Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4

DOHHHHHHH

Blimey what is it with people on this site, sooooo touchy. How old r u. 

Are you not allowed to disagree with someone without them kicking off and getting mardy on???

Chill out cocker.

debdobs_67

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush!:

Blimey what is it with people on this site, sooooo touchy. How old r u.  Are you not allowed to disagree with someone without them kicking off and getting mardy on??? Chill out cocker.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Well with that reply dohhh youve now got on my T**S

I am however only taking the P*SS

)

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush!:

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush! : Well with that reply dohhh youve now got on my T**S I am however only taking the P*SS )
Posted by debdobs_67

Result!

Bobsicool3

Interesting thread.
there is no right or wrong arguement here between dohh and daz.

cos the blinds are so small the terrible 9x raise is insignificant as he cud be calling with any ace, kq, qj suited or any pp(to set mine).

JAMMING on the flop is bad play because..we're risking our tournement life for 600 odd chips(w.e it is). i play low stakes and see this move all the time. 'urgh lets jam it in and hope' well im glad he hits diamond as this is poor play.
GOOD poker players bet for information here. if we bet 3/4 and he calls and a diamond does hit, we can get away and still have over 30bbs. if diamond misses we can jam turn..if he calls we can have the satisfaction of knowing we were huge favourites to win and oppo didnt have correct odds. By jamming on flop ur giving him 2 chances to hit his diamond as opposed to one on the turn. HUGE HUGE difference and 2 looks better than 1.

Mohican

Bobiscool you make some very valid points on how and why the hand should be played differently which runs pretty much to my way of thinking. But there is no escaping the fact, that as played, you want a call. The OP is complaining that when he sets the price to draw as his oppo's stack, they call and hit, depsite not getting the odds. Getting worse hands to call is a poker fundamental. You can guarantee that if he'd missed his draw, there wouldn't be a thread about it. Any time I can get all the chips in with a 30% edge over my opponent, I'm happy.

grantorino

I think doh and dazler are arguing different points here tbh, but w/e.

There are 2 reasons to bet for value or as a bluff. As bluffing that board with AA is completely nonsensical I assume people are valuebetting if they bet that board, whatever sizing they decide on. Therefore they want villain to continue, so betting then whinging about how bad villain is when you are called is redic

Dazler betting less because we know villain will call seems bad to me, we make money when villain makes mistakes so make him make as big a one as possible (esp as when villains are drawing we dont usually get paid on river when they miss). Im not going to get into sizing for this particular hand, personally I dont like heros sizing pre or on flop, but if he knows he gets called enough with worse its hard argue with it, although draws equity halves on turn as bobsicool points out

Also bosicool I dont know any good players, apart from perhaps yourself, who bet that board for info esp readless

Bobsicool3

You bet for information because there is 3 diamonds out...its a relatively scary board for aces. if we check and he bets were in a bad spot.
if we check and he checks behind were in the same spot and missed out on value.

so we bet.(.i dont know the villain or stakes so no reads) if he calls we know he has something..using maths in poker we have to assume he wud either call with top pair or a flush draw..as its unlikely he has flopped a flush. if the next card is the diamond we slow down and lose the minimum.

if we bet he re-raises us we can fold and move on.

so yes betting is the best option, i wud be betting for value/information.

Mohican i understand his moaning cos the flush draw hit. imo they have both played the hand incorrectly and it ended up being a russian roulette where unfortunately the op was beaten.

Dazler

this was a dym game and i lost this by betting the lot but i knew i was ahead for def unless they hit set but those odds im happy to take. As i said in earlier posting different ways to play it sometimes its the right move, but others would say this was the wrong move in a dym. I could have just flatted and seen the turn or could have raised but the amount already in called for a shove after they raised 400 not gonna call that and raise all in was only option to take controll of the hand and i knew how badly they were playing. Game over if they dont hit i double up as only 3 would be standin. i dont blame the call here with flush and st8 draw although only card that could save them was a J or dimond not that many outs! and was obv thats what they were on if not a weaker A. With 3 suited cards on the flop its a differnt story.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
STEVE1937	Small blind		25.00	25.00	4030.00
peakz	Big blind		50.00	75.00	3710.00
	Your hole cards	K A
benmar	Call		50.00	125.00	1770.00
Dazler	Raise		150.00	275.00	2120.00
anunaki	All-in		95.00	370.00	0.00
STEVE1937	Call		125.00	495.00	3905.00
peakz	Call		100.00	595.00	3610.00
benmar	Call		100.00	695.00	1670.00
Flop
		4 K A
STEVE1937	Check
peakz	Bet		400.00	1095.00	3210.00
benmar	Fold
Dazler	All-in		2120.00	3215.00	0.00
STEVE1937	Fold
peakz	Call		1720.00	4935.00	1490.00
peakz	Show	10 Q
Dazler	Show	K A
anunaki	Show	A 4
Turn
		J
River
		8
peakz	Win	Straight to the Ace	4935.00		6425.00

DOHHHHHHH

No u played the hand perfectly.

