DYM decision on the bubble???

MP33

not sure why all the options, surely u can only call of fold?

cnt see the other stacks but this looks like a fold

EDIT - just seen other stacks, this is a fold

MP33

£5 DYM - down to 4 with an aggro player behind I felt confident he was gonna clash with one of the others pretty soon although he had never gone all in but he could have done it with worst ace :

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
52THEFLUSH	Small blind		150.00	150.00	4402.50
MP33	Big blind		300.00	450.00	2970.00
	Your hole cards	K A
domdotcom	Fold				1.8k
pokermask	Fold				1.6k
52THEFLUSH	All-in		4252.00
MP33	?????

Hand History #374909550

YOUNG_GUN

I fold, seems nitty but your 2nd so no need to get involved with the chip leader

AMYBR

I hear shanxta is the DYM master, but I'm going to find it hard to fold here.  If the table is slightly aggro (in that they are happily getting it in with their 5/6 Bigs relatively frequently) I fold, but otherwise I'm likely in.

Mainly because if the 1.8 or 1.6k double through on the orbit your only treading water yourself

goodylad21

I fold this without even thinking !!

Crunchybob

personally id call...easy..if he has a awesome hand(aces or kings) he surely wud raise to either get a call or induce someone to go all in therefore i believe he is holding a decent hand but not as good as yours and is just trying to bully ppl around to take the blinds...i agree with amy, it only takes the other 2 to double up and ur in trouble...then ud be wishing u had called

AMYBR

ALWAYS MANAGE YOUR BANK ROLL!!!!!!!   Not AMY!

I understand why foldings an option, a strong option, but If I put him on an inferior A, which i likely do.  I'm in.

But as I say, I hear Shan is the dym master, his advice is probably the premium

Glenelg

In Response to Re: DYM decision on the bubble???:

personally id call...easy..if he has a awesome hand(aces or kings) he surely wud raise to either get a call or induce someone to go all in therefore i believe he is holding a decent hand but not as good as yours and is just trying to bully ppl around to take the blinds...i agree with amy, it only takes the other 2 to double up and ur in trouble...then ud be wishing u had called
Posted by Crunchybob

I'd reckon I'd call.

Crunchybob

sorry, thought it was amy, bet u get it all the time lol.
i've heard shans the dym master too, i played him once before and saw nothing yoda-esque about his play

grantorino

I havent studied dym strat but I reckon its a pretty clear fold. You are never a huge favourite against any range you give him.

Anyone able to do an ICM calc for this

SHANXTA

In Response to Re: DYM decision on the bubble???:

I hear shanxta is the DYM master, but I'm going to find it hard to fold here.  If the table is slightly aggro (in that they are happily getting it in with their 5/6 Bigs relatively frequently) I fold, but otherwise I'm likely in. Mainly because if the 1.8 or 1.6k double through on the orbit your only treading water yourself
Posted by AMYBR

lol, plenty of players better than me, just none of them bother to post! JohnConnor used 2, not sure what happened 2 him. but there r plenty out there, inc TommyD

for me its a fold coz my % equity in cashing is higher if i fold, than it is wiv callin all in with AK vs his range

percival09

It's a no brainer, easy fold! It's not even an opinion, it's a fact! lol Even if he has 29 off suit he's 40%, why risk not cashing when there are 2 v.low stacks??

AMYBR

Agree mostly.  I think it would be very dependant upon the action thusfar.  Jamming there just whifs of a A9 type hand. 

So often in those DYMS the action begins at 150/300, so the jam fest commences.  Come down on the wrong side of one in a flip with a weaker hand than the AK & the 1.6 or 1.8 doubles through you, its going to be abit..iffy

Depends how much the £10 meant to my role + opponents perceived range there.

Glenelg

In Response to Re: DYM decision on the bubble???:

Agree mostly.  I think it would be very dependant upon the action thusfar.  Jamming there just whifs of a A9 type hand.  So often in those DYMS the action begins at 150/300, so the jam fest commences.  Come down on the wrong side of one in a flip with a weaker hand than the AK & the 1.6 or 1.8 doubles through you, its going to be abit..iffy Depends how much the £10 meant to my role + opponents perceived range there.
Posted by AMYBR

If you could afford it, it's worth the call alone to see the hand to get a better handle on villain for future. I'd then seek him/her out!

SHANXTA

In Response to Re: DYM decision on the bubble???:

personally id call...easy..if he has a awesome hand(aces or kings) he surely wud raise to either get a call or induce someone to go all in therefore i believe he is holding a decent hand but not as good as yours and is just trying to bully ppl around to take the blinds...i agree with amy, it only takes the other 2 to double up and ur in trouble...then ud be wishing u had called
Posted by Crunchybob

i dnt doubt this, and persoanlly, in ur case i think it may b d right call

however in MP33's case he has a big enuf skill advantage over a £5 dym 2 make foldin here a very valid option

grantorino

I think it would be pretty hard, probably impossible, to give him a range that would make this a call. We are well ahead of his likely range, but still have to fold, which is why I expect him to shove pretty wide if he has a clue what he is doing

SHANXTA

In Response to Re: DYM decision on the bubble???:

Agree mostly.  I think it would be very dependant upon the action thusfar.  Jamming there just whifs of a A9 type hand.  So often in those DYMS the action begins at 150/300, so the jam fest commences.  Come down on the wrong side of one in a flip with a weaker hand than the AK & the 1.6 or 1.8 doubles through you, its going to be abit..iffy Depends how much the £10 meant to my role + opponents perceived range there.
Posted by AMYBR

the money shudnt affect ur decision

we av ~65% equity vs ATC, our equity to cash shud b higher than this if we fold 

AMYBR

Again I agree  

But this approach is based upon one of the shorties bubbling rather than doubling up.  Totally opens up the game again if that happens. 

