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Cash help needed pleasssse

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  • percival09percival09
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse:
      IMO 22% is way too tight at NL4. The main problem that a lot of NL4 players have is the fact that thay do not have a raise button therefore an experienced player can use this to his advantage and see a lot of flops cheaply. Therefore , knowing the lack of experience at the table, a decent player can pick up some big pots.   Someone on here started  athread a while ago about calling with any 2 at this level because it is so easy to get paid when you hit, but cheap to get away when you dont.
    Posted by pomfrittes
    Yes, the majority of players at 4NL are fish, therefore they call you down with anything ... so i don't see how playing more hands is or can be profitable, for you to say 22% is way too tight baffles me, so you're saying playing 3 hands an orbit would be good? at no level would that be profitable, never mind one where it's definitely best to play tight imo ! the bit i highlighted is worrying, to me that's the mentality of a fish (i'm not calling you a fish btw lol).. calling w/ any2 is incredibly spewy and you will definitely lose money, you hit 1/3 times and even when you hit you're unlikely to be good playing any 2 

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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse:
      IMO 22% is way too tight at NL4. The main problem that a lot of NL4 players have is the fact that thay do not have a raise button therefore an experienced player can use this to his advantage and see a lot of flops cheaply. Therefore , knowing the lack of experience at the table, a decent player can pick up some big pots.   Someone on here started  athread a while ago about calling with any 2 at this level because it is so easy to get paid when you hit, but cheap to get away when you dont.
    Posted by pomfrittes
    Yeah danny be doing this at NL4 just danny, really just danny ever do this.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited August 2011

    Some very strange theories, advice and opinions on this thread!!!!
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse:
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse : Why would you want to vary your pre flop raise size and give players a clue to what hands you've got? You raise the same amount every time so people don't know if you've got 67 or AA.  22% is a pretty tight range anyway, perfect for 2p 4p. Never vary your pre flop raise size, that's the worst thing you can do
    Posted by salazar
    Well a lot of the 4Nl players here advocate doing it, I wouldnt personally. But I dont think having an opening range that includes 67s and opening all of it for 6bb can be optimal, given how often you are likely to be called, villains are often short and you are not going to be able to bluff them off flop often. If you are going to use big raise sizing I think you need a tight opening range.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited August 2011
    The top 22% of starting hands are as below......

    66+,A3s+,K7s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,A8o+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo

    I think alot of the hands in that range are gonna be too weak to open, and deffo too weak to call with.

    I would argue that something like this, is gonna be more apropriate...

    22+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KJo+,QJo

    That's about 15% ............

    22% is far far too loose, unless you're playing below your your level/or you're only 1 tabling.
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  • debdobs_67debdobs_67
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse:
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse : Why would you want to vary your pre flop raise size and give players a clue to what hands you've got? You raise the same amount every time so people don't know if you've got 67 or AA.  22% is a pretty tight range anyway, perfect for 2p 4p. Never vary your pre flop raise size, that's the worst thing you can do
    Posted by salazar
    Gotta agree with ya here mate pretty much same strategy works for me well enough xx
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited August 2011
    Are they from pokerstove doh? Who thinks K7s is a better hand to play than 44?

    I think that range you advocate is prob about right for opening, can prob add in some weaker As at 4nl. Think you can prob limp along in multiway pots with some weaker hands depending on table conditions. As you move up the levels you would prob take out some weaker broadways, As and add in some small scs. Also VPIP doesnt include hands seen for free in BB which would prob be a significant number at 4Nl here (Not sure what stats op is using)

    In general though the more skilled you are the more hands you can open, as the wider you open the tougher postflop is. As this thread is from a guy who it pretty much beginning he should prob open tight, something like 22+,AT+, KJ+ and maybe add in suited broadways from btn. Once he gets more confident he can widen his range  
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited August 2011
    Yeh they r from PS, I just typed in 22%, but looking back how is A3 stronger than 55??

    I did the 2nd lot myself, that's what I'd be opening.

    I think the number of tables you play should make a massive difference to how you play at nl4 though, I don't think people give enough consideration to that.
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  • chaperchaper
    edited August 2011
    Great advice gave me a lot to think about.

    One point I picked up from DOH about muti-tabling. If you are multi-tabling you would have less chance of playing bad cards. My reasons for this are 1-you have not reads on players.
                                      2-you do not get bored.
     Does this make sense.
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  • MacacanMacacan
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse:
    Great advice gave me a lot to think about. One point I picked up from DOH about muti-tabling. If you are multi-tabling you would have less chance of playing bad cards. My reasons for this are 1-you have not reads on players.                                   2-you do not get bored.  Does this make sense.
    Posted by chaper
    Loads of excellent advice, already posted. I would just play tight, close down you opening range and play mostly in position. Don't get drawn in to hands with mediocre holdings just because it's cheap. Don't be fooled in to thinking it's only 4p, i'll see the flop!! It will end up costing you a lot more.

