NL4 for beginners

harding10

Been around for a while now without trying cash, and am going to give it a try, so some really basic questions.
 
1) Without notes on players is there anything I should be looking for regarding table selection?

2) Does the 'average pot size' figure have any relevance in table selection?

3) Buying in for maximum, at what point should I top up?

percival09

if you're completely readless just join any table and make notes as you play - you could search for whether they are multi-tabling which could tell you something, but that would generally be far too time consuming - i'd imagine most of the players at 4NL are fish so most tables will be ok

i wouldn't say so, there could be two hands in a row AA vs KK which would make the average pot big but it could be the tightest table in the world

i always auto top-up, but if you can't on sky, whenever you have a chance really, def don't let yourself get below  90BB imo

ZedsDeadBa

In Response to NL4 for beginners:

Been around for a while now without trying cash, and am going to give it a try, so some really basic questions.   1) Without notes on players is there anything I should be looking for regarding table selection? 2) Does the 'average pot size' figure have any relevance in table selection? 3) Buying in for maximum, at what point should I top up?
Posted by harding10

1.Simple... sit at an empty table with the minimum buy-in when all the seats are full of min buy-ins top up to the max ....and enjoy.

2.Keep topped up particularly if other big stacks at the table.

3.If you find yourself continually topping up, do a player search and take a seat at any table Im playing at!

GL.

Z.

unknown_username

You will come to recognise the regs as you start to play. Dont worry about table selection, theres always some dead money at the table.

Dont worry about the average pot, its a load of rubbish.

Basically, keep topped up unless you have the biggest stack on the table. Quite a few tables will have 5 players sat with less than a couple of quid. 90xBB is a decent rule to stick by. just whenever there is a lull in play.

Dudeskin8

1. Tables with full stacks, there are REGS if you see more than 1 to a table go elsewhere.

2. Always go to bigger average but it's not massive important.

3. I reload at any stage I'm below full stack, don't get into this rubbish about 'Oh it's ok if you go down to 80 bigs' you're gonna be really happy when you get AA all in pre wiv just 80 bigs against a full stack aren't ya !

Lambert180

1) As Percival said, most people at this level are fish so don't worry too much about table selection. You might want to keep an eye out for tables full of people with anything up to say £3 on the table. Generally people who don't buy-in for the full amount or don't top up are not experienced players

2) You can't pay too much heed to it.

3) Same as Percival, in money terms for 2p/4p. You're buying in for £4 and I wouldn't let yourself go below £3.60 ish

Lambert180

Also, just remember, people at this level are going to be playing with alot of junk hands, so tighten up your opening range and when you do play a hand, raise to at least 20p pre.

harding10

PLayed 2 tables for best part of 2 hours, wound up nearly half a buy-in down. Only biggish pot saw my QQ cracked aipf by a shorty with 99 who binked a straight, had that held I'd have been in profit for the night so reasonably happy with how I played.

Probably should have stood from 1 table when a couple of fresh players sat in for max buy-in and were obviously decent. Guess that's something to bear in mind coming from tourneys where you have to play who you're drawn against.

If I can do ok with cash it would suit my evenings much better given the hectic nature of our household and my work hours. Any interruptions don't give others the chance to steal your blinds and I can play to my own timescale.

Talon

 A nice little trick you can use at NL4 is on the first few hands is to allow pots to go to the end(as cheaply as possible) to give you an idea about the range of hands that people will limp in with.Paying off a couple of 12p or 16p river bets for information can be a very useful thing to do in the long run because once you can start to range the players it will be a lot easier to take money off them.

  The other key is to overbet a lot.If you flop a straight for example you will find people calling massive bets with just top pair. Also try to keep your bluffing to a minimum unless you have identified a player that can be pushed off a hand because as i said before people will call very light

debdobs_67

Gl harding mate hope ya have success at cash

(1) It wont take very long at all to identify the 'playin with any 2 cards brigade' and a decent 'reg'

(2) Dont pay any attention to this just try to find tables where all are at 100bb's ish

(3) As all have agreed keep to 100bb's asap as you can lose alot of value if ya dont

Oh and for a bit extra

(4) Nearly always BET if ya flop a monster and bet BIG

YOUNG_GUN

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners:

 A nice little trick you can use at NL4 is on the first few hands is to allow pots to go to the end(as cheaply as possible) to give you an idea about the range of hands that people will limp in with.Paying off a couple of 12p or 16p river bets for information can be a very useful thing to do in the long run because once you can start to range the players it will be a lot easier to take money off them.   The other key is to overbet a lot.If you flop a straight for example you will find people calling massive bets with just top pair. Also try to keep your bluffing to a minimum unless you have identified a player that can be pushed off a hand because as i said before people will call very light
Posted by Talon

