WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............

loonytoons

obviously this would happen

https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum%3adf77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion%3af455a097-41c5-465c-a420-a5de1a8f4d8c

yb

Debs I think you're missing the point when people say the decks are pre-determined. It isn't like sky have the 200 most action-packed combination of cards saved away in their system and then choose one each time.

The computer automatically shuffles the deck at the start of each hand (and so each different card is assigned a place in the deck between card 1 and card 52) and then the hand is played out. That's what people mean when they say pre-determined, i.e. unlike with some of the other poker networks the deck is not continually shuffled as the hand is played out. However, both shuffling systems ensure that each and every possible combination of the 52 cards is equally as likely. It's just that this way reflects the way a deck is shuffled live.

yb

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : I would object, u wud need like billions of gazillions of pre determined hands to make them fair, like every possible conbo of cards pre loaded in a deck. U wudnt be able to fit that many decks in your house. Use the dice analogy, as using numbers this big is ridicculous, the possibilites are endless.... If we're playing monopoly and u say "instead of using a dice, lets pick a number between 1 and 12 out of a hat instead" - but you have already put the numbers in the hat before I got there, and instead of 1 - 12, u have put 6 6's and 4 12's, as well as 1 of every other number, then u have pre determined the possible outcomes wrongly, rather than fairly.  U've rigged it so that a certain number is rolled more often than the other numbers! If you put 1 of each number on a bit of paper in a hat, then pick 1 out randomly, it's still fair.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

You do realise that you are supposed to roll certain numbers more often than others if you're playing with 2 fair dice though right?

debdobs_67

YB the deck is NOT continually shuffled as the hand is played out on this site , did you NOT know this ??

Anyway as ive said already i aint bovvered 1 way or another as a pile of poo could hit any player at any time i just dont get it when players cannot see all the action , i mean i aint blind so neither should any1 else be , gl at the tables xx

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:

YB the deck is NOT continually shuffled as the hand is played out on this site , did you NOT know this ?? Anyway as ive said already i aint bovvered 1 way or another as a pile of poo could hit any player at any time i just dont get it when players cannot see all the action , i mean i aint blind so neither should any1 else be , gl at the tables xx
Posted by debdobs_67

He has acknowledged this in his post.

What he's saying is that as long as they r shuffled once at the start of the hand, they don't need to be shuffled again. 

baggs

Its irrelevant how many times they are shuffled if the shuffle isnt random (Note: Not rigged, just not random)

DAVEYZZ

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : Cant believe ure missin the main point xx PS tbh i dont give a poo poo if im right or wrong i still luv the players here the site and all of its little quirks BUT i know for a fact its a way way long way from playin live xxx
Posted by debdobs_67

its gone off on an is it rigged or not tangent again.....

you say its rigged for action.........but would there be any difference to rake if it was'nt(the main point)

if there was no action hands...people would soon generate them....even if it is only ace rag v ace rag.....evereybody who plays wants action,some just dont have the patience to wait for it ....gl,dave xx

DAVEYZZ

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:

Its irrelevant how many times they are shuffled if the shuffle isnt random (Note: Not rigged, just not random)
Posted by baggs

if i put a real deck of cards into a card suffler thingy is that random..?

loonytoons

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : its gone off on an is it rigged or not tangent again..... you say its rigged for action.........but would there be any difference to rake if it was'nt(the main point) if there was no action hands...people would soon generate them....even if it is only ace rag v ace rag.....evereybody who plays wants action,some just dont have the patience to wait for it ....gl,dave xx
Posted by DAVEYZZ

I believe Elsadog wrote about this once before, i believe one of the points sky must put in place to placate the AGC is 'fairness to all' He could explain this more but i think it basically means give all the poor players a chance, this could easily be achieved by creating 'action hands' and bad beats on the better players to allow 'fairness to all'

unknown_username

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : its gone off on an is it rigged or not tangent again..... you say its rigged for action.........but would there be any difference to rake if it was'nt(the main point) if there was no action hands...people would soon generate them....even if it is only ace rag v ace rag.....evereybody who plays wants action,some just dont have the patience to wait for it ....gl,dave xx
Posted by DAVEYZZ

The theory of rigging in it's latest form is as follows.