No good player will disagree with the way you played this. 

Dazler

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush!:

No u played the hand perfectly. No good player will disagree with the way you played this. 
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

im not asking for your aproval on the hand here dohhhhh! its an example of the diffence in reasons of a shove on a flush board.

DOHHHHHHH

OK we will use that hand as an example........

Why would u ever think that doing anything other than getting all the money in on the flop wud be a good idea?

Dazler

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush!:

OK we will use that hand as an example........ Why would u ever think that doing anything other than getting all the money in on the flop wud be a good idea?
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

im not even gonna discuss it with you dohhhh you have alread disrespected my advice in gerneral from your earlier comments so ill leave it to someone else to discuss, you didnt want too talk about hands and said this wasnt the poker clinic so fine... i wont

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush!:

OK we will use that hand as an example........ Why would u ever think that doing anything other than getting all the money in on the flop wud be a good idea?
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Is it coz u can't answer this perfectly reasonable question?

Dazler

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush!:

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush! : Is it coz u can't answer this perfectly reasonable question?
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

go away do and stop being a piluk

cleaverjim

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush!:

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush! : Is it coz u can't answer this perfectly reasonable question?
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

I agree ,Cmon the dazler answer!!

DOHHHHHHH

. . . . . . .

Bobsicool3

Ok dazler that hand is perfect imo.

1) its a dym...and in middle stages. dym is fast n furious
2) there is multiple opponents in pot
3) someone has already committed 400 chips..so has 700 left. easy jam as his definately going to call as pot committed.

Dazler

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush!:

Ok dazler that hand is perfect imo. 1) its a dym...and in middle stages. dym is fast n furious 2) there is multiple opponents in pot 3) someone has already committed 400 chips..so has 700 left. easy jam as his definately going to call as pot committed.
Posted by Bobsicool3

yea i know that bobsicool would play it the same everytime, i put it on there to show when it is ideal to shove on a drawing hand as apose to the OP which i suggested it may not be. Blinds are bigger and its middle stages as you said. if you were the other player would you call?

yb

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush!:

yes i too have found this trend and players dont really understand the odds of hitting a flush and when you bet to get them off it they should be folding but they dont. I had to change my style big time because of this and you wont find it as much live but online its easy to press a button and call. So many players calling with any 2 suited cards no matter how high or low like 10,2 dimonds hoping to get a flushing flop and they shove the lot, absolute crazy bingo poker for beginners as a good player knows when to fold. Just change your style when you know you have bad players who are more likely to play like this. Keep the betting low if they are likely to keep calling and punish them on the river when they miss.  Only thing on this hand is he did have the nut flush and 2 over cards and sometimes players will gamble i have done it with hands like this, its the ones who call with rubbish hands that make you sick.
Posted by Dazler

how do you punish them on blank rivers?

Dazler

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush!:

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush! : how do you punish them on blank rivers?
Posted by yb

valid point lol unless they try and bluff which i find quite often is the case when they miss it, but you can string them along to the river and take down a decent sized stack of theres if there prone to continuoulsy call on draws and miss, this is what i meant by this. Rather than you being punished for your whole stack against a bad drawing hand by shoving post.

yb

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush!:

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush! : valid point lol unless they try and bluff which i find quite often is the case when they miss it, but you can string them along to the river and take down a decent sized stack of theres if there prone to continuoulsy call on draws and miss, this is what i meant by this. Rather than you being punished for your whole stack against a bad drawing hand by shoving post.
Posted by Dazler

meh if it was a choice between getting 30% or 100% of my stack in as a 65% favourite i know which one i'd choose!

Dazler

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush!:

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush! : meh if it was a choice between getting 30% or 100% of my stack in as a 65% favourite i know which one i'd choose!
Posted by yb

depends on the scenario can be differnt depending on how you feel about it at the time and whether you wanna risk your torny life or not that early on. Im not saying never do it just if you keep getting outdrawn all the time change your syle of play to suit. If your happy to do it then do it, you may be a tight player or a loose player everyones different, If you were on the bubble for instance would you make that move and at what cost will it be if they do hit. Theres no right or wrong just differnt ways of playing it.

