You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!
What do you do in this spot and why?
| hardman07 | Small blind | £0.25 | £0.25 | £69.81 | |
| essentia12 | Big blind | £0.50 | £0.75 | £61.32 | |
| Jibbz | Sit out | ||||
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| honestdave | Call | £0.50 | £1.25 | £16.35 | |
| genie444 | Call | £0.50 | £1.75 | £25.43 | |
| AyrGraeme | Raise | £2.50 | £4.25 | £47.50 | |
| hardman07 | Fold | ||||
| essentia12 | Call | £2.00 | £6.25 | £59.32 | |
| honestdave | Call | £2.00 | £8.25 | £14.35 | |
| genie444 | Call | £2.00 | £10.25 | £23.43 | |
| Flop | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| |||||
| essentia12 | Check | ||||
| honestdave | Check | ||||
| genie444 | Check | ||||
| AyrGraeme | |||||
Comments
b/c or value. Im trying to think if I ever b/f here but probably not.
I think it's a check all day long for the following reasons:
1. Either way ahead or way behind
2. Control the pot v anyone with 5
3. I think I can only get 2 streets of value v KJ K/10 K/9 and more likely to get the 2 streets if you show weakness on the first (and you only need 2 streets anyway to get all the chips off the shorter stacks)
4. I can prob only get one street of value v pp and possibly 2 if I show weakness
5. I lets rag hands catch up a bit and very few rag hands are going to catch up and beat me on that board. 2 pair hands can't catch me excpet the Kx hands where x is 6+ and they are likely to call anyway on flop. The only risks are runner runner hands for straights flushes or a pp spiking the house with 2 outer
6. The potential profits letting someone catch up is +EV compared to potential losses being runner runnered
The reasons given so far I see no reason not to leave it to the turn and get the same outcome.
2. meh, maybe, certainly wouldnt be my biggest concern
3. possibly, depends on villain and dynamic. If they are limpcalling these hands you might well get 3 streets, and I think if you lead you nearly always get 2 streets from Kx
4. Probably true. However if you check you might miss value if a bigger card comes
5,6 are true
There is certainly merit to checking, especially ip when 2 of villains are shorty limpcallers. I like it a lot less in a hu pot, as I find people love to spew on these boards, and they are more likely to do it on flop. Also the shorties may shove stuff like 77 if you bet flop
Think a check here is just asking to be outdrawn by anyone of these rag aces )
If someone has come along with a 5 then whatever
You still may get a lot of value from a KQ - BET BET BET )
In Response to Re: What do you do in this spot and why?:
1. Agreed - but points 5 + 6 lean me towards saying it is on this occasion2. It's not a concern I'm calling any turn and river bets
3. I can still get 2 streets the only way I want 3 streets is if the bigger stak has the KQ KJ K10. Possibly but not probable.
4. I agree with this but there are more smaller cards so I am playing the % and fair chance you can still get one street of value if something like a 10 falls
If the shorties are going to shove 77 on flop they will also and possible more likely shove on turn
Thanks for the post some very good points
Can't be outdrawn by a rag ace bud - check my hole cards again
I can still get all the chips from KQ form 2 out the 3 players by checking.
If you bet - Kings will call
If you check - Kings will bet, underpairs may bet
I guess either is ok, but I am just betting here thinking I can easily get value from another player who is holding a K or underpair if there pre action is so dam STATION !
Good post
what dudeskin said!
its a b/ call off for me, vs two shorties anyway
Im not saying i wont ever check this board, because sometimes i might. But vs poor players im always betting.
But by betting for value we are also charging people to hit their 2 outers
Good post mate - you are still the only one to say they would bet the flop that I see making a reasonable argument from both points of view
The reason I posted this is because I like to provide alternative points of view to the cliches which are trotted out regularly when giving advice. Things like do the betting - raise more - normally things which involve putting chips in the pot - personally I think it's a macho, ego type thing.
Now I am not saying check with top pair v 3 opponents - generally not a clever strategy. But it's about risk reward - and varying play. Anyone out there who does not have the cahoonies to check top pair in this situation, I believe never will. Very few hands can catch up on the turn except the KJ type hands mentioned by Greg who will call the flop anyway and catch the card regardless of bet or check. If you are going to play poker paranoid about 2 outers catching then you aint gonna profit.
I still maintain checking here has greater +EV than betting the reason being a lot more hands can catch up on the turn and still be behind than can catch up and go ahead - anyone else with a K still has 2 streets of betting for me to get value off
Anyway here is the turn anyone who dislikes my flop play will positively hate this. I will happily accept the point of view for charging draws - 2 diamonds and 6/7 are now a danger but he could also be feeler cos he hit the 4 or stop betting his pocket 6s or 7s. I got a bit greedy and thought reraising the turn after checking the flop would chase away anything other than someone with 5 in their hand. One player had already folded and it was risky with the guy behind but the guy betting had about 3/4 the pot left and I knew I could bet the river sensible amount if needed to put him in but I actually had a feeling he would shove the river anyway with a draw if I showed weakness - whether it hit or missed. Since he will hit only 1 in 5 chance of winning whether it is a flush or open ended draw the odds are in my favour. The gut still to act is a bit of a worry with his stack and I know you don't want to give him a cheap card but again a calculated risk on my feel for the situation. Again there are also still plenty hands he might call with like pp or even A high but knowing he acted 1st after river would help. Turns out he folded anyway.
So in short I wanted to keep the bettor in till the river and I am putting him all in if he does not do so himself (at this point I thought he might) and I feel a reraise at this point gets rid of him. If he has hit the 4 or has a pp then I think he puts me on something like A/10 or A/J by calling and will think his hand is good. If he has a draw I am still 80% favourite. If he has the 5 he stacks me anyway.
It was a ballsy play I know, some might say stupid but hey ho. Discuss.......................
It's a horrible spot 4 way but one you should be ahead in against decent players.
If you hit the turn heads up bet out again if your three way control the pot if your 4 way its a fold