes.i dont win big but i dont lose big either but it means i am winning nicely at the cash tables. the big problems come when its mtts and your tourny ends on one of these beats, it hurts more but also stands out more. people say that because you play on line you go through more hands at a faster rate you see more bad beats which maybe be true but its nothing like the amount of hands you see playing multi cash tables. i only play 4 tables and god knows how many hands i see in a 3 hr session but its amazing after more sessions than not i am only up or down 1 bi because the variance seems to even out. so back to the start, do i think its fixed no! do i have an open mind to all arguments for it being fixed, yes, but i have not heard any yet to warrant me to stop playing, no.   phil

AMYBR

Even then I think perhaps not DJ, still not a big enough sample size at all.

The only constructive argument I can muster is that at reasonable stakes cash wise the standard of play helps control the action.  Were not seeing people call off 2/3's of their stack binking the river miracle.  As the moneys in, or not in as the decisions are made earlier in the hand.  People dont count on sucking out.  Informed decisions are made, your commiting or your not.  Your not calling down on an insane prayer.  Also most often HU pots.

The crazy action seen in multi way pots, where hands shouldnt be in at all, definately not being in at turn river for crazy draws for chunks of stack brings about some of the serial suckout perception perceived.

I do think some of the reasonable stakes players forget just how crazy it is down there.  Its a different game entirely IMO, laced with miefields that are pretty darn hard to maneouver around

DOHHHHHHH

But the wackyness of the play in a hand is taken into consideration when calculating all in ev.

It's about the equity our hand has when the money goes in.

Often if we get aces in pre v 45s and TJs, our equity is like 60%? something like that.......If I hold, I'm running +ev.

Likewise, if I have a 20% chance of winning the hand when the money goes in, and I lose, I'm running -ev.

If they calculate all in ev on every single all in confrontation throughout a 500 runner tourny, it's very likely that the figure will be about right. 

Ofc it's just as likely that the best hand holds too often, than it is the worst hand loses too often, over such a small sample size.

djblacke04

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here:

But the wackyness of the play in a hand is taken into consideration when calculating all in ev. It's about the equity our hand has when the money goes in. Often if we get aces in pre v 45s and TJs, our equity is like 60%? something like that.......If I hold, I'm running +ev. Likewise, if I have a 20% chance of winning the hand when the money goes in, and I lose, I'm running -ev. If they calculate all in ev on every single all in confrontation throughout a 500 runner tourny, it's very likely that the figure will be about right.  Ofc it's just as likely that the best hand holds too often, than it is the worst hand loses too often, over such a small sample size.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

cmon...we are not even talking about silly hands, we are talking about the runner runner 4 card flush...for example..

debdobs_67

I really really DO think that some people here ARE seriously seriously NOT believing their own eyes....................................pmsl

DOHHHHHHH

The possibiliy of a back door, or runner runner flush draw is is taken into consideration when calculating a players equity in the hand.

It doesn't matter how it comes, if you're 20% to win a hand, you're 20%!!! No matter how it happens.

You have to use statistics, in the form of percentages, if you are going to calculate all in ev.

AK v QQ is about 50 50 pre flop.

That includes the times that the board runs out A A K Q Q.

On another table the same scenario may be happening, and it comes A 2 4 6 9.

In which case, over the tiny sample of 2 hands, both hands will have run to expectation, assuming the money went in pre flop

ckd

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here:

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here : what? they have got used to it being fixed and adapted accordingly?. i have the answer and its very simple..........300+ MILLION hands. how many hands have you played on here......
Posted by DAVEYZZ

didnt say it was fixed at all said something has changed

not to shore how many hands ive played but played here for the last 2+ years nearly every day so should think ive had alot of hands

ckd

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here:

just gonna put my 2p worth in here,im not on one-sided or the other, but the game itself is evolving, even in the 5yrs i have been playing the game has become more and more aggro.people are playing very marginal hands(thats being kind) and if we are playing strong starting hands against more people playing these types of hands, more bad beats are going to occur. on the flipside have i changed my game to compensate "said unnatural occurrences?" luckily i dont have to to much because i have a naturally nitty game and dont go for max value even with a very strong hand.is this wrong, yes is it sensible yes.i dont win big but i dont lose big either but it means i am winning nicely at the cash tables. the big problems come when its mtts and your tourny ends on one of these beats, it hurts more but also stands out more. people say that because you play on line you go through more hands at a faster rate you see more bad beats which maybe be true but its nothing like the amount of hands you see playing multi cash tables. i only play 4 tables and god knows how many hands i see in a 3 hr session but its amazing after more sessions than not i am only up or down 1 bi because the variance seems to even out. so back to the start, do i think its fixed no! do i have an open mind to all arguments for it being fixed, yes, but i have not heard any yet to warrant me to stop playing, no.   phil
Posted by pod1