Dazler

as you can see here i bet only half the pot, and enduce him to call im not risking everything until the turn and he still feels he has odds to call on his K high flush draw but with only one card not 2 cards to come its even less risk to me and i have him pot commited and double up, but what if i shoved on the flop rather than reraising? im taking more risks and taking a complete gamble. Again this was a dym and blinds were only 30 as apose to the previous hand i showed where blinds were higher.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
PlastikTaf	Small blind		15.00	15.00	3695.00
Dazler	Big blind		30.00	45.00	2350.00
	Your hole cards	4 4
CARTHIEF	Fold
kingeck	Raise		90.00	135.00	4951.00
PlastikTaf	Fold
Dazler	Call		60.00	195.00	2290.00
Flop
		5 4 A
Dazler	Bet		97.50	292.50	2192.50
kingeck	Raise		195.00	487.50	4756.00
Dazler	Raise		536.25	1023.75	1656.25
kingeck	Call		438.75	1462.50	4317.25
Turn
		10
Dazler	All-in		1656.25	3118.75	0.00
kingeck	Call		1656.25	4775.00	2661.00
Dazler	Show	4 4
kingeck	Show	7 K
River
		6
Dazler	Win	Three 4s	4775.00		4775.00

Dazler

this one i didnt play so well and prob should have put a bet out on the turn but had 2 callers on the flop so i have to presume that one has a heart in there hand and fold on the river after they bet. But i took a gamble in this instance and still survived and went on to cash but if i did hold pk As for instance and shoved i think that would be a reckless move and wouldnt of cashed.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
bodanel83	Small blind		25.00	25.00	1625.00
Dazler	Big blind		50.00	75.00	1785.00
	Your hole cards	A 10
booboo69	Call		50.00	125.00	2025.00
madmaxdave	Fold
hawkslay23	Fold
Dragon82	Fold
bodanel83	Call		25.00	150.00	1600.00
Dazler	Raise		100.00	250.00	1685.00
booboo69	Call		100.00	350.00	1925.00
bodanel83	Call		100.00	450.00	1500.00
Flop
		7 2 3
bodanel83	Check
Dazler	Bet		125.00	575.00	1560.00
booboo69	Call		125.00	700.00	1800.00
bodanel83	Call		125.00	825.00	1375.00
Turn
		A
bodanel83	Check
Dazler	Check
booboo69	Check
River
		9
bodanel83	Bet		412.50	1237.50	962.50
Dazler	Call		412.50	1650.00	1147.50
booboo69	Fold
bodanel83	Show	10 Q
Dazler	Muck	A 10
bodanel83	Win	Flush to the Ace	1650.00		2612.50

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush!:

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush! : depends on the scenario can be differnt depending on how you feel about it at the time and whether you wanna risk your torny life or not that early on. Im not saying never do it just if you keep getting outdrawn all the time change your syle of play to suit. If your happy to do it then do it, you may be a tight player or a loose player everyones different, If you were on the bubble for instance would you make that move and at what cost will it be if they do hit. Theres no right or wrong just differnt ways of playing it.
Posted by Dazler

no no no no no no NOOOOOOOOOOOO

agghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Dazler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS_h6G0ptYI&feature=related

Dazler

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush!:

In Response to Re: Doesn't seem to matter what odds you get to call on here....they will call any bet when they have 4 to the flush! : no no no no no no NOOOOOOOOOOOO agghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

so just shove um all in then dohhhh thats your answer is it?. Will have to agree to disagree cos we aint going to agree i can see that

DOHHHHHHH

You've gone off on a tangent again and talking about something completely different.

" just if you keep getting outdrawn all the time change your syle of play to suit."

Changing your game because you're running bad is a bad idea.

If you roll an unbiased dice, and everytime it's a 1, 2, 3 or 4 you win 50 pounds + your 50 pound stake back, but everytime it's a 5 or 6, you lose your 50 pounds stake money.

It comes a 5 or a 6 fifteen times in a row. so you lose 15 x £50.

What do you bet on on the 16th roll?

Do you change ur tactic and bet on the 5 or 6 coming up, or continue to bet on 1,2,3 & 4, because it's the the correct thing to do, +ev,  and over time you will make money doing it?

Dazler

put the full sentence in dohhh

Im not saying never do it just if you keep getting outdrawn all the time change your syle of play to suit. If your happy to do it then do it, you may be a tight player or a loose player everyones different

the guy in the OP shoves on suited boards yes? and has posted it cos he prob does this a lot and loses. he says it dosnt seem to matter what odds you get on a 4 to the flush there gonna call yes? its for his torny life yes? The blinds are low yes? So dont you think he should change his style of play? and learn to play diffently?

Dazler

i changed my style of play because i was betting too much and kept being outdrawn since ive been more cautious with these types of players and mixed it up a bit my poker has improved. If i just stuck to the same type of play each time i would be predictable also. So depending on bet sizes, stack and whats on the board i change my style against a loose drawing player.