    Apart from getting board playing 1 or 2 tables, this is why you should be multi-tabling..

    Good luck

    Mac



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  • percival09percival09
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse:
    Great advice gave me a lot to think about. One point I picked up from DOH about muti-tabling. If you are multi-tabling you would have less chance of playing bad cards. My reasons for this are 1-you have not reads on players.                                   2-you do not get bored.  Does this make sense.
    Posted by chaper
    I'd say so, it gives you more discipline and often if only playing one table you can get a bit spewy! but it can also have an adverse effect, playing more tables than you can handle could make you not play hands properly, you may mis-click (done it many a time), or time out, so i'd say do 2 tables, and slowly move up, don't just jump straight to 6 tables for example 
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  • chaperchaper
    edited August 2011
    I would only play 2 at the start anyway, but thanks again for lthe help, just have to put it in practise.

    THANKS AGAIN
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  • MacacanMacacan
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse:
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse : I'd say so, it gives you more discipline and often if only playing one table you can get a bit spewy! but it can also have an adverse effect, playing more tables than you can handle could make you not play hands properly, you may mis-click (done it many a time), or time out, so i'd say do 2 tables, and slowly move up, don't just jump straight to 6 tables for example 
    Posted by percival09
    +1
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  • rancidrancid
    edited August 2011
    start winning first at the level your playing then mutli table :) if your loosing then your only going to loose more
    get your game sorted first

    2/4p - raise pre big 4x-6x bb's
    100% bet, bet , bet your hands -

    don't bluff - the bad players are not good enough to fold



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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse:
    start winning first at the level your playing then mutli table :) if your loosing then your only going to loose more get your game sorted first 2/4p - raise pre big 4x-6x bb's 100% bet, bet , bet your hands - don't bluff - the bad players are not good enough to fold
    Posted by rancid
    LOSE !!!
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse:
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse : LOSE !!!
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Lol *thumbs up* A fellow grammar/spelling nazi
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  • rancidrancid
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse:
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse : LOSE !!!
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    Like being at school again :D
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited August 2011
    good luck chaper,u,ll need it....i,ve been playing 2p/4p for just over a year and i,m still trying to work it out.i started playing 1 table then 2 then 4 then 6 which i found quite comfortable after a little while,got up to 8 then 10 even 11.i was breaking even through playing and receiving £100 cash for points each month.the only downside to this was i was doing nothing else but playing poker...playing 4 6 8 hour sessions at a time.min 125 hours a month.for what?.....£1 per hour.i guess what i,m trying to say is that it,s very easy to go :chasing the money: if you,re not carefull.i,m now back playing just the 1 table again just about breaking even and still loving it just as much now as all those 100,s of hours ago when i first started......hope you have as much fun playing and trying to solve the problem,as i have.i,m sure that we will meet up sometime in the not too distant future.....good luck
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse:
    good luck chaper,u,ll need it....i,ve been playing 2p/4p for just over a year and i,m still trying to work it out.i started playing 1 table then 2 then 4 then 6 which i found quite comfortable after a little while,got up to 8 then 10 even 11.i was breaking even through playing and receiving £100 cash for points each month.the only downside to this was i was doing nothing else but playing poker...playing 4 6 8 hour sessions at a time.min 125 hours a month.for what?.....£1 per hour.i guess what i,m trying to say is that it,s very easy to go :chasing the money: if you,re not carefull.i,m now back playing just the 1 table again just about breaking even and still loving it just as much now as all those 100,s of hours ago when i first started......hope you have as much fun playing and trying to solve the problem,as i have.i,m sure that we will meet up sometime in the not too distant future.....good luck
    Posted by devonfish5
    1. How does multitabling affect the number of hours you play? You can play 10-11 tables if you want and still play just as many hours as you do at 1 table.

    2. If you're only breaking even aafter 1 year of 2p/4p, I wouldn't be playing 10-11 tables, learn how to beat it first! 2p/4p is pretty easy to beat, even if you're not making huge profits, it's very easy to win 1-2 buy-ins (£4-£8) from say a 2-3 hour session on 1 table.

