The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8)

YOUNG_GUN

I think you are spot on there scotty, people saying they cant beat nl4.... dont play if you cant imo

Great 2 posts listen donald

DOHHHHHHH

If you're going in 4/5 handed everytime you open a pot pre flop you arent raising enough.

Make it 22xbb pre flop if you have to. If they're still calling, make it 25xbb.

It's very easy to adapt to these kinda tables.

scotty77

In Response to Re: The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8):

In Response to Re: The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8) : Scotty your talking about chalk and cheese. Those player they were playiong at were not sat a 4nl table were they - they would have had more experience than your average 4nl player and been able to fold etc. Im not saying you dont want these players at your table - I just prefer not to have 5 of them and go into each hand 3 or 4 handed. What everyone else prefers is up to them. Im not saying I am to good to beat poor players either - if it came over that way then that isnt what I intended.
Posted by tapeworm

Durr/Feldman/Townsend all started at 10c/20c IIRC.  Feldman def started at like $5 sNGs.  But back then the average nl1000 player was really no different from the average nl10 player..

Seriously pre 2006 the games were mainly all like nl4 on Sky, no matter what the limit.

AMYBR

Was pretty much expecting to be attacked for that post

I really do think that on the whole, excluding my donut self, there are some pretty good poker minds in this forum.  If your going to be SAP (serious about poker) as you all seem to be, why play 2/4p.  If you can crack it GREAT!  But the real question for me is it WORTH cracking?

If your confident in your game why not chuck down a few hundred quid and at lest play 10/20p.  You'll be getting a more realistic sense of the game and the gains will be more meaningful.  On a risk reward basis you may aswell play two £3 DYM's than 1hr @ 2p/4p, I'd of thought.

On the table selection issue:  online this is something that I've always been dumb with.  Mostly I dont do it, I go to the highest AVG table.  Live I've scouted the softest games/nights around, 50p/£1 + £1/£2 + £2/£4, occassionaly higher.  So in my clinic threads where I'm talking about idiots at the table I really mean it, putting 100's of BB in on a wing and a prayer.  So Table selection is very important. 

But I promise you, there are alot of games out there at 50p/£1 live that your 2p/4p game would crush.

I guess i just conceded the onlinve vs live cash argument again

The_Don90

In Response to Re: The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8):

Sorry if that comes across as a bit harsh but I remember your videos and on the whole they seemed to be very solid and you should def be a nl10/nl20 reg and comfortably rolled for it by now.  You like to overanalyse things/overcomplicate things. You should have all the skills now to seriously grind and build a roll.  SO DO IT.  Don't withdraw.  Don't take shots at MTTs you aren't rolled for.  If you fancy a MTT day then stick to the ones in your roll plus the odd sat or two. If you can put in 100£, multitable and get 6 hours in per day I see no reason at all why you can't have at least a grand in your account by the end of June.  Once you hit that figure you can then start taking out a bit a week to save/enjoy life with. Follows Doh's post to the letter.  And I rarely say that lol.
Posted by scotty77

Just read between dyms.

It doesnt sound harsh at all mate. I know i should be playing higher, and infact i need to stop going off the rails. I think ive played higher and i never felt out of my depth, i just need to get there quit tilting and acting like a baby girl when i take a few bad beats.

Your right i do over complicate and analyse things to much and need more motovation.

I really do need a good hard kick up the rear.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8):

In Response to Re: The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8) : Just read between dyms. It doesnt sound harsh at all mate. I know i should be playing higher, and infact i need to stop going off the rails. I think ive played higher and i never felt out of my depth, i just need to get there quit tilting and acting like a baby girl when i take a few bad beats. Your right i do over complicate and analyse things to much and need more motovation. I really do need a good hard kick up the rear.
Posted by The_Don90

You could have played 20 hands of 4nl whilst writing this post!