Good advice colin espically bolded, great tool in nl4

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners:

 A nice little trick you can use at NL4 is on the first few hands is to allow pots to go to the end(as cheaply as possible) to give you an idea about the range of hands that people will limp in with.Paying off a couple of 12p or 16p river bets for information can be a very useful thing to do in the long run because once you can start to range the players it will be a lot easier to take money off them.   The other key is to overbet a lot.If you flop a straight for example you will find people calling massive bets with just top pair. Also try to keep your bluffing to a minimum unless you have identified a player that can be pushed off a hand because as i said before people will call very light
Posted by Talon

Not for me, there are SO many players at NL4 that even taking LOTS of notes everytime you sit down you play new players so doing this is just setting fire to money imo.

Play BIG hands raise BIG, when it flop bet BIG.

harding10

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners:

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners : Not for me, there are SO many players at NL4 that even taking LOTS of notes everytime you sit down you play new players so doing this is just setting fire to money imo. Play BIG hands raise BIG, when it flop bet BIG.
Posted by Dudeskin8

I have a printed copy of some of your advice & starting hands from elsewhere in the clinic next to my computer, so if this doesn't work out I'm holding you responsible. ;o)))

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners:

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners : I have a printed copy of some of your advice & starting hands from elsewhere in the clinic next to my computer, so if this doesn't work out I'm holding you responsible. ;o)))
Posted by harding10

LOLz, honestly if you play any range i've posted it WILL work, however it depends whether you can stick to it when the beats start to come which they will.

harding10

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners:

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners : LOLz, honestly if you play any range i've posted it WILL work, however it depends whether you can stick to it when the beats start to come which they will.
Posted by Dudeskin8

Been reading Don's ups and downs, and it will be interesting to see what happens to me when the beats come.

Playing mtt's and sng's bad beats don't tilt me but normally you're either out or badly dented, not needing to reload and keep playing, so will need to keep a level head.

Playing hands badly will tilt me, and twice already I've done this as I get close to the end of a previously winning session. Both times I've reloaded, watched a couple of hands and decided to stand. Got to remember villains will have a hand at times, and might need to take a break at shorter intervals than some until I get used to this. 

NColley

Take breaks in sessions of 5 minutes if you feel your losing concentration, I think you can sit out 3 orbits before you get auto stood and I've often found that I've come back in better focus.

harding10

Had a tidy enough first week.

Horrible night Friday when I lost 3 buy-ins, last one purely through tilt. Wasn't really in the right frame of mind when I started.

Finished 3 buy-ins up, which is more profit that I'd normally make playing stt's at my low volume.

More comfortable multi-tabling on cash than on stts. Will be trying more tables and volume for September.

Thanks for the advice so far, no doubt I'll be back for more.

harding10

Played a lot more hands than I've done before through the start of September, nearly doubled my highest monthly points in the first week. Quite comfortable 3 tabling now, if that keeps going well will try a fourth.

The extra volume showed up a leak in my flop betting oop which I've hopefully put right having read DOHHHHHHH's nl4 guide, now those hands I'm losing aren't costing me as much. Also have cut down on the plain stupid mistakes. 

AcidMan27

Nice one harding, keep at it.

I've been playing alot of NL4 again after a few leaks and weaknesses showed up in my game higher up.

Once you start playing more than three tables you'll be laughing as the varience should go down a touch if you've got a solid abc game at this level.

s6owls

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners:

Nice one harding, keep at it. I've been playing alot of NL4 again after a few leaks and weaknesses showed up in my game higher up. Once you start playing more than three tables you'll be laughing as the varience should go down a touch if you've got a solid abc game at this level.
Posted by AcidMan27

THANKS LAMBERT
Followed your advice and bet 20 PENCE whenever I entered a pot (limped a few blinds)
3 Tables for 45 mins and won 2 buy-ins (good for me)
Got a lot of calls but c bet got a lot of folds after flop
Twice folded AK POST FLOP after being re-raised
Still needed Luck on a £7 pot -called all-in with AQ ON A84 FLOP -opponent showed A4 and i turned a Q

After reading Forum for months I think best advice is DONT LIMP and post flop AK can be FOLDED 

harding10

Spoke too soon. Wasn't having a great session last night but was keeping losses fairly low, then made a very tilty move on a loose player who had the goods for a change. Seems to be that Friday night's aren't my best night to play.

walesboy

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners:

Spoke too soon. Wasn't having a great session last night but was keeping losses fairly low, then made a very tilty move on a loose player who had the goods for a change. Seems to be that Friday night's aren't my best night to play.
Posted by harding10

variance, I find, is higher on friday/saturday nights especially from about 10pm - drink possibly plays a part as people come back from the pub. as new players join it won't take you long to see what they are like and adjust. but they do seem to hit some nights alot!lol!

