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WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............

DAVEYZZDAVEYZZ
edited August 2011 in Area 51

sky stopped rigging hand for action to induce rake?.

obviously i of the opinion that its not "fixed for action"

but for arguments sake lets say it is..........what would happen if they reset it so it was'nt............my thoughts later

dave

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  • iBLUFFiBLUFF
    edited August 2011
    What makes me lol is, people who post tournament hands and say sky have fixed them. What benifit to sky would this be to fix tournament hands?
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited August 2011
    In Response to WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    sky stopped rigging hand for action to induce rake?. obviously i of the opinion that its not "fixed for action" but for arguments sake lets say it is..........what would happen if they reset it so it was'nt............my thoughts later dave
    Posted by DAVEYZZ
    Do you mean what would happen if sky started rigging hands the other way?

    Nobody ever made good hands and there were less coolers and big collisions?

    There'd be less variance, less hands would go to showdown and the more aggressive/good players would win even more money.
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited August 2011
    the same as what happens when you  search for google usuing google, the interweb explodes
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  • DAVEYZZDAVEYZZ
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    In Response to WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : Do you mean what would happen if sky started rigging hands the other way? Nobody ever made good hands and there were less coolers and big collisions? There'd be less variance, less hands would go to showdown and the more aggressive/good players would win even more money.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    no...not rigged the other way..just stop rigging..

    what i think is there would be no difference in the amount of rake sky accumulated.

    say you open two tables of nl50p and bought in for £50 on each what is your objective? ...to make as many buyins as possible obviously.

    therefore no matter what hands are played out i think you will always get big pots and rake.
    it doesnt matter if its aa v kk or 23off v q9 there will always be players wanting to get it all in with top pair/draws etc.

    so basically what im thinking is sky would not lose out on rake if its rigged or not.

    gl,dave

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  • DAVEYZZDAVEYZZ
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    the same as what happens when you  search for google usuing google, the interweb explodes
    Posted by grantorino
    omg dont EVER! do that!
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : no...not rigged the other way..just stop rigging.. what i think is there would be no difference in the amount of rake sky accumulated. say you open two tables of nl50p and bought in for £50 on each what is your objective? ...to make as many buyins as possible obviously. therefore no matter what hands are played out i think you will always get big pots and rake. it doesnt matter if its aa v kk or 23off v q9 there will always be players wanting to get it all in with top pair/draws etc. so basically what im thinking is sky would not lose out on rake if its rigged or not. gl,dave
    Posted by DAVEYZZ
    Well this is impossible to answer for people like u and I as it would be exactly the same as it is now.
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited August 2011
    The only thing that would happen is SKY would have to shut down the site as it has such a TINY player base that if it actually continued to shuffle instead of having pre determined hands there would defo be less action , that IS a fact xx
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited August 2011
    In Response to WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    sky stopped rigging hand for action to induce rake?. obviously i of the opinion that its not "fixed for action" but for arguments sake lets say it is..........what would happen if they reset it so it was'nt............my thoughts later dave
    Posted by DAVEYZZ
    DAVE you are a very experienced player and if you actually did believe that it was NOT rigged for action then i would be seriously worried xx
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  • baggsbaggs
    edited August 2011
    Rigged and not random are completely different though. Cant see Sky ever getting involved in rigging hands personally. Can I envisage a scenario where either the RNG is not random or some alogrithm applied post shuffle means it is not, yes I can? Cant see sky benefit from that though
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited August 2011
    Its NOT rigged in favour of any player , when i say rigged for action i think that explains itself xx
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  • DAVEYZZDAVEYZZ
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    In Response to WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : DAVE you are a very experienced player and if you actually did believe that it was NOT rigged for action then i would be seriously worried xx
    Posted by debdobs_67
    old(50) yes, very experienced,not really,i have only been playing five years or so......but what i think is if it is rigged it would make no difference to rake if it was not....
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : old(50) yes, very experienced,not really,i have only been playing five years or so......but what i think is if it is rigged it would make no difference to rake if it was not....
    Posted by DAVEYZZ
    Well i disagree but i know ure a nice fella so i aint gonna argue and GL at the tables xxx
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited August 2011

    What difference does it make that the cards are pre determined?

    If all possible combinations of cards are loaded into the database and then 1 hand chosen at random, then it's the same thing as being constantly shuffled surely?


    --------


    If I put 6 pebbles in a bag, each one with a number 1-6 on them, and 1 is randomly selected, it's exactly the same as rolling a dice, right?



