Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :p

AMYBR

Just been watching this am's FT episode.  This guy has annoyed me no end throughout, today especially.  Pretty much everything thats wrong with poker.

My favourite quotes by him:

"Yeah they say the monkeys playing every hand again, but its ok as I'm winning every hand".

Three betting as standard with less than rags, but running so hot it doesnt matter.  This guy will likely win this tournament but be bankrupt for rest of his life wondering why he cant catch 2 outers every hand.

Favourite quotes from others:

"This hand is a clown short of a circus" and "Chris Oliver has been sleeping with a simple minded leprechaun and the dumb luck has rubbed all over him".  Very well said.

Only got up to the point where he 3 bes Sowers with 82 on the button, flopping 2pr (awful flat pre by Sowers though).

Lets see what else happens.....

bandini

In Response to Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

Just been watching this am's FT episode.  This guy has annoyed me no end throughout, today especially.  Pretty much everything thats wrong with poker. My favourite quotes by him: "Yeah they say the monkeys playing every hand again, but its ok as I'm winning every hand". Three betting as standard with less than rags, but running so hot it doesnt matter.  This guy will likely win this tournament but be bankrupt for rest of his life wondering why he cant catch 2 outers every hand. Favourite quotes from others: "This hand is a clown short of a circus" and "Chris Oliver has been sleeping with a simple minded leprechaun and the dumb luck has rubbed all over him".  Very well said. Only got up to the point where he 3 bes Sowers with 82 on the button, flopping 2pr (awful flat pre by Sowers though). Lets see what else happens.....
Posted by AMYBR

Haven't watched it yet but last weeks one where the guy took half of Moneymaker's stack was one of the best reverse tells I've ever seen. Moneymaker fell for it hook, line and sinker and I'm pretty sure I would have too.

AMYBR

Moneymaker had been playing from his much diminished gut, to his credit.  But he was making some very ambitious hero calls.  Thing is when your playing from the gut and your right, it can run abit of interference later on vs other opponents, which is what I think happened to moneymaker.

Just watched end of PCA, very very exciting HU battle and thoroughly enjoyed it, wont say anything else if others havent seen it.

Truly great commentary by Mr Hartigan.  I know they edit it in afterwards but its always quality hearing the contempt in a commentators voice towards the idiot spewy players   Oliver 86 vs Hall QQ board 910J69, river call allin.  Hartigan priceless here

68Trebor

 To be fair to Mr Oliver he seems to do ok at this poker malarky, and to his credit he was probably the most entertaining player to watch, although I have to say Mr Moneymaker came across as a very nice bloke, who probably deserves a bit more credit than he tends to get.

AMYBR

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

 To be fair to Mr Oliver he seems to do ok at this poker malarky, and to his credit he was probably the most entertaining player to watch, although I have to say Mr Moneymaker came across as a very nice bloke, who probably deserves a bit more credit than he tends to get.
Posted by 68Trebor

Really lol?  Dont quite know what to say to that

stien

In Response to Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

Just been watching this am's FT episode.  This guy has annoyed me no end throughout, today especially.  Pretty much everything thats wrong with poker. My favourite quotes by him: "Yeah they say the monkeys playing every hand again, but its ok as I'm winning every hand". Three betting as standard with less than rags, but running so hot it doesnt matter.  This guy will likely win this tournament but be bankrupt for rest of his life wondering why he cant catch 2 outers every hand. Favourite quotes from others: "This hand is a clown short of a circus" and "Chris Oliver has been sleeping with a simple minded leprechaun and the dumb luck has rubbed all over him".  Very well said. Only got up to the point where he 3 bes Sowers with 82 on the button, flopping 2pr (awful flat pre by Sowers though). Lets see what else happens.....
Posted by AMYBR

Got to say I was not impressed, its the same so often at my local club, clown can't miss no matter what he's up against, once they start hitting it usually ends in a win for them, last week a guy knocks very player out on the ten handed final table calling pre flop all ins and raises with any two, in my case he had K7, he calls my utg raise and short stack shove, and then my all in on the flop I have AA, he hits 7 on the flop K on the river. Thats why they are called donkuments i guess. 

