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DYM cash bubble with a short stack all in - how wrong is betting??
I hate anyone betting on the cash bubble of a DYM after the short stack is all in. It serves no purpose whatsoever and ettiquette states the hand is quietly checked down. Occassionaly you do see it happen and I just type in chat box - y?
Just had a pearler tonight where it happened twice in one game. The results are irrelevant but I thought i'd post them to listen to anyone elses thoughts.
The first one, I was all in and after the post flop bet i even typed in my usual -y?. Even tho a fold would protect my hand......
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Hale72 | Small blind | 150.00 | 150.00 | 1020.00 | |
| tpez | Big blind | 300.00 | 450.00 | 1170.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| SwansFC | Call | 300.00 | 750.00 | 7150.00 | |
| THEHITMAN7 | Call | 300.00 | 1050.00 | 1610.00 | |
| Hale72 | All-in | 1020.00 | 2070.00 | 0.00 | |
| tpez | Fold | ||||
| SwansFC | Call | 870.00 | 2940.00 | 6280.00 | |
| THEHITMAN7 | Call | 870.00 | 3810.00 | 740.00 | |
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| SwansFC | Check | ||||
| THEHITMAN7 | All-in | 740.00 | 4550.00 | 0.00 | |
| SwansFC | Call | 740.00 | 5290.00 | 5540.00 | |
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| River | |||||
| |||||
| Hale72 | Show |
| |||
| SwansFC | Muck |
| |||
| THEHITMAN7 | Show |
| |||
| THEHITMAN7 | Win | Two Pairs, Kings and 10s | 1480.00 | 1480.00 | |
| Hale72 | Win | Full House, 8s and Kings | 3810.00 | 3810.00 | |
| SwansFC | Small blind | 200.00 | 200.00 | 5590.00 | |
| THEHITMAN7 | Big blind | 400.00 | 600.00 | 1530.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| Hale72 | Fold | ||||
| tpez | All-in | 195.00 | 795.00 | 0.00 | |
| SwansFC | Raise | 600.00 | 1395.00 | 4990.00 | |
| THEHITMAN7 | Fold | ||||
| Flop | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| |||||
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| River | |||||
| |||||
| SwansFC | Show |
| |||
| tpez | Muck |
| |||
| SwansFC | Win | Pair of Kings | 1395.00 | 6385. | |
Comments
If I hit top 2 pair on the flop I am always betting. I apologise in the chatbox for betting and both others replied no problem, you took the hand.
I don't see a problem with betting if you have the hand.
Can you answer me this. What advantage did you have by betting? Were you going to win back your rake or something???
2 pair is hardly the nuts is it? Why risk your opponents folding the winning hand and you getting rivered by the short stack who has just now quadrupled up.
If you were so short that the small stack quadrupling up would put you in trouble enough to warrant taking the side pot then it should have been an insta fold and hope someone else takes him out. Your stack is then intact and the small stack can only reach 585.
The idea of a DYM is exactly that. To finish third or better. On the bubble to cash, you did not need to win the hand. Just ensure the small stack lost it. By keeping your opponents in the pot you are maximising the chances that the small stack will go out.
I will certainly think again before betting on the bubble of a DYM game in future.
In the game I mentioned, I was the 2nd shortest stack at the time but had over 2400 chips. I was on the button and betting did give the the extra 595 chips from the blinds. I was only thinking of my own stack at the time to win the game and not of the bigger picture. But as it has been pointed out, 3rd place is also a winner in these games.
I do see my mistake and will not bet in the future on the bubble.
Also as I said in my earlier post, there is a very limited time to bet after an all in. But I stress, very limited. If the short stack quadrupling up at your expense puts you in danger then, in the first place you should not be in the pot, thus meaning the shortie can only triple up. This should keep distance between you and the shortie. Secondly, if you were unlucky enough to be in the blinds when this happens and there is a large enough side pot. then yes, O.K. but you then put yourself at the risk of elimination. So 99% of the time it is not worth it.
What most angers me, and yes, I have seen it is when there is a shortie all in and the big stack pushes all in post flop causing the remaining two to fold. I had this on one occassion where the big stack turned over jack high, a total bluff! The shortie then went on to quadruple up. Pointless and his exceptional poor play is ultimately affecting our bankroll and ROI.
I am also heavily in favour of having the chat automatically disabled when an all in. Having been on the receiving end of what is poor ettiquette recently when I pushed UTG (as short and the blinds would have eaten me up next 2 hands) and the big blind typed in 'help'. Totally wrong imo.
It is purely bubble play on DYM's that annoys me.
If this thread teaches just one person, (which it has) then its purpose has been fruitful.