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  • NoseyBonkNoseyBonk
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    What difference does it make that the cards are pre determined? If all possible combinations of cards are loaded into the database and then 1 hand chosen at random, then it's the same thing as being constantly shuffled surely? -------- If I put 6 pebbles in a bag, each one with a number 1-6 on them, and 1 is randomly selected, it's exactly the same as rolling a dice, right?
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Randomly 'shuffled' once pre-deal -vs- that plus randomly additional 'shuffling' between streets

    Probability of specific cards being dealt next with one system versus the other - no different.




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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : Randomly 'shuffled' once pre-deal -vs- that plus randomly additional 'shuffling' between streets Probability of specific cards being dealt next with one system versus the other - no different.
    Posted by NoseyBonk
    This is exactly the same as live poker then? (I assume) 
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  • NoseyBonkNoseyBonk
    edited August 2011
    Indeed.
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : This is exactly the same as live poker then? (I assume) 
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Hmmm i think im hittin a brick wall with you here dohhh yeah ??

    Right put it another way then , i invite you around with a few others and i have say 500 decks of cards , BUT I pre determine the hands , in other words i FIX the decks yeah ?? how would you feel if i told ya i had done this after you lost a fair few quid ?? would you trust me ?? would you say ' oh well' as long as you didnt deal me the specific hands where i lost all of my money then i dont care ?? OR would you say thats awful of me to do that and i want my money back ?? xxx

    Now IF i took say 3% of each pot in this way would you say i deliberately did this in order to ensure i got a tidy sum for the night ??
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : Hmmm i think im hittin a brick wall with you here dohhh yeah ?? Right put it another way then , i invite you around with a few others and i have say 500 decks of cards , BUT I pre determine the hands , in other words i FIX the decks yeah ?? how would you feel if i told ya i had done this after you lost a fair few quid ?? would you trust me ?? would you say ' oh well' as long as you didnt deal me the specific hands where i lost all of my money then i dont care ?? OR would you say thats awful of me to do that and i want my money back ?? xxx Now IF i took say 3% of each pot in this way would you say i deliberately did this in order to ensure i got a tidy sum for the night ??
    Posted by debdobs_67
    I would object, u wud need like billions of gazillions of pre determined hands to make them fair, like every possible conbo of cards pre loaded in a deck. U wudnt be able to fit that many decks in your house.

    Use the dice analogy, as using numbers this big is ridicculous, the possibilites are endless....

    If we're playing monopoly and u say "instead of using a dice, lets pick a number between 1 and 12 out of a hat instead" - but you have already put the numbers in the hat before I got there, and instead of 1 - 12, u have put 6 6's and 4 12's, as well as 1 of every other number, then u have pre determined the possible outcomes wrongly, rather than fairly. 

    U've rigged it so that a certain number is rolled more often than the other numbers!


    If you put 1 of each number on a bit of paper in a hat, then pick 1 out randomly, it's still fair.


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  • NoseyBonkNoseyBonk
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : Hmmm i think im hittin a brick wall with you here dohhh yeah ?? Right put it another way then , i invite you around with a few others and i have say 500 decks of cards , BUT I pre determine the hands , in other words i FIX the decks yeah ?? how would you feel if i told ya i had done this after you lost a fair few quid ?? would you trust me ?? would you say ' oh well' as long as you didnt deal me the specific hands where i lost all of my money then i dont care ?? OR would you say thats awful of me to do that and i want my money back ?? xxx Now IF i took say 3% of each pot in this way would you say i deliberately did this in order to ensure i got a tidy sum for the night ??
    Posted by debdobs_67
    That would be pretty shifty but that's not what happens live* or online*

    They have one pack that is shuffled pre-deal (and perhaps additionally during the action, makes no difference) and then dealt.


    * unless it's a seriously moody establishment that is yet to be busted! haha Like your hypothetical outfit :-D