could be the reason mate

just dont see why its not going the same on the bigger sites thought thats the part i dont understand

anyway this is just going round and round

i just wish you all gl alot of good people on here (including you dohhhhhhh) hope you all do well and hope to play alot of you live someday

DOHHHHHHH

All that has changed ckd is that recently you have seen some super weird outdraws and big collisions.

Don't look at the last week/month/3 months as an isolated period.

Look at the last 2 years. 

If you didn't see anything strange for 18 months, then I would argue that you were due to see some wierdness.

It does happen elsewhere, everywhere poker is played, you will see strange hands.

You're right about 1 thing though, the players are alot better elsewhere!!! 

GL 2 u 2!

debdobs_67

Dohhh you may long continue playin the 'blind man' lol as can some of the rest of you.

As for me?

Well my eyes are wide open

I see what i always see and THAT is what i believe

Will i stop playin here?

Noooo i wont cos i reckon i have this site fairly sussed

How long have i played here?

About 2 years,so i reckon i have a pretty gd idea of how things pan out

gl all xxx

DOHHHHHHH

So you actually base your strategy around trying to read the rng?

Rather than trying to read and outplay your opponents?

debdobs_67

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here:

So you actually base your strategy around trying to read the rng? Rather than trying to read and outplay your opponents?
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Both dohhh,defo both

But LIVE i only,only ever have to worry about the oppo

WHY?

Cos i know 100% that no hands have been tampered with in any way at all

TRUE?

xxx

DOHHHHHHH

False. lol.

Both are random, online obviously is more random as there is no human error involved (not shuffling properly etc)

I think your results would improve if you just concentrated on outplaying your opponents rather than trying to read something that is un-readable.

unknown_username

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here:

False. lol. Both are random, online obviously is more random as there is no human error involved (not shuffling properly etc) I think your results would improve if you just concentrated on outplaying your opponents rather than trying to read something that is un-readable.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

You have no idea what random is do you?

The occasional bad shuffle is random - whether the dealer shuffles all 52 cards or misses a couple it's still random because he has no control over the outcome - they may not be shuffled very well but they are still random. A mechanically shuffled deck will never ever ever ever ever be random. 

Also something cannot be more random - it either is or it isn't - and mechanical isn't - FACT.

DOHHHHHHH

Well if its quads over quads 1 hand, and he doesn't shuffle properly, it's likely that there will be 2/3 of a kind or a double paired board next time.

Hence more action hands.

unknown_username

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here:

Well if its quads over quads 1 hand, and he doesn't shuffle properly, it's likely that there will be 2/3 of a kind or a double paired board next time. Hence more action hands.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Now you know you're talking nonsense - stop it.

Go and read up on what is and isn't random. Go and read up on what pseudo-random is. While you're at it read up on pseudo- random number generation. IBM is a good place to trawl for it.

The only thing close to being random in a RNG is the trigger or seed and that has nothing to do with randomising the shuffle it's simply a security measure to stop people being able to determine what the cards will be. They couldn't do that if it was truly random.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here:

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here : Now you know you're talking nonsense - stop it. Go and read up on what is and isn't random. Go and read up on what pseudo-random is. While you're at it read up on pseudo- random number generation. IBM is a good place to trawl for it.
Posted by elsadog

I know I've got alot of time on my hands, but even I've got better things to do than go into all that nonsense. 

I understand variance, that's enough for me. 

I'd rather read a poker book, or do something constructive to help my game instead. 

unknown_username

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here:

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here :
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Dohhhhhhh struck dumb - I don't believe it  )

DOHHHHHHH

Haha, I thought I best add some words.

unknown_username

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here:

In Response to Re: have to agree with alot of you on here : I know I've got alot of time on my hands, but even I've got better things to do than go into all that nonsense.  I understand variance, that's enough for me.  I'd rather read a poker book, or do something constructive to help my game instead. 
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

It isn't nonsense - it's what you are commenting on for about 3 hours a day. A little insight would do you a power of good.