Dudeskin8

Just from someone who played 4NL for a bit Scotty is 100% correct. The game down there is all about betting your big hands MASSIVE and I mean MASSIVE, if you do that everytime you flop the nuts, a set, TPGK you'll win a lot, it's as simple as that.

Likewise when you don't hit your hand DO NOT BLOODY BLUFF !! (sensible c-bets are ok but do it sparingly as any pair will ususally call you down)

Big hands = Big bet

Bad hands = Check/Fold or check/call if right price

Only problem I got was the tilt it induces sometimes but found taking a half hour break gets it out your system quite quickly.

TINTIN

In Response to Re: The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8):

Just from someone who played 4NL for a bit Scotty is 100% correct. The game down there is all about betting your big hands MASSIVE and I mean MASSIVE , if you do that everytime you flop the nuts, a set, TPGK you'll win a lot, it's as simple as that. Likewise when you don't hit your hand DO NOT BLOODY BLUFF !! (sensible c-bets are ok but do it sparingly as any pair will ususally call you down) Big hands = Big bet Bad hands = Check/Fold or check/call if right price Only problem I got was the tilt it induces sometimes but found taking a half hour break gets it out your system quite quickly.
Posted by Dudeskin8

this is spot on, couldnt say it better myself,

just had another good hour, double my balance and then some in 1 hour, £17 to £37, some examples to follow

TINTIN

im having trouble posting hands, never done it so i need help

TINTIN

COCKNHEN	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£0.84
hill04	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£2.96
x	Big blind		£0.04	£0.10	£1.56
	Your hole cards	K K
Bullet	Fold
MRENT121	Fold
x	Raise		£0.20	£0.30	£1.36
TINTIN	Raise		£0.96	£1.26	£3.56
COCKNHEN	Fold
hill04	Fold
x	All-in		£1.36	£2.62	£0.00
TINTIN	Call		£0.64	£3.26	£2.92
x	Show	J A
TINTIN	Show	K K
Flop
		9 Q J
Turn
		Q
River
		Q
TINTIN	Win	Full House, Queens and Kings	£3.01

TINTIN

rastafary10	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.47
chris1963	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.70
	Your hole cards	A K
x	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£2.19
TINTIN	Raise		£0.24	£0.34	£3.60
BUTCHER529	Fold
rastafary10	Fold
chris1963	Fold
x	Call		£0.20	£0.54	£1.99
Flop
		K 4 4
x	Bet		£0.16	£0.70	£1.83
TINTIN	Raise		£0.81	£1.51	£2.79
x	All-in		£1.83	£3.34	£0.00
TINTIN	Call		£1.18	£4.52	£1.61
x	Show	Q 10
TINTIN	Show	A K
Turn
		9
River
		2
TINTIN	Win	Two Pairs, Kings and 4s	£4.18

The_Don90

Liking the way you played both hands there Tintin cant really say much more than that.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
The_Don90	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.82
brian1945	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£1.40
	Your hole cards	8 J
acesfull83	Fold
Camboo	Fold
frankie700	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£5.88
lfcmikey05	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£1.26
The_Don90	Call		£0.02	£0.16	£3.80
brian1945	Check
Flop
		J 10 8
The_Don90	Bet		£0.12	£0.28	£3.68
brian1945	Fold
frankie700	Call		£0.12	£0.40	£5.76
lfcmikey05	Call		£0.12	£0.52	£1.14
Turn
		3
The_Don90	Bet		£0.39	£0.91	£3.29
frankie700	Call		£0.39	£1.30	£5.37
lfcmikey05	Call		£0.39	£1.69	£0.75
River
		K
The_Don90	Check
frankie700	Bet		£1.04	£2.73	£4.33
lfcmikey05	All-in		£0.75	£3.48	£0.00
The_Don90	Call		£1.04	£4.52	£2.25
frankie700	Show	Q Q
lfcmikey05	Muck	10 9
The_Don90	Show	8 J
The_Don90	Win	Two Pairs, Jacks and 8s	£4.18		£6.43