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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited August 2011
    Ure both missin the point cos even IF i have billions of decks i can still set a large majority in a way to ensure action , and would you notice ?? dont think so xx
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : I would object, u wud need like billions of gazillions of pre determined hands to make them fair, like every possible conbo of cards pre loaded in a deck. U wudnt be able to fit that many decks in your house. Use the dice analogy, as using numbers this big is ridicculous, the possibilites are endless.... If we're playing monopoly and u say "instead of using a dice, lets pick a number between 1 and 12 out of a hat instead" - but you have already put the numbers in the hat before I got there, and instead of 1 - 12, u have put 6 6's and 4 12's, as well as 1 of every other number, then u have pre determined the possible outcomes wrongly, rather than fairly.  U've rigged it so that a certain number is rolled more often than the other numbers! If you put 1 of each number on a bit of paper in a hat, then pick 1 out randomly, it's still fair.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    You wouldnt fit them in a million houses
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : I would object, u wud need like billions of gazillions of pre determined hands to make them fair, like every possible conbo of cards pre loaded in a deck. U wudnt be able to fit that many decks in your house. Use the dice analogy, as using numbers this big is ridicculous, the possibilites are endless.... If we're playing monopoly and u say "instead of using a dice, lets pick a number between 1 and 12 out of a hat instead" - but you have already put the numbers in the hat before I got there, and instead of 1 - 12, u have put 6 6's and 4 12's, as well as 1 of every other number, then u have pre determined the possible outcomes wrongly, rather than fairly.  U've rigged it so that a certain number is rolled more often than the other numbers! If you put 1 of each number on a bit of paper in a hat, then pick 1 out randomly, it's still fair.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Of course its FAIR , im dealin randomely so anyone can win , im just makin sure i get a gd % xx
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited August 2011

    No you're rigging the decks for action. 

    If you had all the possible combos of cards a random shuffle would give you on a computer, and randomly picked a number between 1 and a bazillion. Say u randomly picked 157,467,468,564.

    Logged onto ur comp, and found 157,467,468,564 on your database of all possible combos of hands.

    It gave you AA v TJo, and a flop of 2 5 7 A J.

    You went back to your deck of cards, and fixed the deck so that the cards came out in that order. 

    That would be fine. Although the deck of cards is pre determined, it was picked at random from a gigantic sample of possible combos of hands, which covered every single possibility.

    Do this 499 more times and u have 500 pre-determined, random hands. 

    Obviously when this is done by your goodself, rather than a computer, you will know what hands  were randomly chosen in advance, so it wouldn't work, but if u got a machine to do it, it wud be fair. And easier ;)

    -----------------------

    The key tho is the pool/database of billions of pre determined hands that u chose from at random.
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  • NoseyBonkNoseyBonk
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    Ure both missin the point cos even IF i have billions of decks i can still set a large majority in a way to ensure action , and would you notice ?? dont think so xx
    Posted by debdobs_67


    "Billions of decks"?

    Both live and online deal with one pack of 52 real or virtual cards, dealt randomly. A live dealer doesn't have to chose 1 of billions of possible decks, nor does a computer. They both shuffle a set of 52 cards and then deal them out.
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    No you're rigging the decks for action.  If you had all the possible combos of cards a random shuffle would give you on a computer, and randomly picked a number between 1 and a bazillion. Say u randomly picked 157,467,468,564. Logged onto ur comp, and found 157,467,468,564 on your database of hands. It gave you AA v TJo, and a flop of 2 5 7 A J. You went back to your deck of cards, and fixed the deck so that the cards came out in that order.  That would be fine. Although the deck of cards is pre determined, it was picked at random from a gigantic sample of possible combos of hands, which covered every single possibility. Do this 499 more times and u have 500 pre-determined, random hands.  Obviously when this is done by your goodself, rather than a computer, you will know what hands  were randomly chosen in advance, so it wouldn't work, but if u got a machine to do it, it wud be fair. And easier ;) ----------------------- The key tho is the pool/database of billions of pre determined hands that u chose from at random.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Haha lolz then its just a shame we keep gettin the same action hands then , i reckon sky must have a quadzillion hands we are all yet to see lolz xx
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : "Billions of decks"? Both live and online deal with one pack of 52 real or virtual cards, dealt randomly. A live dealer doesn't have to chose 1 of billions of possible decks, nor does a computer. They both shuffle a set of 52 cards and then deal them out.
    Posted by NoseyBonk
    Cant believe ure missin the main point xx

    PS tbh i dont give a poo poo if im right or wrong i still luv the players here the site and all of its little quirks BUT i know for a fact its a way way long way from playin live xxx
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  • NoseyBonkNoseyBonk
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : Cant believe ure missin the nain point xx
    Posted by debdobs_67
    I guess I am :-/
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : I guess I am :-/
    Posted by NoseyBonk
    Thing is i dont think you are actually xxx
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  • NoseyBonkNoseyBonk
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:
    In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : Thing is i dont think you are actually xxx
    Posted by debdobs_67
    Not another conspiracy?! haha ;-)

    Honestly, I guess I am missing your point!
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  • baggsbaggs
    edited August 2011
    I cant actually believe people believe the RNG is random
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