    3. Multitabling isn't going to make you win more or less (per table), it's just going to multiply your win rate so if you're breaking even, you'll be breaking even if you play a million tables so why bother. WHY MULTITABLE IF YOU'RE NOT WINNING??
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse:
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse : 1. How does multitabling affect the number of hours you play? You can play 10-11 tables if you want and still play just as many hours as you do at 1 table. 2. If you're only breaking even aafter 1 year of 2p/4p, I wouldn't be playing 10-11 tables, learn how to beat it first! 2p/4p is pretty easy to beat, even if you're not making huge profits, it's very easy to win 1-2 buy-ins (£4-£8) from say a 2-3 hour session on 1 table. 3. Multitabling isn't going to make you win more or less (per table), it's just going to multiply your win rate so if you're breaking even, you'll be breaking even if you play a million tables so why bother. WHY MULTITABLE IF YOU'RE NOT WINNING??
    Posted by Lambert180
    Multitabling generally makes you less per table, but more overall. The reason you would do it if breaking even is for bonuses
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse:
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse : Multitabling generally makes you less per table, but more overall. The reason you would do it if breaking even is for bonuses
    Posted by grantorino
    I can understand that partly if you're a winning player. If you are breaking even at 1 table, then go to 2 and break even, tthen 4 and break even and so on, surely you should stop increasing the number of tables and improve your game.

    Yeah you're going to get cash for points but as he observed, he's getting £100 for 125+ hours. The bonuses should be exactly that, bonuses. I don't think you can use that as an income/way of increasing BR.

    Don't you think you need to be questioning your game if after 1 year of 2p/4p you are only breaking even?
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse:
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse : I can understand that partly if you're a winning player. If you are breaking even at 1 table, then go to 2 and break even, tthen 4 and break even and so on, surely you should stop increasing the number of tables and improve your game. Yeah you're going to get cash for points but as he observed, he's getting £100 for 125+ hours. The bonuses should be exactly that, bonuses. I don't think you can use that as an income/way of increasing BR. Don't you think you need to be questioning your game if after 1 year of 2p/4p you are only breaking even?
    Posted by Lambert180
    I agree with most of what you said, was just making an observation. There are certainly players who are basically breakeven and make good money off rakeback etc though by playing big volume. Playing less tables would improve his poker, mightnt make him more money short term, it should long term
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited August 2011
    hi lambert180,just read your post.re me breaking even-that,s from my play,adding in cash 4 points bonuses i,m £350 up,hence my reason playing 10 tables.you,ve also said it,s very easy to win £4-£8 playing 1 table,well it might be 4 u,but obviously not 4 me.as i think 90% of all players lose or like myself break even,i think they might also agree it,s not that simple.i have taken on board about....don,t you think youneed to be questioning your game if after 1 year of 2p/4p you are only breaking even?....yes,you are right,obviously i do.in fact i have made some changes during my last 2 sessions,playing 2 tables raising up 4x and 5x pre-flop instead of 2x and 3x has made a big diference,...i,ve won £4.00 and £2.57 respectively.so i am listening and trying.i thank you and grantorino for your advice.oh and you rancid re advice on pre-flop raising.don,t worry-i,ll keep on working at it,i very rairly give up at anything so i don,t think i,ll be going too far away when there,s real money to be won....do you?
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  • AcidMan27AcidMan27
    edited August 2011
    DOHHHHH started a thread a while back with some excellent NL4 advice. I've tried to find it again a couple of times and had no joy.

    Maybe a mod or DOHHHHHHH could find it easier.
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  • CodexCodex
    edited August 2011
    i've never played 4nl and im kinda curious

    given people call with anything, how can you put people on ranges and so how can you ever be confident you have the best hand without having the nuts or near nuts - which isn't that often


    in a weird way, top players play a very wide range of cards to make it impossible to put them on a hand - this is replicated at 4nl?

    it seems like you would never ever bluff at 4nl?, but then it just comes to catching cards?
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  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Cash help needed pleasssse:
    i've never played 4nl and im kinda curious given people call with anything, how can you put people on ranges and so how can you ever be confident you have the best hand without having the nuts or near nuts - which isn't that often in a weird way, top players play a very wide range of cards to make it impossible to put them on a hand - this is replicated at 4nl? it seems like you would never ever bluff at 4nl?, but then it just comes to catching cards?
    Posted by Codex
    No you can bluff, usually a half pot cbet is ok when in the right situation, IP against one opponant etc. Only thing that is spew is when you start 2x/3x barreling someone who ain't gonna fold turns/rivers if they have a pair on flop.

    The way you win money is when you hit good hand simply bet BIG as they'll pay you off with anything most times.
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