82 hand was shocking but you have to question the other guys pre flop play, Oliver was raising so wide where were the 4 bet jams? 

Won't ruin the show for any that have yet to see it but this guy looked like a fish on a super heater.  "Yeah they say the monkeys playing every hand again, but its ok as I'm winning every hand" Says it all really.

spornybol

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

In Response to Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) : Haven't watched it yet but last weeks one where the guy took half of Moneymaker's stack was one of the best reverse tells I've ever seen. Moneymaker fell for it hook, line and sinker and I'm pretty sure I would have too.
Posted by bandini

YOU`D FALL FOR ANYTHING OR IS THAT FOOL ? MY SPELLING AIN`T GOOD

beaneh

he 3bets more 9 handed than most players open 6 handed on sky.

he's awesome.

LOL_RAISE

i just wanted to stab him for wearing that cap at 90degree angle to his forehead

AMYBR

But its "hip". 

Really was on edge of my seat waiting for the car crash.  Hall played amazing well throughout.

Knew Oliver was going to fillup on river in that crucial hand.  Against Oliver thats an amazing fold.  I think most people would realise Oliver wasnt bluffing there but its a really hard fold regardless.

If bets bets half pot at turn tournements over on river.

RAB642

  Moneymaker had Oliver in his pocket till they switched tables last week, then it was down and out for moneymaker as he thought everyone was at it ( as oliver was ) and Oliver just kept hitting and knocking out everyone. 

   p.s when oliver moved tables he was short stacked

J-Hartigan

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

Moneymaker had been playing from his much diminished gut, to his credit.  But he was making some very ambitious hero calls.  Thing is when your playing from the gut and your right, it can run abit of interference later on vs other opponents, which is what I think happened to moneymaker. Just watched end of PCA, very very exciting HU battle and thoroughly enjoyed it, wont say anything else if others havent seen it. Truly great commentary by Mr Hartigan.  I know they edit it in afterwards but its always quality hearing the contempt in a commentators voice towards the idiot spewy players   Oliver 86 vs Hall QQ board 910J69, river call allin.  Hartigan priceless here
Posted by AMYBR

ty ty ty!

I actually commentated on this final table TWICE.  Live on American TV (with Daniel Negreanu) and then a couple of months later in post-production (with William Reynolds).

The heads-up battle went on for several hours and I remember watching Chris Oliver slowly self-destruct over the course of 50-60 hands.  I believe he attended the PCA party the night before - and I don't think he recovered in time for the most important day of poker of his life!!!

beaneh

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

i just wanted to stab him for wearing that cap at 90degree angle to his forehead
Posted by LOL_RAISE

so he has outplayed you when he got dressed lol. 

AMYBR

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) : ty ty ty! I actually commentated on this final table TWICE.  Live on American TV (with Daniel Negreanu) and then a couple of months later in post-production (with William Reynolds). The heads-up battle went on for several hours and I remember watching Chris Oliver slowly self-destruct over the course of 50-60 hands.  I believe he attended the PCA party the night before - and I don't think he recovered in time for the most important day of poker of his life!!!
Posted by J-Hartigan

Lol I was hoping you'd see this

It was funny to watch as most generic american commentators would have picked Oliver apart but it was just so much better done with the British reserve.  Could tell you wanted say alot more but it almost seemed like you felt sad and exsasperated for the guy

What you say about him self destructing was clear.  After that second double up it didnt seem as though he knew what hit him.  He'd been so stacked for so long he was just playing monopoly money chip poker, you can just see that he loose the plot completely.  Oliver and Hall were just polar opposites of skill and patience.

What did Negranue make of him when it airing live? 

