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Massive pot. Limped pre. Monotone flop and turn with set. Played correctly.

edited August 2011 in The Poker Clinic
Noteless aswell.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
bobcam Small blind  £0.02 £0.02 £1.53
dmqueen17 Big blind  £0.04 £0.06 £1.48
 Your hole cards
  • 5
  • 5
   
The_Don90 Call  £0.04 £0.10 £5.49
flatweasel Call  £0.04 £0.14 £1.42
MADDOG698 Fold     
mickydc131 Call  £0.04 £0.18 £4.87
bobcam Call  £0.02 £0.20 £1.51
dmqueen17 Check     
Flop
  
  • 3
  • J
  • 5
   
bobcam Bet  £0.04 £0.24 £1.47
dmqueen17 Fold     
The_Don90 Raise  £0.32 £0.56 £5.17
flatweasel Call  £0.32 £0.88 £1.10
mickydc131 Raise  £0.60 £1.48 £4.27
bobcam Call  £0.56 £2.04 £0.91
The_Don90 Call  £0.28 £2.32 £4.89
flatweasel Call  £0.28 £2.60 £0.82
Turn
  
  • 9
   
bobcam Check     
The_Don90 Check     
flatweasel All-in  £0.82 £3.42 £0.00
mickydc131 Call  £0.82 £4.24 £3.45
bobcam Call  £0.82 £5.06 £0.09
The_Don90 Call  £0.82 £5.88 £4.07
River
  
  • 9
   
bobcam All-in  £0.09 £5.97 £0.00
The_Don90 All-in  £4.07 £10.04 £0.00
mickydc131 All-in  £3.45 £13.49 £0.00
The_Don90 Unmatched bet  £0.62 £12.87 £0.62
bobcam Show
  • Q
  • 10
   
The_Don90 Show
  • 5
  • 5
   
flatweasel Show
  • J
  • A
   
mickydc131 Show
  • 8
  • 9
   
The_Don90 Win Full House, 5s and 9s £11.90  £12.52
«13

Comments

  • ybyb
    edited August 2011
    get it in on the flop imo
  • edited August 2011
    Raise pre 4x.

    Flop raise good, when micky then reraises you you should be jumpiing round the room screaming with joy, then a call of this raise but you just flat why ? This is a snap reraise for me and with pot at £2.04 when it gets to you best to shove, flat calling is bizzare.

    As played on turn facing all in and 2 calls you have to fold as you can only win with FH which not sure you have odds for it, basically you've made this SO much more complicated than it should be.
  • edited August 2011
    As soon as that flop comes its defo time to stack off , nh
  • edited August 2011
    i see the benefits of shoving on the flop yb, but what is calling you when you put £5 into a £2 pot. is this nl4 play or would you do this higher up?

  • edited August 2011
    I wouldn't raise this pre because the blinds are both playing under 40 big blinds.

    even though you are UTG there's only 1 100xbb stack behind you.

    Then yeh, easy stack off on the flop, dunno why you keep pot controlling these monster hands.
  • edited August 2011
    raise pre 3x - inflate pot
    wohooo hit set -

    as played shove flop
    gets very meesy on turn - i don't like it
    bob should have shoved turn and you fold, he had two chances to shove aswel :s
    You call on turn knowing your behind right :s 10 possible outs - 5/1 so yeah call is good

    all round bad hand ) bobcam and flat should have shoved :)(
    Classic example Don of how they play at NL4

    Them nines on the river are you favourite )
  • edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Massive pot. Limped pre. Monotone flop and turn with set. Played correctly.:
    i see the benefits of shoving on the flop yb, but what is calling you when you put £5 into a £2 pot. is this nl4 play or would you do this higher up?
    Posted by pod1
    If you shove at NL4, then your getting called by a wider range than higher up i guess.
    Anyone with a heart will be loving your shove, you want them to pay for it right ? So you may aswel get max value from an NL4 player who will be constantly making mistakes and not knowing odds etc.. or even why they are rasing or betting.

