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The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8)
Ok after some discussion with some fellow low stake players ive decided to start a thread purley aimed at the low stakes. Now this doesnt mean high stake players cant comment but it will only feature NL4 and NL8 hands. No bad beats please keep that for A51 and BBV.
Ok so ill start with a fairly standard NL4 hand.
As stated this is fairly standard. Should i be raising more pre? And is it fair to just check fold flop?
Ok so ill start with a fairly standard NL4 hand.
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Small blind | £0.02 | £0.02 | £3.32 | ||
| Big blind | £0.04 | £0.06 | £4.42 | ||
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| Call | £0.04 | £0.10 | £3.66 | ||
| The_Don90 | Raise | £0.24 | £0.34 | £3.94 | |
| Call | £0.24 | £0.58 | £4.56 | ||
| Call | £0.24 | £0.82 | £3.60 | ||
| Call | £0.22 | £1.04 | £3.10 | ||
| Fold | |||||
| Call | £0.20 | £1.24 | £3.46 | ||
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| Check | |||||
| Check | |||||
| The_Don90 | Check | ||||
| Bet | £0.68 | £1.92 | £3.88 | ||
| Call | £0.68 | £2.60 | £2.92 | ||
| Fold | |||||
| Fold | |||||
| The_Don90 | Fold | ||||
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| Bet | £0.80 | £3.40 | £3.08 | ||
| All-in | £2.92 | £6.32 | £0.00 | ||
| Call | £2.12 | £8.44 | £0.96 | ||
| Show |
| ||||
| Show |
| ||||
| River | |||||
| |||||
| Win | Straight to the 6 | £7.80 | £7.80 | ||
Comments
Hand 1) i would bet out on the flop you have raised pre and most people probably fold unless they have the ace, if called then i'd shut down turn and river
hand 2) Bet more flop, re-raise and put him in on turn, also whats the point in just flatting in the end he has 40p whether your good or not just put him in you blouse
Hand 1) - I am 1000000000000% checking this flop with an ace on the board. There is no way in a month of sundays someone does not have an Ace with that many callers here. A raise here, in my experience always induces a call....hes not going away, what are you doing on the turn? fire another, hes not going away is he? Hes got top pair....which is the nuts of course. Check fold, grumble quietly at the unfairness of it all, and make a note.
2) played fine but I would jam the turn
Hand 2 - pre fine, I'd pot bet the flop and maybe reraise on turn
i had been getting good cards in early pos and was opening a fair bit in late pos, i started off iso raising to 20p but everyone folds so reduced it to 16 but still folding, was nice to get free money pre but i wanted action and to play streets so opened smaller
River they have 84p behind so bet that
99 hand, took a lot of looking at to realise u were in sb, for me i do not raise pre here, u will get called, set mine with it, not a lot of flops u want to see that u like, think of them as 2s, i think ur ahead of this guy but im not sue about the call, uv still someone to act behind u that makes it an easier fold even tho i dont think the bb has much
forget the opponents action in those hands and think to urself what you are trying to achieve by raising, what ur plan should u miss n see bad flops,
what happens when ur 99 flops 2 overcards. whats ur plan then, c bet n get called, remember people will call down light on this level. (2nd pair no kicker, gutshot,etc)
what hapens when when u raise and get flat called with aj and u miss the board, same as above.
remember its easier to play these in position once you have seen ur opponents actions on the streets. allows you to decide how strong they are.
I dont like standard c bet at nl4 as generally you will get called a) either miles behind, b) by draws c) in hope they get lucky so i would be happier to check/call or even check/fold given my read on my opponent. What do you do if your opponent re-raises on flop? or shoves all in? for pot control i prefer check/call if you still feel your Ace & Queen is good
I cant really comment on other hands at mo as busy at work
Serious comment though: I believe now, and have always believed that playing this level is detrimental to any skillful players game. HEAR ME OUT.
Your not playing against people who are thinking logically in the main. Players who dont understand position, equity or odds. They wont fold draws, or allow you to make skillful creative play, that a co erced table image will allow. It just seems to me that when you balance off the time your hand holds against the insanity where you lose to outdraws in multi way pots it cant be worth it.
I dont doubt you have a good game. But I think the way a person must adapt their game to win at this level would in fact instill habits that would be harmful at the higher levels.
I'm fully prepared to be wrong, as I have said frequently my online cash sucks a/s's. But I crush live (mostly). This is just the way I have always seen it.
However alot of you mentiod above is true, and so table selection becomes quite important. You cant sit down at a table with 5 completely awful players that will call down anything.....you always end up going multi way 4 handed. It has to be balanced.
My personal preference is to find a table with 1 or 2 other 4nl regs and 3 calling stations. Between the regs the calling stations get torn apart, inevitably leave busto. Then you normally have other people come and try their luck as they see some big stacks and want a cut of the action. It also means you know there are 2 other players that you can be a little bit more creative with, and stops you getting too bored.
That said you DO want these awful players there, you know your ahead alot of the time, and just have to suck it up when Your AK vs their K5 gets beat by a 5 on the river......I dont care too much. Reload, get it back.
Of course eventually other regs sit down and there are not enough fish to go round.....I then get up and leave.....unless im really enjoying the action and dont mind risking my winnings.
However i would say table selection at NL4 is less important at NL4 than at those higher levels. I usually look for decent stacks with a known fish in amoungst. Although since on the whole their 90% fish im kool playing 5 randoms if they all have 50BB or more.
I tried sitting down at the 4nl 10 max tables the other night.......Oh my god. SUPER TILT!!!! It was like playing facebook poker it was that bad.
Raise 5 x BB? 5 callers
Raise 6 x BB 5 callers
Raise........in fact sod this im off!!!
It was like me vs 5 other players.......well it was....but you know what I mean. They ganged up on me I swear!!
No it doesn't. Being at a table with 5 people who are poor players is the best kind of table. Players like Durrr/Good2CU/Raptor/Feldman built their multi-million pound rolls in the pre 2006 games where the fish to shark ratio was 5:1.
People who say they are too good to beat poor players are fish themselves. Adapt to the table.
And Don like I said before, get some more money in and just grind. You are wasting time with all these posts. You must have been doing the same kind of hands here for at least a year now. If you can't beat nl4 comfortably by now then you should seriously think of quitting. Don't play MTTs. Try and get 100£ into your account so you have a decent roll for nl4 then follow the roll advice that Doh posted the other day. That is all you need to succeed is to follow that one post.
You should have all the skills now to seriously grind and build a roll. SO DO IT. Don't withdraw. Don't take shots at MTTs you aren't rolled for. If you fancy a MTT day then stick to the ones in your roll plus the odd sat or two.
If you can put in 100£, multitable and get 6 hours in per day I see no reason at all why you can't have at least a grand in your account by the end of June. Once you hit that figure you can then start taking out a bit a week to save/enjoy life with.
Follows Doh's post to the letter. And I rarely say that lol.
Im not saying I am to good to beat poor players either - if it came over that way then that isnt what I intended.