I'm never one to moan at folds, too much calling here at times anyway but its hardly gonna put that big a dent into your stack and even if he quadruples, he's still no real threat as he is likeley to be in the blinds next hand anyway as invariably they have pushed from UTG as they are in the bb next regardless.
2 3 is equally likely to take out the shortie as q 9.
So to sum up, too many people call when they shouldn't then fold when they should be calling.
This happened in a game I have just finished.
The small stack was just all in with about 1000 chips. (yes, he was the small stack.) The under the gun had already raised enough to put him all in. I called with queens. Yes, not perhaps the best move but I had both covered but hey using the rule 2 heads are better than one.....
low flop, turn and river. it went check, check, bet!
Couldnt believe it!! I had to call as I still had that overpair to the board.
Card turned over, All in had 8's The better had 7's and I had queens. No one had made any improvement. Had I not called the villian the 800 bet then the shortie would have tripled through putting all of us back in danger!!
After the hand I asked why he bet. There were overcards to his pair. Guess what, silence.
I always check down if there is a shortstack and a chance to knock the player out, but there have been 2 instances where I have bet, but only because I know I have the nuts and another player had deicided they wanted to bet, basicaly shortstack goes "All in" I call with AKh, 1 other caller, flop goes perfect, perfect, perfect Hearts nut flush, villain raises, I call, turn blank, villain bets, I call, river blank, villain raises, I go "All in" Villain calls, I knock out 2 instead of 1, have done this only twice, but each time removed 2 players.
If that happened more often then this practise would soon stop.
I am in fully agreement of this Post Hale.
I often get frustrated when an opponent is all in, for example i had K,Q a hand which is a reasonable call if its against a much smaller stack, say two people call and flop comes J,3,4 and one opponent bets taking the other two of us out with nothing.
Admittedly i dont mind it so much if they win, but im all for checking down an all in opponent/.
However, I played in a DYM game tonight where I am still not sure if the right play was made.
Here is the hand:
The issues for me are:
1. The SB doesn't have a hand but he knows that if the BB folds, then the BB will be completely down to the felt (200 chips which won't make up the 400 SB next hand).
2. The SB is losing the chance that a completely random BB hand will knock out the UTG player. If the BB wins the hand the game is over. If the hand is checked down and the UTG player wins, then the BB is still down to 200. If the BB calls and the SB beats the BB the game is over.
3. The blinds are extremely high and the SB is the only player with any sort of stack.
At the time, I was screaming "NOOOOOOOOOO!" (not purely from self-interest!) but I'm really not sure now.
Opinion at the table was divided. On reflection, I still don't like the bet.
Any thoughts?
I only had to make up 160 chips but as I had 800 already invested I had no choice as either way, I could not cover the SB next hand. My hand was not spectacular but hey, 2 heads are better than one and I was not losing out, as like I say, regardless I could not make the next blind.
I fully expected to see check, check, check. But unfortunately I found myself on the end of a bet.
Either way, I had no hand at this point so had to fold. And yes, by checking it down, even if I lost, I was no threat to the table as I had less than a SB. If I won, the game was over and we all cashed.
Yes I folded and I held a 7 which would have put the shortie out and we all would have cashed.
As a result, I ended up 4th. Although the game carried on for quite some time afterwards.
Perhaps the perpatrator would like to refund me my £11.00!!!!!!!!!
Come on, you know who you are, betting a dry side pot on the cash bubble. You have posted on the forum VERY recently how this is bad play and not honourable.
I have never played him before but know who this player is and found it very strange, perhaps it needs analasys on the open this saturday night.
I would certainly like it thoroughly discusssed by the team for their in depth thoughts as to whether a complete bluff was the right way to go.
An expert could shine serious insight on this.
By the way, before I get banned, This was a lol post.
Although, I would still like my money back!!!!
Err.....I have a horrible feeling I may have been the Villain in one of these coups......
Can you enlighten me? Then I can make my excuses.
I forgot the names after I took them out!!!!
An explanation would be nice.... LOL
I play so much poker, I tend to forget what I did, when. But I do know my sides were aching with laughter at the Chat-Box banter throughout those DYM's last night.
If I played bad, my bad, & I apologise.
There was another wholly different "odd" hand last night, when we were 4 handed. And that one was, I thought, very interesting.
With 4 left, the Shortie shoved, then I, as 2nd chip, re-shoved with Q-Q - & then the player behind me re-re-shoved - with A-A.
Can anyone Post the Hand History for that one?
Still stinging....
hi mere, personally i never play dym's on here or let alone any other site... the reason being as already mentioned... the majority of people dont truly understand the concept of a dym in comparison to a mtt (unless u play regulars).. they just want to accumalate chips which ever way they can and ... and do not see it as a top 3 finish but as a let me get me another 4 league points added to my account! checking down whats that????? lol;-)) good luck tho....