    I suppose the only question should be, what is mickey raising with ? I would guess AhJx, but as this hand shows you just can never give them too much credit, one heart loving flop ) He probably doesn't even know that he is bluffing with that raise.
    Look Pod - what does micky raise flop, call turn and stack river with - now you would NEVER ! get that higher up would you :D

    !!!!
  • edited August 2011
    good point, just looked at his play lol

  • edited August 2011
    i felt i was behind on flop and defo behind on turn but i also felt i was getting the right odds o go for that house?
  • edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Massive pot. Limped pre. Monotone flop and turn with set. Played correctly.:
    i felt i was behind on flop and defo behind on turn but i also felt i was getting the right odds o go for that house?
    Posted by The_Don90
    The only way you can EVER think this is if you're playing outside a proper bankroll, you think 'Jee whiz maybe he has got dem dere flush cards in his hand, Oh golly I'm gonna go lose lotta money', now if your rolled you think 'OMFG why haven't they got more behind, damn them for playing with short stacks and damn me for not having more behind !'
  • edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Massive pot. Limped pre. Monotone flop and turn with set. Played correctly.:
    In Response to Re: Massive pot. Limped pre. Monotone flop and turn with set. Played correctly. : The only way you can EVER think this is if you're playing outside a proper bankroll, you think 'Jee whiz maybe he has got dem dere flush cards in his hand, Oh golly I'm gonna go lose lotta money', now if your rolled you think 'OMFG why haven't they got more behind, damn them for playing with short stacks and damn me for not having more behind !'
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    +1
  • edited August 2011
    i agree to a point dude , but if you aint rolled for nl4 what are you rolled for?????
  • edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Massive pot. Limped pre. Monotone flop and turn with set. Played correctly.:
    i agree to a point dude , but if you aint rolled for nl4 what are you rolled for?????
    Posted by pod1
     
    If I wasn't rolled for NL4 I'd either save up enough till I was or get a surgeon to remove my brain then play DYM's until I was rolled, then get them to put my brain back in. :)
  • edited August 2011
    lol tbf i hated them not all being full stacked come the river. However considering the action i have to put one of these bad boys on a flush surley.
  • edited August 2011
    i cant put anyone on a flush off the flop don. i think its 100 and a bit to 1. if they got it fair play and move on, but i aint letting it affect my betting. +1 to the dym thing dude, how do people play them iwould rather snort my own vomit!

  • edited August 2011
    I dont see any point raising at NL4 with 5's.  Your still going to get multi way action regardless with no significant edge, to c/f a significant proportion of the time.

    Given the number of runners on flop I dont think I'm happy getting my stack in, given that you will be fading hearts through streets, disproportionately so.  You will have invested 0.36p on flop, but then will be racing <60/40.
    for stack, being 10x pot size.  Your pretty much guarenteed to get a call off flop at this level.

    Smooth call turn hoping to fill up is fine, jamming river is nice.
  • edited August 2011
    Given the number of runners on flop I dont think I'm happy getting my stack in, given that you will be fading hearts through streets, disproportionately so.  You will have invested 0.36p on flop, but then will be racing <60/40.
    for stack, being 10x pot size.  Your pretty much guarenteed to get a call off flop at this level. +1  like this

  • edited August 2011
    Interesting that no one has mentioned the only time your ahead here is on the river, being a 5way limped pot.  Deapite veryone advocating getting it in on the flop.

    If I'm sat in this spot live I'm hating it.  Your very likely to lose your stack here.
  • edited August 2011
    I personally like to limp wae small pairs a this level and hope 2 hit ma set .the flop im gettin it in here if they have the flush ul but u still have outs for the fh plus callin the re raise on the flop like u did gives u a hard decision if another heart comes the turn you defo know your behind now  so gettin on the flop makes it easier i think but nh in the end.
  • edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Massive pot. Limped pre. Monotone flop and turn with set. Played correctly.:
    Interesting that no one has mentioned the only time your ahead here is on the river, being a 5way limped pot.  Deapite veryone advocating getting it in on the flop. If I'm sat in this spot live I'm hating it.  Your very likely to lose your stack here.
    Posted by AMYBR
    Im actually glad youve stated these comments as your putting my thoughts done pretty well. Im hating this whole hand post flop.

