is there ever a time to fold kings pre!

BLACK_MASS

It was  Paul Jackson on one of the shows a few months back that said something along the lines of, " It's ok to fold K-K pre as long as you are good enough to put your opponent on aces. "
I think it was James Williams, the West Country assassin, that did it. There was a 3-way dynamic to that particular hand tho. I have done it a few times with people i have played a lot ( 10k + ) of hands with.
I agree with AMYBR in that sometimes you just know that the betting pattern suggests one thing only.

pod1

wow,wasnt expecting this. like i say i wasnt going to fold,didnt even cross my mind, but and its a big but, if the guy has never 4bet all the time on the table and remember this is only nl30 not nl100 when people may do this light. the question was SHOULD IT HAVE CROSSED MY MIND? it screamed aces . was i shocked when he should them definatly not. i was always taught (by an mtt player mind) always get your money in ahead, and with this betting pattern at this level i couldnt say i was. ps black mass i was good enough to put him on aces , just not good enough to threw them ks away lol

leon621

the one thing im not getting, alot of players are saying that you really cant be folding kings in a cash game. If we have good enough reads to put the villain on AA then surely you have to dont ya. After all 77 has a better chance of beating aces but only a donk would call a shove or shove over the top.

pod1

i think what people are trying to say leon is that a good cash player wont always 4 bet with aces, qq kk ak at this level are well in there range to do this with, so over time you will lose money by folding, and i assume the higher the level the wider range of 4 betting becomes (look at dohhhs hand in the clinic at nl100). what i was trying to say was being on a table with this player for an hr and never see him do this should you even contemplate it. hope this helps leon

grantorino

In Response to Re: is there ever a time to fold kings pre!:

In a tournament early yes or if your huge in chips! In cash you would need very specific reads, however every single player who have commented on this when the player comes back over the top you all know he is holding aces here .. come on admit it. Queens he shoves AK he folds calls or shoves only hand raisng is AA, But yet everyone calls
Posted by Batkin88

Really dont get how you know this. If he views pod as competent I dont see why he should 5bet small with any hand. I think maybe its more likely its AA, but he doesnt have to do it often with worse to make getting it in correct

debdobs_67

Great bit of 'verbal tennis' between Young_Gun and Dudeskin8 (thnx guys) right back to the hand imo at any level between nl4 and nl100 i dont reckon any player in a 2 way pot folds KK pre when only 100 bb's or so deep , and i mean nobody. i just dont see how you can polarise a players hand to be AA and nowt else , no matter what reads ya may or may not have on them.

PS pod mate ive had this on many occasions at diff levels and really put oppo on AA but ive still never ever folded my KK xx