Basically would like to discuss the river here, feel i missed value. Should i fire a third bullet into the pot. Or is the check call the best option on this board. The other option looking back is possibly the Check Shove. Which do you guys think is best?

grantorino

Have no idea how 4NL plays so may be wrong but anyway

Don
1Fine
2Fine, prob just stick it in on river
3. I fold pre. b/f river to a big bet, as played I prefer a call to a raise
Nick
1 raise bigger pre, shove river
2 I prob call
3. Depends a bit what happened in 2 but prob call.
 I can see reasons to limp 99 pre from sb (I might still raise though) but I think raising is definitely better with AJ 

Tintin
Superstandard brag hands

N1CK

In Response to Re: The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8):

Have no idea how 4NL plays so may be wrong but anyway Don 1Fine 2Fine, prob just stick it in on river 3. I fold pre. b/f river to a big bet, as played I prefer a call to a raise Nick 1 raise bigger pre, shove river 2 I prob call 3. Depends a bit what happened in 2 but prob call.  I can see reasons to limp 99 pre from sb (I might still raise though) but I think raising is definitely better with AJ  Tintin Superstandard brag hands
Posted by grantorino

hand 3 was my read/info from hand 2

TINTIN

In Response to Re: The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8):

Have no idea how 4NL plays so may be wrong but anyway Don 1Fine 2Fine, prob just stick it in on river 3. I fold pre. b/f river to a big bet, as played I prefer a call to a raise Nick 1 raise bigger pre, shove river 2 I prob call 3. Depends a bit what happened in 2 but prob call.  I can see reasons to limp 99 pre from sb (I might still raise though) but I think raising is definitely better with AJ  Tintin Superstandard brag hands
Posted by grantorino

i posted them to highlight the point raised about betting big hands massively

The_Don90

REASON A to why i cant beat NL4

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
EMOSUMO	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£6.67
tosca21	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£1.91
hawkrider	Big blind		£0.04	£0.10	£1.56
	Your hole cards	2 2
hawkrider	Check
b1tch23	Fold
The_Don90	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£3.90
pwazza	Raise		£0.08	£0.22	£2.04
EMOSUMO	Raise		£0.10	£0.32	£6.57
tosca21	Call		£0.08	£0.40	£1.83
hawkrider	Fold
The_Don90	Call		£0.08	£0.48	£3.82
pwazza	Call		£0.04	£0.52	£2.00
Flop
		J J 2
EMOSUMO	Bet		£0.08	£0.60	£6.49
tosca21	Fold
The_Don90	Raise		£0.59	£1.19	£3.23
pwazza	Fold
EMOSUMO	Call		£0.51	£1.70	£5.98
Turn
		K
EMOSUMO	Check
The_Don90	Bet		£1.28	£2.98	£1.95
EMOSUMO	Call		£1.28	£4.26	£4.70
River
		A
EMOSUMO	All-in		£4.70	£8.96	£0.00
The_Don90	All-in		£1.95	£10.91	£0.00
EMOSUMO	Unmatched bet		£2.75	£8.16	£2.75
EMOSUMO	Show	A A
The_Don90	Show	2 2
EMOSUMO	Win	Full House, Aces and Jacks	£7.54		£10.29

grantorino

nh. lol

Prop60

In Response to Re: The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8):

they all seem pretty bad, pre flop pretty standard could of opened more? cbet seems ok? should i v-bet river or slow down coz flush scares me? i had been getting good cards in early pos and was opening a fair bit in late pos, i started off iso raising to 20p but everyone folds so reduced it to 16 but still folding, was nice to get free money pre but i wanted action and to play streets so opened smaller
Posted by N1CK

Find this a lot (problems sizing the pre-flop bet). It seems to vary table to table but there's not much joy in taking down a succession of 6p pots with decent cards. The other problem I have is, when multi-tabling, I lose track of who's there and miss a nit leaving and a calling station taking his place and scaring the bejasus out of me by calling my c bet. But I supopose that's micro-cash.