With the vast numbers playing online poker there is a vast skill difference between the best and the worst. The majority of players fall somewhere in the middle. The vast majority will never show a sustained profit therefore the money in circulation, minus the rake, will eventually end up at the top of the skill spectrum. If the skill differential was artificially reduced or smoothed out then the result would be that the money in circulation would still end up at the top of the skill spectrum but the rake would be significantly increased.

To put it in simple terms: If it takes a skilled player (say) 300 hands to win a $100 bankroll from a low skilled player then by assisting the lesser skilled player it would take (say) 600 hands. The higher skilled player would still win eventually, and the low skilled player would still lose, but the rake would be doubled.  The added advantage to this scenario is that the low skilled player is far more likely to re-deposit under these conditions.

DAVEYZZ

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : The theory of rigging in it's latest form is as follows. With the vast numbers playing online poker there is a vast skill difference between the best and the worst. The majority of players fall somewhere in the middle. The vast majority will never show a sustained profit therefore the money in circulation, minus the rake, will eventually end up at the top of the skill spectrum. If the skill differential was artificially reduced or smoothed out then the result would be that the money in circulation would still end up at the top of the skill spectrum but the rake would be significantly increased. To put it in simple terms: If it takes a skilled player (say) 300 hands to win a $100 bankroll from a low skilled player then by assisting the lesser skilled player it would take (say) 600 hands. The higher skilled player would still win eventually, and the low skilled player would still lose, but the rake would be doubled.  The added advantage to this scenario is that the low skilled player is far more likely to re-deposit under these conditions.
Posted by elsadog

This makes alot of sense....to a believer of rigged action and i can totally see what you mean but..........

lets pretend that i am a bad cash player(hard i know,"cough")
that means everytime i pull a table up the site decide's to let me win a bit
suckout on big pots then eventually lose it all so i reload.

Did sky/any poker site really think to themselves"lets start a poker business and get someone to programme the software so looser wins for a while and then loses it all to someone else"?

also how would i be defined as a losing player if the rng"let me win"
when i next log on surely i would be classed as a winning player?

or is that when i start getting my bad beats against "losing" players?

gl,dave

unknown_username

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : This makes alot of sense....to a believer of rigged action and i can totally see what you mean but.......... lets pretend that i am a bad cash player(hard i know,"cough") that means everytime i pull a table up the site decide's to let me win a bit suckout on big pots then eventually lose it all so i reload. Did sky/any poker site really think to themselves"lets start a poker business and get someone to programme the software so looser wins for a while and then loses it all to someone else"? also how would i be defined as a losing player if the rng"let me win" when i next log on surely i would be classed as a winning player? or is that when i start getting my bad beats against "losing" players? gl,dave
Posted by DAVEYZZ

Nasty cough you have there.

This is all conjecture and theory. The software, under this scenario, wouldn't differentiate between players. The major differences between a skilled player and an unskilled player are the abilty to get off a hand, lose cheaply and maximise winning hands. The skilled player will always prevail it will just take longer.

SighKO

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : This makes alot of sense....to a believer of rigged action and i can totally see what you mean but.......... lets pretend that i am a bad cash player(hard i know,"cough") that means everytime i pull a table up the site decide's to let me win a bit suckout on big pots then eventually lose it all so i reload. Did sky/any poker site really think to themselves"lets start a poker business and get someone to programme the software so looser wins for a while and then loses it all to someone else"? also how would i be defined as a losing player if the rng"let me win" when i next log on surely i would be classed as a winning player? or is that when i start getting my bad beats against "losing" players? gl,dave
Posted by DAVEYZZ

Thats really not difficult, even for those with little imagination

grantorino

obv if sites rig action hands it would generate more rake per hand. The question is does it really keep players longer (probably imo), if it does then I have no doubt someone could programme an rng that would do this. Would it pass the tests they have in place? No idea.

However a lot of hands posted here as "action hands" are not really imo. Many of them involve hands that would often be folded before showdown (even by fish) so I'm not so sure they could be rigged the way some of the ones posted here claim to be. Running overpairs, sets, 2pr, big draws into each other would seem a more likely way to do it, rather than relying on fish to call pre with 95s, flop a draw and runner runner 2 pair

DAVEYZZ

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF..............:

In Response to Re: WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF.............. : Thats really not difficult, even for those with little imagination
Posted by SighKO

ouch!