TBH I thought POSTER had 2200 behind rather than 3000< vs 1.8 & 1.6.  This in likelyhood would change my desicion

YOUNG_GUN

How is this even a discussion again, the above hand it would not suprise me if we are good but as shanxta said its not worth it. leave it to the others to get involved here and fold away unless you get Aces/ Kings

Shanx would you call here with KK? on that note what is the lowest you would call here in the above scenario

I think Queens are probably marginal incase the shover has AK, i would assume Kings is correct?

Crunchybob

ok..imagine this(cos this is what happens). a short jams, takes the blinds(which will increase ofc) cos u have air and cant call. all of sudden this pattern happens over and over again, u find urself short looking for a spot to shove. i just think his trying to bully ppl off the blinds, surely if he has a hand he raises to try and get a short to call and lower their chips..its a no brainer here. if ur nt gna call with ace king wtf u waiting for...take the opportunity to go chip leader and breeze the rest of the way letting them 3 battle it out.

YOUNG_GUN

You miss the point, DYM's its better if we're the one putting the chips in first

Also there is only 1 person who has us covered and can stop us from cashing is the one putting it in the middle, although we have a good hand it is only A high, we are still losing vs any pairs

I think your playing the wrong game crunch seriously, in a normal sit n go this is insta call, same with MTT. but in a DYM it makes it a marginal decision, not bad but its more profitable to fold in the long run. You seem to me that all your actions are card dependent and results orientated which its not its all about making +EV decisions

Wheres JohnConnor when we need him :P

AMYBR

Pretty sure they know the formulae Crunchy

The real issue is big stack can be opening a really wide range there, some your dominating most your not.  The real Question becomes - in a dym, on the bubble - is it worth calling there?  Particularly when there's going to be a clash soon based on shorties stacks.  So they are right really.  This spot played a 1000 (000000000) times, your best play is the fold.

It just comes down to how you want the rest of the dym to play out.

TommyD

Fold 'em.

Stack size decision.

Crunchybob

ok no point argueing with the 'experts'. if its such a fold why the post?. both players already folded. clearly trying to steal the blinds...if ur a gambler(like me) then call.
if u like to fold ur way round hoping to cash then fold. nuff said. i suspect he has a ace with lower kicker so his dominated. and made a stupid move and ur a monster chip lead.

SHANXTA

In Response to Re: DYM decision on the bubble???:

ok no point argueing with the 'experts'. if its such a fold why the post?. both players already folded. clearly trying to steal the blinds...if ur a gambler(like me) then call. if u like to fold ur way round hoping to cash then fold. nuff said. i suspect he has a ace with lower kicker so his dominated. and made a stupid move and ur a monster chip lead.
Posted by Crunchybob

OMG

even if he has a weaker ace, ur still only 70%, not gd enuf 2 call it off there

i dnt think u understand the diff bewteen gettin ur money in 1st and callin it off

again i think ur failin 2 understand the concept of dyms, u dnt nd all d chips, u jus nd 2 survive

if ur a 'gambler' dnt play dyms!

SHANXTA

In Response to Re: DYM decision on the bubble???:

How is this even a discussion again, the above hand it would not suprise me if we are good but as shanxta said its not worth it. leave it to the others to get involved here and fold away unless you get Aces/ Kings Shanx would you call here with KK? on that note what is the lowest you would call here in the above scenario I think Queens are probably marginal incase the shover has AK, i would assume Kings is correct?
Posted by YOUNG_GUN

this is affected by the other 2 players left in

GREGHOGG

only just seen this and only read the OP, skimmed through the rest.

easy snap fold. due to the others being so short.

Crunchybob

i completely understand dyms...i play them all the time and cash all the time. how do i do this...by not folding premium hands and by not getting bullied by a larger stacks..with blinds increasing the 2 short stacks are going to shove, therefore winning the blinds as ppl bottle it and dont call. im not saying this will happen for certain, but in my experience this is the case.

AMYBR

Maybe re read this thread and try and see some of the finer points bud.  Its not really about bottling it or stones.  DYN's should be your least gamble game, as there is no reward for gamble.

The written word is easy to minsinterpret bud.  There is some really good advice here that I guarentee would make you more rounded and successful.  GL

grantorino

AK is 65% against a random hand, very hard to give him a range we are better than 70% against.

We are surely />75% to cash 2nd in chips when 3/4 cash

This is why calling is bad

waller02

In Response to Re: DYM decision on the bubble???:

i completely understand dyms...i play them all the time and cash all the time. how do i do this...by not folding premium hands and by not getting bullied by a larger stacks..with blinds increasing the 2 short stacks are going to shove, therefore winning the blinds as ppl bottle it and dont call. im not saying this will happen for certain, but in my experience this is the case.
Posted by Crunchybob

just a quick one, if you cash in them all the time why aren't you in profit?

even i fold this and i'm the master of making bad calls!