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POKER TRACKER TYP SOFTWARE
Is there any way Sky could come up with something that can trak the type of info we are able to get through poker tracker (and other poker records software available to buy) as the generic versions do not work with skys software? Im sure sky can access all the info required and could even run it as a subscription only service or something to vreate additional revenue stream??? what do people think??
Comments
it dont track cash games do.
Sorry to go on about this, but tracking software means there also can be playing software.
I would hate the thought of a program giving opponents 'advice' on how to play.
Sky is void of this practice at the moment. I would prefer my poker on a level playing field. Wouldn't you?
Also, Poker Tracker has NOTHING to do with automated playing - it works on the hand history and tournament information that is written to the client's pc during a tournament or cash game. It allows players to analyse their opponents (and their own) play after the game has been imported into the Poker Tracker database. It is a very useful tool and it is a big failing of SkyPoker that this is not yet available.
Granted, that does not say they don't or can't exist. I am just of the assumption that if the techology is available for game tracking software then also the site is equally open for 'advising' software.
I base this assumption that game tracking software attaches itself to your game and records all of your hands. The obvious next step is a program attaching itself to your game and instantly giving you the odds and advice on how to play based on monitoring other peoples play.
I am not against Sky improving their own sysyem to incorporate tracking tools. Perhaps I am old school and fear that new technology presents new dangers, especially from third party sources!
If I had the inclination, I'm sure that I could create software that would automatically play hands for me.
I choose not to because I play poker for enjoyment and because I'm sure that SkyPoker has rules against anyone using this type of software. The availability of a useful hand history has no bearing on the difficulty (or morality) of this.
As stated above, the information required for Poker Tracker (and other equivalent tools) is a hand history (and tournament summary) that would be written by SkyPoker at game time. Ideally this hand history would be in a format that is already used by other sites and hence would be available immediately to be imported into PT. As stated by another poster, SkyPoker already provides this information in another format (i.e. in the hand history option on the website) so it is just a matter of the format and location (i.e. on the clients's PC) of this information.
I'm not privy to SkyPoker's development plans but I would guess that a hand history in this format might be incorporated in the same development that creates the downloadable client (that's how I would do it, anyway :-) ).
Yes, as I stated, I have no problems with Sky creating such a package, and yes, probably this will be implemented as part of the downloadable site when this rolls out.
It is the fear of third party developers creating attachments to the site that I am most concerned about. Something Sky, to date, has been void of.
Now true, this may be because a web based service makes it difficult to create the necessary bots or it may just be that the footfall on Sky makes this unprofitible due to lack of sufficent interest in such a product.
Until the downloadable edition is rolled out, we will not be able to tell.
I sincerely hope they do not start to invade here.
Even thought bots are "just not cricket" are they really that popular and big a problem? I see lots in the conspiracy theorist forums about bots but the biggest players in the world still play nose bleed stakes on the sites they are meant to be opperating on. And lets face it, there are not many high stakes players on Sky, even the £2.50 - £5 stakes here hardly compares to the $200 - $400 stakes elsewhere so would it be worth any ones while to try "Botting" 0.25p - 0.50p stakes on sky?
Yes, personally I do think it a big issue.
Some of the larger U.S. sites have a huge number of players either using 'bots' or poker calculators. Some estimates have been put at up to 40% of it's users operate these devices.
Now I know that is just pure internet speculation and the figure could be pure guesswork, and the games I play (DYM'S) would not be affected by an automated bot left running overnight. However tools like 'poker calculator pro' can operate by giving the user advice on the best plays in sit'n'go's. It monitors your opponents and give you decisions based on there plays and previous hands.
I have in fact used this for a trial period after it was offered free to me upon signing with Party Poker. Hated it, it was too slow and you had to reset it every hand. I also personally think it didn't help me in anyway and it had no clue as to heads up play.
However, I feel some people will use it to try and create an edge, especially if their own game is not up to standard.
When a new game starts the calculator automatically starts and attaches itself to your game. However, when you play poker at Party in your web browser,(which you can now at Party) the tool does not work as it does not detect that you have a game loaded. This is why I am under the assumption that it only works on download editions of sites.
So, basically, you have no ethical qualms about using this type of software yourself - it's just a matter of cost and ease of use?
Also, as stated before, just because one particular tool didn't work with a web browser based game is no indication that other tools don't.
