food for thought

bludreid11

 Yips,   I asked you to post your song not the Holocaust.?

bludreid11

some years ago i saw an experiment where scientists placed some rats in a big cage.There was an ample food and water supply,and this supply was renewed at 12am every day.to begin with every rat got on well with its niegbours,and could eat and drink anytime it wanted.As time went on,more rats were introduced,the food supply remained the same,although this was enough to maintain the population,they started to wait at the specified hour to ensure they got their share.Then more rats were introduced,they started to fight for space to biuld their nests,and would squabble at meal times,to get their share.Yet more rats were put into the cage,fighting became the norm,for space and food/water.Yet more and more rats were put into the cage,now the cage was overpopulated for nesting space and food supply.
were as before, fights that broke out would end in the weaker rat running away. Now they would kill each other.
I think its easy to look at what happened in that cage,and equate it to whats happening on earth now.
The earths population has reached 7 billion,if a man sees his child hungry,he will use whatever means he can to feed his family,we are blessed in this country,at the momment, but how long before the tipping piont is reached ??????

FLASHJONNY

jeepers im goin to hide behind the settee mummy

NODEAL

In Response to food for thought:

some years ago i saw an experiment where scientists placed some rats in a big cage.There was an ample food and water supply,and this supply was renewed at 12am every day.to begin with every rat got on well with its niegbours,and could eat and drink anytime it wanted.As time went on,more rats were introduced,the food supply remained the same,although this was enough to maintain the population,they started to wait at the specified hour to ensure they got their share.Then more rats were introduced,they started to fight for space to biuld their nests,and would squabble at meal times,to get their share.Yet more rats were put into the cage,fighting became the norm,for space and food/water.Yet more and more rats were put into the cage,now the cage was overpopulated for nesting space and food supply. were as before, fights that broke out would end in the weaker rat running away. Now they would kill each other. I think its easy to look at what happened in that cage,and equate it to whats happening on earth now. The earths population has reached 7 billion,if a man sees his child hungry,he will use whatever means he can to feed his family,we are blessed in this country,at the momment, but how long before the tipping piont is reached ??????
Posted by bludreid11

all of the people on earth could live in the state of texas each with enough land to grow thier own food.   overpopulation is hundreds if not thousands of yeas away.  all that ballony is just brainwashing.

paige55

In Response to Re: food for thought:

jeepers im goin to hide behind the settee mummy
Posted by FLASHJONNY

IM  GONNA HIDE UNDER THE BED

bludreid11

In Response to Re: food for thought:

In Response to food for thought : all of the people on earth could live in the state of texas each with enough land to grow thier own food.   overpopulation is hundreds if not thousands of yeas away.  all that ballony is just brainwashing.
Posted by NODEAL

if you believe that,look at texas.or any state for that matter,you say that there is room for everyone,and able to supply all their food needs.In some sense your correct,space?its a big state but to fit  7 billion  ?? unlikely,and to be able to feed that amount of people ??not even if you you could convince everyone to eat rice,and rice only,and water??
Africa could sustain its population,with no need to look for aid,IF mankind wasnt so corrupt or greedy.how many times do we see african leaders in their vast mansions,and starving children on our T.V. screens.
I dont know where you live but ill bet,you use a supermarket for your shopping,and if you were offered a plot of land,could you feed yourself and your family from that small plot ?? how long would it take for your wife/husband to start moaning they were hungry,or needed something other than what your growing ??
next  look at your security,if you have a productive plot,how long before someone comes and takes it off you ??
BUT your young at the momment,and able to defend your plot, but for how long ? it would soon decend into anarchy.
look at the state of brittain,congested roads,people fighting for their little bit of space,ive known people to kill because of a parking space outside their house. we now hear that the old and infirmed are having their benifits cut, because we cant afford it.No polititian will ever tell us this,but i think the tipping piont is very close.
oil and gas,have a limited life,and the small resources that remain will in a very few years will only  be afforded to the super rich.
so grab your bit of texas quick,and grab your gardenig manual,

logdon

   Jeee's were all Ostriches not to see Armageddon coming. Were you at some point in your life part of a government think tank buried deep in a mountain side working on the Eden project or are you descended from Vlad the Impaler here to drive stakes through our hearts.  Your a bundle of fun!    is under your floor boards the entrance to hell.  If this is how you become listening to Runrig  don't bother posting it.    Think you need lots of HUGS.  and  :-))))))))))

paige55

THERE,S A RAT IN MY KITCHEN  WHAT AM I GONNA DO XX

paige55

CALL ON UB40

FLASHJONNY

favourite songs you would danced to this at maine road like me paige the wonderful paul carrack how long 2track of my tears smokey robinson an the miracles 3bon jovi livin on a prayer 4 elvis suspicous minds 5 son of a preacher man dusty springfield all different genres

