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What do you do in this spot and why?

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  • AyrGraemeAyrGraeme
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: What do you do in this spot and why?:
    In Response to Re: What do you do in this spot and why? : Mr Torino, as per my earlier post. I AM betting for value! But by betting for value we are also charging people to hit their 2 outers
    Posted by GREGHOGG
    Good point about flop bet for value for v pocket pairs but I still think we can do that on most turns especially since we gave the impression we don't have K.  By checking we open up more potential hands we can bet for value against
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  • AyrGraemeAyrGraeme
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: What do you do in this spot and why?:
    My response is from a NL4 player mate, as in you danny bet you danny win lolz. Maybe higher up you can start playing cute and that.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    I appreciate your point mate as that is how I started out - and it's a good fairly autopilot type way which will work and reap a steady profit - I just think this is one case when it's best to check and even with the same relative stacks at NL4 I think it's a good play - in terms of don't bet don't win, I have every intention of betting - just not the flop - as I already said 2 out the 3 players have stacks that only need 2 bet calls to commit all their chips
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  • AyrGraemeAyrGraeme
    edited July 2011
    Anyway here is the outcome. Well done all those who bet the flop and won a tenner.  Go down the pub and buy yourself a few drinks.  I, on the otherhand will take my 37, buy a nice lady some drinks and take her onto a club
    hardman07 Small blind  £0.25 £0.25 £69.81
    essentia12 Big blind  £0.50 £0.75 £61.32
    Jibbz Sit out     
      Your hole cards
    • A
    • K
    		     
    honestdave Call  £0.50 £1.25 £16.35
    genie444 Call  £0.50 £1.75 £25.43
    AyrGraeme Raise  £2.50 £4.25 £47.50
    hardman07 Fold     
    essentia12 Call  £2.00 £6.25 £59.32
    honestdave Call  £2.00 £8.25 £14.35
    genie444 Call  £2.00 £10.25 £23.43
    Flop
       
    • K
    • 5
    • 5
    		     
    essentia12 Check     
    honestdave Check     
    genie444 Check     
    AyrGraeme Check     
    Turn
       
    • 4
    		     
    essentia12 Check     
    honestdave Bet  £3.00 £13.25 £11.35
    genie444 Fold     
    AyrGraeme Call  £3.00 £16.25 £44.50
    essentia12 Fold     
    River
       
    • 8
    		     
    honestdave Check     
    AyrGraeme Bet  £12.19 £28.44 £32.31
    honestdave All-in  £11.35 £39.79 £0.00
    AyrGraeme Unmatched bet  £0.84 £38.95 £33.15
    honestdave Show
    • 4
    • A
    		   
    AyrGraeme Show
    • A
    • K
    		   
    AyrGraeme Win Two Pairs, Kings and 5s £37.15
     
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited July 2011
    Only read OP, sorry if repeating.

    For me I'm leading here half pot every time.  Mainly because if you check bsck, then call bet at turn or lead turn there are few players who will get involved, your hand becomes very transparent.

    Your more likely to get played back at or called with air off flop than turn, no turn cards will stimulate significant action.  Plus I dont really want to go to turn 4 handed.  You'll get called wider on flop than you would on later streets, also inflating the pot may cause someone to make a play at it on turn/river.

    Essentialy you have a nut hand, but I also want to lead here to feel out multiple ranges.  You cant discount a 5.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited July 2011
    wow he paid with a 4 lol
    maybe honestdave should read this thread on how players do check TPTK
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  • pr1nnyraidpr1nnyraid
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: What do you do in this spot and why?:
    In Response to Re: What do you do in this spot and why? : As I've said to all these replies what are the advantages of doing this on the flop that you don't get from waiting until the turn?
    Posted by AyrGraeme
    Everybody seems to have overlooked that you may want to bet here as part of solidifying your overall game. This hand in isolation, maybe you do get most value from the check back. But if you are playing against thinking players who are taking notes etc you would consider the flop c-bet as part of balancing the range of hands you c bet with in this kind of spot, after all you want to be able to take this pot down with a flop c-bet when you have AQ AJ or whatever...

    Also, everyone checks back top pair on a paired board, i would be more wary of a player checking back a flop then trying to get value on later streets rather than leading out. Again some of the easiest money comes when you make people sp.azz out, here you could get a check raise from air/ a pocket pair/ a king you dominate (or the 5).
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: What do you do in this spot and why?:
    In Response to Re: What do you do in this spot and why? : I appreciate your point mate as that is how I started out - and it's a good fairly autopilot type way which will work and reap a steady profit - I just think this is one case when it's best to check and even with the same relative stacks at NL4 I think it's a good play - in terms of don't bet don't win, I have every intention of betting - just not the flop - as I already said 2 out the 3 players have stacks that only need 2 bet calls to commit all their chips
    Posted by AyrGraeme
    LOL if the guy is calling off his stack on river with bottom pair I doubt he folds Ace high on flop. Then when he hits turn he will probably just keep paying you off.

    Bet flop FTW.

    BTW mate you won £16. :)
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: What do you do in this spot and why?:
    In Response to Re: What do you do in this spot and why? : LOL if the guy is calling off his stack on river with bottom pair I doubt he folds Ace high on flop. Then when he hits turn he will probably just keep paying you off. Bet flop FTW. BTW mate you won £16. :)
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    How much more money does he make by betting flop?
    A4 mighnt like his hand as much when he faces a 4way cbet on flop and a barrell on turn

    Most importantly, try widening the way you think about the game. 95% of your posts go do this I do it at 4NL and I make a profit. That doesnt mean you are maximising your profit, or that other lines are not viable also (The majority of your  advice is good,Im just saying be open to other ways of playing).

    Betting may well be best on flop here, and fish may call it off anyway, but its certainly not going to be that much more profitable than letting another card comedown and betting turn
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited July 2011
    Of course playing higher up you open your game and play fancy, check, deceive etc, I'm not silly. It's just where I play if I don't bet I don't get paid so this is my opinion.

    When I eventually move up I will open up heck I am very open in tourneys where I play more for fun but at NL4 I don't need to play fancy as for me it just doesn't work. I'm sure many people including you will disagree with how I play NL4 and say its too tight but it works for me so I carry on.
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  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited July 2011
    tight is might.
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  • AyrGraemeAyrGraeme
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: What do you do in this spot and why?:
    In Response to Re: What do you do in this spot and why? : LOL if the guy is calling off his stack on river with bottom pair I doubt he folds Ace high on flop. Then when he hits turn he will probably just keep paying you off. Bet flop FTW. BTW mate you won £16. :)
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    I won a £38.95 pot of which I put in £17.69 - that's winning £21.26 by my calulations but hey - who is splitting hairs lol
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  • AyrGraemeAyrGraeme
    edited July 2011
    In Response to Re: What do you do in this spot and why?:
    In Response to Re: What do you do in this spot and why? : How much more money does he make by betting flop? A4 mighnt like his hand as much when he faces a 4way cbet on flop and a barrell on turn Most importantly, try widening the way you think about the game. 95% of your posts go do this I do it at 4NL and I make a profit. That doesnt mean you are maximising your profit, or that other lines are not viable also (The majority of your  advice is good,Im just saying be open to other ways of playing). Betting may well be best on flop here, and fish may call it off anyway, but its certainly not going to be that much more profitable than letting another card comedown and betting turn
    Posted by grantorino
    Excellent point. This is exactly the reason I posted this
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