I tried it as a freebie, mainly to see if this stuff actually worked. I wasn't impressed with it's performance nor it's capabilities. However, that isn't to say that others might find this type of tool useful. Within 48 hours of this program being downloaded to my laptop, it was swiftly deleted.
Yes, by admitting openly on this forum that I have tried this type of software, I found slightly embarrassing but posted the previous comment having had first hand experience of such tools.
Also, yes granted, my computer capabilities are quite limited, and as such, I do not understand how these programs truely work and how some devices only work in a download version and not in the web browser version. To this end, I have drawn (perhaps incorrectly) that these tools work at their best when the sites 'code' is made available for other programmers to exploit.
Again, (with my limited knowledge) I assume that this 'code' is easier to exploit on a download version. It just may be that with the small client base here that it is not worth the trouble and effort for companies to provide such materials as the market would be too limited.
Either way, I still love my poker untarnished, so to speak, and I truely hope others who play here feel the same. If not, my days playing poker here, or at any site where these programs are prevalent, are truely numbered.
If you know of programs available for this site, (I certainly don't) please let me know.
I am not interested at all in the name of the program, nor where it can be purchased from but I do have a need to know whether I am playing against a mind or a machine.
Hate to rant on about this Merenovice, and I genuinely do have a lot of respect for you and your game, (I have played with you many, many times now) and your comments are very much appreciated. Your mathematical and computer knowledge way outstrips mine and if anyone can put me on the right track regarding this issue, I have no doubts whatsoever it is you.
See you next time at the tables mate, and without doubt, when you do see me there, you can be assured that the only thing helping me on my game is my own brain.
P.S. I do genuinly like the idea of full game histories as it would show me directly shortfalls in my own game and give me opportunity to improve. I feel my own game is severely let down on plays in the small blind and also the cash bubble. The vast majority of games where I don't cash I tend to finish fourth but a more accurate record of this would no doubt improve my overall ROI.
However, I would prefer this to be available from Sky, even as a paid option. I still do not like the idea of a third party company giving me this information. If they can tell me this, then what else can they tell me or other players about my game????
I'll try to cover your points as clearly as I can.
1. Yes, "proper" hand histories would be a great improvement in SkyPoker which is all that the original poster was requesting. Tools like PT are very useful aids to improving ones own game - they provide analysis of hands played in many different formats and allow players to identify "leaks" and offer various other facilities.
2. The provision of hand histories in no way influences the likelihood that automated playing or "in stream" advice/analysis tools will be available. I'm sorry that I have re-iterated this strongly several times but it is VERY important. The levels of paranoia among players on this site is already extremely high and any misleading statements that increase this paranoia have to be corrected before it escalates out of control.
3. I'm pretty sure that technically there is very little difference between automated playing tools for downloaded clients or web-based games.
4. I'm not aware of any automated playing tools currenly available for SkyPoker. I haven't really looked into it because they don't interest me.
I too look forward to playing you in the future (and personally I don't care how many bots I play against although their conversation skills are a tad lacking).
It's just that there will always be someone who wants to exloit situations for a quick buck and by having attachments to games will ultimately bring some unscroupilous person to the front and create unfair tools.
If everyone was honest then tools similar to that referred to above would never have been created and I do genuinely feel that sites that do suffer this problem are not happy about it but are virtually powerless to stop them. Yes, I have read that if caught using automated bots will result in a ban from the site but no site I have seen states that these 'advisors' are against the rules.
Like I say, I was offered one for free for signing to a site. If that doesn't create mixed signals I don't know what does.
Sky has a perfectly adequate odds calculator directly linked to the game if people have the real need to know odds on a particular hand.
What really riles me about this sort of software is that it can track your opponents style and give advice based on this.
Now I know I can easily see the person raising every hand regardless so as such a machine telling me to reraise him is pretty useless but other more subtle styles can be difficult to spot.
My biggest gripe is that people WILL use it, should it become available. (again this may be a small minority who feel the need) I feel that the majority would still have the morals to keep clear. And, as such, they TRY to create an unfair advantage.
They do take the fun out of the game but for some winning is more important than taking part.
You may feel they were created as a learning tool but I feel the more widespread use is for something else.
Remeber viagra? This was also originally created to help heart conditions, however it's widespread useage now is for an entirely different reason.
Have I just compared poker to Viagra?
Well both can keep me up for hours, so I suppose it's a fair enough comparison!