J-Hartigan

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) : Lol I was hoping you'd see this It was funny to watch as most generic american commentators would have picked Oliver apart but it was just so much better done with the British reserve.  Could tell you wanted say alot more but it almost seemed like you felt sad and exsasperated for the guy What you say about him self destructing was clear.  After that second double up it didnt seem as though he knew what hit him.  He'd been so stacked for so long he was just playing monopoly money chip poker, you can just see that he loose the plot completely.  Oliver and Hall were just polar opposites of skill and patience. What did Negranue make of him when it airing live? 
Posted by AMYBR

Daniel was impressed with Oliver at the start: when he was wielding the big stack and bullying his opponents.

When the action got heads-up, we both noted that Hall was "in the zone" - while Oliver was looking increasingly tired and uncomfortable.  Negreanu predicted Hall would win it, even when Oliver still had the chip advantage.

AMYBR

Without doing Oliver a dis service, he appeared to me to be your quintissential online luckbox.

MoneyMaker was the only person that seemed to read him well.  If I remember right he only developed his stack by catching real slim lines then making a mahoosive 3 or 4 bet allin pre with 8's vs K's, binking the flop.  Again, without intending to be rude I dont think I saw any real skill or finesse based play.

Conversley, an argument could be made that fearlessly 3 betting pre isnt the worst approach.  However doing it when your image is shot to hell is never going to be that smart...................unless you ran as hot as he did.

Myeh...Just as everyone has a great book in them, I guess everyone has a great MTT in them

NoseyBonk

I liked the bit where they were chatting and Hall slapped him down. Oliver asked something like have you ever played a final table for this much money (can't remember the exact quote). Hall gave a great reply along the lines of oh only the first and third weekend of every month.

AMYBR

Funniest part of that was Hartigan highlighting the fact it went right over Olivers head Lmao.  Genius

J-Hartigan

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

I liked the bit where they were chatting and Hall slapped him down. Oliver asked something like have you ever played a final table for this much money (can't remember the exact quote). Hall gave a great reply along the lines of oh only the first and third weekend of every month.
Posted by NoseyBonk

When Hall came back at him with that quick-witted response, I sssssoooooo wanted him to win!

beaneh

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

Without doing Oliver a dis service, he appeared to me to be your quintissential online luckbox. MoneyMaker was the only person that seemed to read him well.  If I remember right he only developed his stack by catching real slim lines then making a mahoosive 3 or 4 bet allin pre with 8's vs K's, binking the flop.  Again, without intending to be rude I dont think I saw any real skill or finesse based play. Conversley, an argument could be made that fearlessly 3 betting pre isnt the worst approach.  However doing it when your image is shot to hell is never going to be that smart...................unless you ran as hot as he did. Myeh...Just as everyone has a great book in them, I guess everyone has a great MTT in them
Posted by AMYBR

Getting daize will be fine with you thinking this, he'll have to console himself with his over $3mill online tourny winnings.

btw if you honestly think he is bad or cant work out why what he was doing is good you are a fish.

AMYBR

I do fully understand, it being great when that approach works.

"Conversley, an argument could be made that fearlessly 3 betting pre isnt the worst approach.  However doing it when your image is shot to hell is never going to be that smart.................." - This might have been enlightening if you had read on.

I hear what your saying but if you think 3betting 8's massive for your whole stack is skillful, or drawing to slim lines is skillfull, or continually getting it in bad.....or 3 betting pre super weak when image is shot to hell is skillful then thats your choice.

Maybe his online game isnt quite as bad as this.  Its easy to lose your head a little with a stack that big.  But if you find anything admirable in his approach to this tornament then you are a "choose your own word".

He simply luckboxed his way through for the most part in this PCA. Maybe he plays differently in other games but I find it shocking that you would defend it.

beaneh

Is everyone 4ing all in with any two? no 

why?

because there is so much money on the line, his approach is excellent. any big stack who does anything other than pure unadulterated aggression is playing their stack badly.

AMYBR

If he doesnt spike his 8 in that hand he's practically gone, just like if he doesnt spike in countless hands he's crippled.  I think you give the guy far to much credit.

Yes very aggro, being very aggro with alot of money on the line can be a great approach.

He got very lucky many times.  He wasnt vieing to put himself into a position to win through any higher thinking, just aimlessly 3 betting hoping to squek hands through.  Firing bullets in all directions with no real thought process.

