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NL4 strategy from DOHHHHHH (v long)
a good read, hope you havent just made the games harder
Comments
Speaking to a few people about it, so thought I'd have another crack at it and bang some hands up.
Played about an hour on 10 tables, and just played abc, then dropped down to 4 for a while to try and get some reads/notes and use them to make decisions.
Gonna go through some hands and basic strategy, before ending with a general summary!
-----------------------------------
Start from the start!
Pre flop.
Our whole strategy at this level is going to be about value. We're not going to mix it up with players, readless, we're gnonna play solid poker, and exploit the mistakes our opponents make.
Without any sort of reads or anything, say you're sat with 5 unknowns, hand selection is key!
I reckon a standard open raise size of 5xbb is about right. 20p from all positions with value hands assuming you're the first into the pot.
This figure shouldn't be set in stone though. Some hands are easier to play post flop than others.
For example, If I have AA utg, I want to play it, it's a clear open to 20p. I could have pocket 2s. Again, I want to play it because if I hit a set, I get paid well and win a big pot.
However I'd rather not commit 5xbb utg w/22 because most flops I'm just going to have to check or fold.
I can adapt my raise size, and open to 3xbb. THEY DON'T NOTICE!!! Without reads, this is fine, but if someone behind is aggressive and raising alot, it's fine to limp in and call a raise, rather than raise and be re-raised off the pot without seeing a flop.
Seriously, mixing your raise sizes up according to the strength of your hand is fine.
Another scenario, I have AA on the button and theres a limp UTG. I'm making it 7xbb (28p). 2 limpers, it's going up to 38p. etc. We're looking to pot build with value hands from start to finish.
Pairs in limped pots?
I really don't think there's any value in raising limpers with hands that aren't going to hit many flops. The pots build fast at nl4. Limping with pairs, even as strong as 9s or maybe 10s is fine in limped pots.
It's important to look at stack sizes of opponents. If theres a raise and a call in front, it looks like a great spot to see a flop with 22/33/44/55/66/77. You really need the players to be at least 50xbb deep to call here. We are never gonna win the pot unless we hit a set, because our strategy post flop is all about value town, rather than bluffing and taking pots down uncontested.
3 bet sizing.
Pre flop 3 bet sizing is really important at nl4.
Our 3 bet value range readless is going to be fairly tight. JJ/QQ/KK/AA/AK.
Similar to unraised pots, bigger is better. You can't worry about 3 betting AA big, and making everyone fold. As that is going to happen. It happens at every level, nl4 to nl1k. You just have to get used to it.
Never worry about "scaring people off". We're betting for value constantly. Bigger bets = more value.
The tendancies of nl4 players are to see flops, they hate to fold. So we can use this in our favour by charging them more, hence winning more money when we have the best hand. Our hand selection is solid, so we will have the best hand most times!!
It's also important to look at stack sizes when 3 betting.
If your opponent has a £1.50 stack, and you have aces facing his raise, you can 3 bet smaller, as here we really do not want to scare him off, and we don't need to raise so big to get all his money in by the end of the hand. A normal 3 bet size from maybe 12p to 32p is fine against short stacks with value hands. Again, they will not notice.
Post flop
Like pre flop, our post flop strategy is gonna be all about value.
The general rule readless is to very rarely c bet without a good hand.
Never c bet as a total bluff. It's important to identify good flops to c bet, by considering our pot equity and our fold equity.
Scary words, which I probably shouldn't even be using myself at the mo. lol. But I'll try and explain in words that I will understand.
If we're c betting we need to be pretty confident that there are turn cards that will make us the best hand. The turn cards that we could potentially hit, will then turn our hand into a value hand, rather than a semi bluff.
To work out if our hand has good equity (or a good chance of going ahead of our opponents range) on the turn, we need to look at flop texture.
For example if we have pocket 3's on a T Q A flop with 2 hearts. This is a horrible board for our hand. Our opponent is likely to have high cards, so we have little fold equity against his range, as people don't fold pairs.
We also only have 2 good turn cards that will potentially turn our hand into a value hand. So our equity in the hand is also terrible.
Therefore it' not a good board to c bet.
An alternative situation is a board of 2 5 9 rainbow.
We hold ace king, and it's checked to us in position.