BLACK_MASS

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners:

Played a lot more hands than I've done before through the start of September, nearly doubled my highest monthly points in the first week. Quite comfortable 3 tabling now, if that keeps going well will try a fourth. The extra volume showed up a leak in my flop betting oop which I've hopefully put right having read DOHHHHHHH's nl4 guide, now those hands I'm losing aren't costing me as much. Also have cut down on the plain stupid mistakes. 
Posted by harding10

Cool man.

harding10

Awful run last night, starting to feel I'm turning into Don. )

Aces cracked twice aipf, AQ lost to KK when it all went in on a QQx flop and a K came on the river, and joy of joys JJ lost to 24os when it all went in on the flop and he 4 flushed me on the river  with the 2.

Down 5 BI's in 2 nights, feel a bit like a schoolkid who's been told to go back to the beginning and start again.

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners:

Awful run last night, starting to feel I'm turning into Don. ) Aces cracked twice aipf, AQ lost to KK when it all went in on a QQx flop and a K came on the river, and joy of joys JJ lost to 24os when it all went in on the flop and he 4 flushed me on the river  with the 2. Down 5 BI's in 2 nights, feel a bit like a schoolkid who's been told to go back to the beginning and start again.
Posted by harding10

Don't worry at all mate I had the same this month at NL10 down 7 BI's in the first week feeling awful but have now slowly ground back and almost back to where I was. You just have to keep playing and don't give up (unless you go broke lol).

s6owls

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners:

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners : Don't worry at all mate I had the same this month at NL10 down 7 BI's in the first week feeling awful but have now slowly ground back and almost back to where I was. You just have to keep playing and don't give up (unless you go broke lol).
Posted by Dudeskin8

just won £7 in 30 mins 3 tabling 4nl
same as last time enter pot for 20p or fold
occasional call in small blind and check in bb
 

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners:

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners : just won £7 in 30 mins 3 tabling 4nl same as last time enter pot for 20p or fold occasional call in small blind and check in bb  
Posted by s6owls

LOL that was basically my exact strategy at NL4 and probably still is at NL10 but with it being 30p open.

s6owls

Just lost £7.89 3 tabling
read on a post that better standard 9 am (after kids gone to school)-definitely found that to be the case this morning- more re-raising and not flat calling.
only one crying hand
aipf £2.50 with aces got beat by jj-was already £5 down-seems to happen when already losing session(or is it you just remember losses more than winnings )

harding10

Couple of good sessions Sun & Tues evenings and have made back up the 5BI loss of the weekend.

BLACK_MASS

In Response to Re: NL4 for beginners:

Couple of good sessions Sun & Tues evenings and have made back up the 5BI loss of the weekend.
Posted by harding10

Quality. If you keep a graph of your sessions over time it may prove helpful ?  It is good to have a positive overview. You can also annotate sections of it. Like sometimes you may experiment with different styles to the norm. Or remark on sections having +/- variance factors or number of tables played for example. Just a thought. I'm sure there are programs that do all this stuff for you but i'm a technophobe luddite type but still found a simple graph useful.
Good thread man.

harding10

I started September with £100 in my account, with the targets of getting up to £120, playing enough to get a whole £5 cash for points for the first time, and playing at least 2 DTD's in the month.

On Sunday 24th I was at £125, had played 2 DTD's, and was over the 500 points. I should have stopped there!!!

I've had an awful week, beat after beat after beat. KK aipf cracked by rag aces, running straights, 4 flushed & underpairs hitting sets. Set over set twice, out kicked on flopped trips and AQ on a QQ7 flop undone by someone who'd called a 20p raise pre with Q7 sooted.

Account currently at £101. Couple of buy ins up for the month on nl4 cancelling out a small loss on mtts. By the end of last nights session I was playing not to lose instead of playing to win, so I'm having a short break. (going to be short of playing opportunities next week anyway)

Feels a bit as though the stts I've played up until now have been practice and the real stuff starts here.
The account balance swings in cash take a bit of getting used to although until this last dip the trend has been upwards, and I still think I'll get there.