Does anyone have any opinion as to what cash level the play starts to become more standard at??

Prop60

In Response to Re: The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8):

REASON A to why i cant beat NL4
Posted by The_Don90

Can't see how you could have got away from that one Don. he must reckon he's good with top pair with pocket bullets so even if you jammed the flop he'd have probably called you.  At the end of the day, the stacks are so small in absolute cash terms that anyone pulling up for a bit of fun will reckon "it's only a few quid".I think you'd have scared off a better player though.

Don't beat yourself up.

The_Don90

i just run bad

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
smee10	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.98
jo_buttons	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£2.56
	Your hole cards	K J
tracey374	Fold
The_Don90	Raise		£0.20	£0.26	£3.80
ken62	Call		£0.20	£0.46	£11.61
BUDDY345	Call		£0.20	£0.66	£0.74
smee10	Fold
jo_buttons	Call		£0.16	£0.82	£2.40
Flop
		5 J J
jo_buttons	Check
The_Don90	Bet		£0.62	£1.44	£3.18
ken62	Fold
BUDDY345	All-in		£0.74	£2.18	£0.00
jo_buttons	Fold
The_Don90	Call		£0.12	£2.30	£3.06
The_Don90	Show	K J
BUDDY345	Show	5 5
Turn
		A
River
		8
BUDDY345	Win	Full House, 5s and Jacks	£2.12		£2.12

Dont think i can get away from the above in any circumstances.



This one should i bet turn diff?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
FLEXYMAN	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.82
tracey374	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£7.28
	Your hole cards	K A
The_Don90	Raise		£0.32	£0.38	£3.58
BUDDY345	Fold
smee10	Call		£0.32	£0.70	£4.07
FLEXYMAN	Fold
tracey374	Call		£0.28	£0.98	£7.00
Flop
		A 9 10
tracey374	Check
The_Don90	Bet		£0.98	£1.96	£2.60
smee10	Call		£0.98	£2.94	£3.09
tracey374	Call		£0.98	£3.92	£6.02
Turn
		Q
tracey374	Check
The_Don90	All-in		£2.60	£6.52	£0.00
smee10	Fold
tracey374	Fold
The_Don90	Muck
The_Don90	Win		£3.62		£3.62
The_Don90	Return		£2.60	£0.30	£6.22

grantorino

both good, wp

YOUNG_GUN

Both fine, first one cooler but lucky they only had like 94p

2nd one is fine only bet you can do on turn is all in

on first hand i dont think its standard to playing KJ UTG +1 and would be interested in others views i dont think foldings bad here but at least you raised it well

AMYBR

KJ @ 6 max UTG+1 seems fine, with a view to caution.

TINTIN

kj utg+1 is marginal especially with stations behind you, after the flop there is nothing you can do but lose

ak i would play much the same

The_Don90

can i just state the raise pre with the KJ was on the basis of i thought i had KQ. I had the seat in the top right and was jotting a note up at the start of the hand. Seen the King with a face card through that yellow not pad thing and though, i has KQ. Im raising. I riased save the note seen KJ and thought nooooooooooo. By then i had 2 callers with the BB about to.

Flop comes down and wiiiiiiiiiii, oops. lol.

YOUNG_GUN

lol don your my hero please write another blog :P

The_Don90

In Response to Re: The low stake cash clinic thread. (NL4/NL8):

lol don your my hero please write another blog :P
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

well i could write a blog about how im using my spare slow bulky mouse because the one i was using somehow ended up in 5 peices last night and i cant remember how.

YOUNG_GUN

lol or how you continue to post so you dont have to play poker and tilt

i prefer your account of the SPT would be good

DOHHHHHHH

As long as he doesn't make any more fatal mistakes with his life!!!!

LOL_RAISE

i think you should check flop with KJ.

fold J8o preflop even with limpers ur oop with bad hand