This is 1 of the rare occasions we can cbet. The board is really dry, and it is likely that our opponent will miss this flop quite alot. Our cbet will make him fold most of the time.
If he calls, we have 6 cards to hit on the turn and river to improve our hand, and turn it into a value situation.
Combine the fold equity we have in the hand, with the likelihood of our hand improving on turn or river, and this makes it a great spot to make a continuation bet.
We're out of position, so we should be extra careful when c-betting, but as this is a 3bet pot against another big stack, it's not a bad time to c bet.
The board is Jack high, with 2 low cards and no flush draw. It's very unlikely that my opponent has hit this flop.
I have 2 overcards to the board, which can convert my hand into a value hand on the turn or river.
He makes the call, and I hit one of the cards to turn my hand into a value hand.
As we're so deep, I decide to take the pot control line which is very important at nl4 (see later). I check because we're deepstacked, I don't really want to get stacks in here.
His turn check behind gives me the green light to go ahead and value bet the river.
The point about the hand is I wasn't "c-betting dead". He's going to fold the flop alot of the time, and some of the times that he calls, I will go ahead of his hand range and be able to bet for value.
Betting for value.
This really is the bread and butter of nl4. Our value range post flop.
Because of our solid hand selection pre flop, we're not going to get into many spots where we are unsure of what to do.
Bet sizing readless should always at least be 3/4 of the pot. Again, we're never worried about "scaring people off". That will inevitably happen, people will fold when we flop the nuts, but we need to maximise value the times that they have hands to continue.
I don't want to go too much into hand reading, but the fact he limped in pre flop and called a raise, before leading into me on the flop, tells me he has something.
If he has something, he doesn't fold, right?
So we want to get his money in the middle as soon as possible.
A big raise is the way to do that, lets get it in and get value from his aces, his flush draws, his pocket pairs, anything that he's stupid enough to call with really.
The end of the hand is below, as you can see he put most of his money in miles behind, and got there on the river this time, but we played the hand well. So what, he's just keeping it warm.
Pot control
Even when we are playing solid hands pre flop, we're still going to get ourselves into some marginal spots post flop. It's poker, it's never gonna be THAT simple.
It's important not to get attatched to marginal hands. We need to recognise times that we have a strong value hand, in which case we're happy to get all the money in. We need also to recognise times when we have a good hand, which will be good alot of the time, but will also be behind sometimes.
It's an overpair to the board, "it's the nuts at nl4" - Not neccesserily. It's a pot where someone else has raised pre flop. We've called to set mine as our opponent is deep stacked enough to offer us good implied odds (see pre flop strategy).
I donk lead out for value, as I have a strong hand. I want information about the intiial raisers hand, does he have an overpair? (I fold here if I am raised).
The initial raiser folds, and I get a call from the other guy.
I have no real idea what his range is readless. He could have literally anything right? You know the drill @ nl4!!
So alarm bells are going off, and the turn brings an over-card.
My hand is now definitely a marginal hand, and I want to get to showdown. Checking to him allows him to bluff, and stops us inflating the pot, we don't want to bet and get raised, because we have to fold.
We can get ourselves in a mess in situations like this by betting out of position.
The end of the hand is posted below (brag) but that's just for fun, It's a hand from later on in my session, and I had notes/reads on the oppo, that I will come to later in the thread.
If we are out of position, or our opponent has the betting lead pre flop, it's best to check and call bets until we hit. Or fold if we aren't getting the right price.
Use the notes on "c betting" to identify good and bad flops to c bet our draws on.
Playing the river/overbetting.
I thought it would be good to introduce the over-bet. I think this is one of our best weapons at micro stakes.
It's different to making pre flop and flop bet sizes "big", in that we normally only over-bet on the river.
Overbet also means betting "more than the pot"
We're always looking for ways to maximise value. Our whole strategy from pre flop to now, on the river, has been about extracting as much money from our opponents as we can.
Betting/raising strong is fine, but using the over-bet effectively can boost your win-rate big-time!
It normally works best when the pot is small. If the pot is still small on the river, it means our hand has likely improved alot on the turn or river, because if we were strong pre flop and on the flop, our strategy dictates that the pot would be big by now, not small.
So we've got there on the river by taking the pot control line then improving. We need to somehow get value, but the pot is tiny, how can we maximise this opportunity?