    Pod you say you can put anyone on a flopped flush. As AMYBR says, its a 5 way limped pot. Any two random hearts are there and its 4-bet on the flop. Pretty good reasoning to think im behind.
  • edited August 2011

    Don you're never folding a set against 1.50 stacks, it's like 40 big blinds...

    The 1 player in the hand that concerns you is the guy with 100xbb....

    Of course it's possible you could be behind to this guy....

    But he has soooooooooooooo many possible hands in his range that you are ahead of.

    You have to play against all his possible hands, so stuff like pocket 3s, J5, J3, bare A/K/Q high flush draws, a pair and a flush draw, straigh and flush draw combos.

    You have all those hands crushed.

    And then there's hands that beat you, which are basically only flopped flushes, as he never shows top set here.

    Even if you hit the top of his range, ie, he has a flush, you're still around 36% to win the hand anyway.

    Look at the actions of the player who has 100xbb.

    He min donk leads, to see a raise, and a re raise behind him, and he only flat calls.

    He doesn't even have a flush here very often.

    Look at his whole range of hands rather than trying to soul read plonkers who could show up with anything.

    And never fold a flopped set v players sat with under half a buy in.
  • edited August 2011
    don, you dont have to worry about 1st bet after flop(all in), you are one of the other people betting, so theres only 2 people to worry about. refer back to odds on hitting a flush on the flop!!!!!
  • edited August 2011
    lol dohhhh posted while i was writting. much better put!!

  • edited August 2011
    But do we really want to get entangled in 5way limped pot here.  Yes there is only one significant stack that our focus should be on.

    Never been a big fan of the getting it all in and hope to fill up, especially when your playing for a pot that is so disproportionate to your stack.

    For the 100+ stack to get it in here he has to have a hand that has about 40% equity vs our low set.  Math is seriously wrong for me.  I'm not saying I fold the way the action plays, but I am going to tread carefully.

    My reasoning and lines tend to be geared towards one table live play where you are extracting and conserving with micro managment.  I guess if your multi-tabling the line can be different.  But I think your shoving and praying if your getting it in here.  Again, the math is bad.
  • edited August 2011
    to be fair amybr i am not saying to lump it all in on the flop, i think too risky on this board, what i am saying is i cant/wont put him on a flush just because its multiway and let it effect my betting. great believer in in smooth playing this .
  • edited August 2011

    I think you're supposed to look at all the possible hands he can have, and figure out what % equity our hand has against that range, to conclude if getting it in is gonna be profitable?

    I would make us a favourite against his range, so if we're ahead significantly more often than we are behind, how can the math not be right to make the call? - 

    This is before we add into the equation all the "dead money" from shortstackers, who's ranges are even weaker than the full stack.

    *edit - they will also almost certainly be holding some of the full stacks outs.
  • edited August 2011
    In Response to Re: Massive pot. Limped pre. Monotone flop and turn with set. Played correctly.:
    to be fair amybr i am not saying to lump it all in on the flop, i think too risky on this board, what i am saying is i cant/wont put him on a flush just because its multiway and let it effect my betting. great believer in in smooth playing this .
    Posted by pod1
    If you eliminate flushes from his range, that means we have the best hand 100% of the time.

    So why would you not want to get all the money in?
  • edited August 2011
    are we on about flop jj or river?

  • edited August 2011
    Flop.

    You aren't considering flushes, and we should assume he never limps with pocket Jacks, so we have the nuts, on a draw heavy board, facing multi way action...

    But you are reluctant to get it in? :S
  • edited August 2011
    if we are talking about the flop, then this is the big flaw i have in my game and the bit i just dont get. bear with me i have had  a few. why is it alright to lump it in here (when excluding flushes, which i had) coz im sure im 100% ahead and then someone (mentioning no names) gets absolutly slated when he shoves pre with aces?. when is building a pot, contolling it and not losing your oppenent worse than jamming it all in when your 100% ahead on a board like that for an example. slightly tipsy  phil

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