This is why a logical thinking player like Hall was always going to pick him apart with a 4/1 chip defecit.

beaneh

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

If he doesnt spike his 8 in that hand he's practically gone, just like if he doesnt spike in countless hands he's crippled.  I think you give the guy far to much credit. Yes very aggro, being very aggro with alot of money on the line can be a great approach. He got very lucky many times.  He wasnt vieing to put himself into a position to win through any higher thinking, just aimlessly 3 betting hoping to squek hands through.  Firing bullets in all directions with no real thought process. This is why a logical thinking player like Hall was always going to pick him apart with a 4/1 chip defecit.
Posted by AMYBR

ahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

you're funny.

if you're not a massive level then this is why you suck at online. 

I give up. 

AMYBR

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) : ahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa you're funny. if you're not a massive level then this is why you suck at online.  I give up. 
Posted by beaneh

I didnt ask you start Beaney.  You really are an arrogant sod.

You come straight in firing contempt and insults, believing that all other POV's are inferior to your own.

Not really interested in speaking to you again.

beaneh

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) : I didnt ask you start Beaney.  You really are an arrogant sod. You come straight in firing contempt and insults, believing that all other POV's are inferior to your own. Not really interested in speaking to you again.
Posted by AMYBR

Ironically i'd say the same about you, yet I can back up what I say with logic and reasoning and you give reasons such as 'well I lose over a 9 hand sample so online is rigged, and for luckboxes'.

You also seem to be telling us that getting daize is terrible and yet all the evidence again points to you being wrong.

LOL_RAISE

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

This is why a logical thinking player like Hall was always going to pick him apart with a 4/1 chip defecit.
Posted by AMYBR

i disagree with this, yes the 68 call is probably pretty bad but im sure he got his money in with ~30% equity about 3 times with his opponent covered and he lost all 3, then got QQvA8cc aipf for roughly half the chips in play and lost.

RAB642

   if oliver had raised his house against straight hand instead of shoving, hall would have shoved, that was the hand that turned it all round.

  p.s you are spot on james, oliver actually says he didn`t get in till after 5 in the morning ( he was wasted )

AMYBR

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) : Ironically i'd say the same about you, yet I can back up what I say with logic and reasoning and you give reasons such as 'well I lose over a 9 hand sample so online is rigged, and for luckboxes'. You also seem to be telling us that getting daize is terrible and yet all the evidence again points to you being wrong.
Posted by beaneh

This will be the final comment i put to you, simply because your just purely antagonistic - hijacking this thread just to be rude for the sake of it, as usual.

The content of your post is fantasy, I dont believe I've ever said anything like that. 

If you actually look I say more than once daize may play diff online (as in better), or was paticularly spewy in this individual game, rather than him being a bad player.

J-Hartigan

I believe the live broadcast of the PCA final table is archived somewhere on-line.  Yes, all 8+ hours of it!

This version - which shows every single hand, including the entire heads-up battle - gives a much better idea of Oliver's (considerable) talent and his subsequent hungover/tired implosion.

beaneh

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) :

In Response to Re: Chris Oliver in PCA. Genius or prime douche? (asked lightheartedly as answer is clear) : This will be the final comment i put to you, simply because your just purely antagonistic - hijacking this thread just to be rude for the sake of it, as usual. The content of your post is fantasy, I dont believe I've ever said anything like that. 
Posted by AMYBR

ha.

So every time you post a thread, 'with an idea for discussion' and then people discuss it and you go full circle and explain how you're right all along that's you helping us out kindly?

The fact that you then post guff like Chris Oliver is bad is just comical. You cant beat online and yet you know more than a man that has played over 20k online MTTs lifetime with a huge return on his investment?! 

Obviously because he raises some bad cards he must be a bad player, he's just one of them lucky people. Us unlucky people never win it's not fair .................

Feel free to actually discuss the pros and cons of what he was doing rather than just complaning that i'm so nasty for trying to enlighten you as to why your blinkered opinion is wrong.