OVERBET!
The pot is only 50p though. Sure we could bet 35p and hope he has something, or we can go for max value and overbet the pot.
We know people don't like to fold, so they will call us much wider than they should.
Bang in a 2x the pot sized bet, and let him station off his money to us, happy days! If he folds? meh, we might have lost 30p of value, but the times we get paid £1.20 more than makes up for it.
Another example below.
I raise the turn here, as my draw is MASSIVE, and the pot is so small. My opponents are both quite deep stacked, so I want to build the pot slightly, to maximise my potential winnings should I hit my draw on the river.
I appreciate that many find this level frustrating, and are keen to get up the levels and play some "proper poker" But the fact is you have to do the donkey work and build up the discipline, bankroll and basic understanding that will stand you in good stead when you get there.
Not many jump straight into the deep end and survive.
It's a grind, but it's essential that you do it, and that you beat it. For your confidence as well as your bankroll.
It feels good stacking people and being the best player at the table. And we can win lots of money here, which is great right.
So stop moaning about it, get on with it, put the hours in, and the sooner you beat it the sooner you can get outta there!!!
Summary
Always remember that the key to beating this level is to get value!
- Solid hand selection.
- Look at stack sizes before entering a pot.
- Always bet and raise big for value.
- Identify when your value hand turns into a marginal hand, and pot control accordingly.
- Look at board texture and opponent stack sizes throughout the hand
- Don't be afraid of losing your customer.
- Don't be a hero !!!!
- Solid play wins the money, you can get fancy and outplay donkeys like me, when you get up to the higher micro stakes.
Hope this has helped some of you out, I enjoyed doing it. Will do something similar about using notes and reads at nl4, and how they can help with decision making in the marginal spots we sometimes get into.
But until then if you stick to the above, you wont go far wrong.
Run good.
(as always, all this is just my opinion, some people may disagree)
Great post, now for nl30
Only joking, this is all excellent advice for NL4.
"None of this 3x + 1 per limper, just bash the raise button till you get a big number"
HAHA
Although alot of what JJ says here is right.
One of the two best posts I've read in ANY poker forum.
Just wish I had the brain power to soak it all up in one go, I can see myself coming back to, and re-reading this post a thousand times over the coming months!!!
You're a proper person DOHHHHHH, thanks for the time and effort you've put in.
Cheers,
Z.
Nice post, well done
great post.
Super post well done!
Reminds me... gotta order a pizza and put on The Office S2 to watch during the scoff-fest ;-)
I regret posting that I disagree with some of it (as it sounds like Im trying to take away from it, which was not my intention), and Im not posting what I disagree with because overall its an excellent post and a great resource for anyone trying to get their game together at microstakes. A long discussion about a few points that are prob very minor compared to the overall argument put forward by doh will not really help players who will gain the most from reading the strategy
I will add that if I posted something similar I would be shocked if anyone agreed with all of it
Apologies for my nitpicking though, I shouldnt have made my original post. I would appreciate if others dont comment on my posts and derail this thread.
This deserves entry to Primo for a whole month IMO.
You should seriously consider boxing this and selling it!
EDIT : 2nd bit irrelevent.
Most altruistic of you to share it.
Question (for anyone) : At what level do you think it, in general, starts to become more like "proper poker"? Is it mostly a gradual process through the levels?
Other question (for anyone): Do you think it's better starting at NL4 regardless of BR? My latest drunken adventure took my BR up to £260 and I'm going to start taking cash seriously next week when my OU thing's done. I was thinking NL10 would be comfortable enough? Is there big differences between NL4 and NL10?
Most of it is spot on
Essentailly raise big with good hands - ABC poker
Don't bluff because they call -
Always play for value and /or expected/implied value
Also even at this level try not to play marginal hands OOP aggro, it's a headache
Top Tip: when you raise x5 BB with AA and get called in 3 spots - don't worry the guy with
84o will outdraw you and he will stack you - remember in the long run you will win that money back and a lot more if you keep playing correctly
One thing dohhh is somesone said youve called a raise with QT or QJ, ive not read properly, but unless im opening the pot on one of the tighter NL4 tables then QT and QJ is now out of my range. call me nit picking if you will.
Now to get dohhhh that trophy.
Edit: never takes long. http://twitpic.com/4z2cra