NODEAL

In Response to Re: food for thought:

In Response to Re: food for thought : if you believe that,look at texas.or any state for that matter,you say that there is room for everyone,and able to supply all their food needs.In some sense your correct,space?its a big state but to fit  7 billion  ?? unlikely,and to be able to feed that amount of people ??not even if you you could convince everyone to eat rice,and rice only,and water?? Africa could sustain its population,with no need to look for aid,IF mankind wasnt so corrupt or greedy.how many times do we see african leaders in their vast mansions,and starving children on our T.V. screens. I dont know where you live but ill bet,you use a supermarket for your shopping,and if you were offered a plot of land,could you feed yourself and your family from that small plot ?? how long would it take for your wife/husband to start moaning they were hungry,or needed something other than what your growing ?? next  look at your security,if you have a productive plot,how long before someone comes and takes it off you ?? BUT your young at the momment,and able to defend your plot, but for how long ? it would soon decend into anarchy. look at the state of brittain,congested roads,people fighting for their little bit of space,ive known people to kill because of a parking space outside their house. we now hear that the old and infirmed are having their benifits cut, because we cant afford it.No polititian will ever tell us this,but i think the tipping piont is very close. oil and gas,have a limited life,and the small resources that remain will in a very few years will only  be afforded to the super rich. so grab your bit of texas quick,and grab your gardenig manual,
Posted by bludreid11

I live in the philippines, Very poor country, I live with the regular people, even although its difficult for people here to survive because of the wage structure and lack of decent soil its safer here than in glasgow where I was born, The average person here is very honerable kind and friendly even in desperate circumstances, The woman I married, I married because I can learn a lot from her as she has all of the qualities I admire in a human being, I am constantly humbled by most philippinos.

The world is a rat race if you believe what you are taught,  living in dread and fear is what the power hungry want you to do,  you will then turn to them to solve your problems they created.  globel over population and global warming is a fallacy they want all of us in the earth to pay carbon tax and then they will truly have us.

If global warming is true then why is greenland called greenland?  greenland was green not so long ago. Its coverd in ice now,  seems like the word is getting cooler, doesnt it?

I know global warming wasnt your point, Its just an example of thier brainwashing lies.

Peter

bludreid11

i totally understand your point about the philippino people,i was there in 1971, based in subic bay, almost all of the oriental people,are kind and honerable,but they do like to follow the god of fortune. but that wasnt the piont i was making.i was highlighting an experiment i once watched,and tried to equate their actions to those of human beings.im blessed because i live in a beautiful part of the world,where there is ample space for everyone  to live,there are tree lined roads,with all houses having large gardens,so i dont have the problems of overcrowded housing schemes,noisey neighbours,also i can look out my windows and look over the sea to the front or woodland area to the rear.BUT it wouldnt take much to destroy this little oasis.you mention glasgow, or any other major city,high rise flats, that people are terrified to go out, grassy areas that kids cant  play in, street crime is the norm,almost no go areas for the police.mothers who have to walk/drive their kids to school,because their too frightened to let them walk on their own.im not harking back to the "good old days" with rose coulored glasses,when i was young,there were far fewer people,therefor far less crime.when houses were biult,they had gardens,space for people to live.any new houses now,are like egg boxes.
you dont believe in global warming,it doesnt mean that the place is getting hotter, its the rise of the sea levels over the planet,look to history,there are cities under the oceans that can be seen just now,at one stage they were vibrante,trading areas,but whether by quick violent action,or slow decline,only science will tell. ANTARTICA was once a fertile land,so greenland was well named at that time.BUT the overall fact that you cant get away from is  the earths population is 7 billion,we already have, the haves and have nots,in a short period, the haves will become less, and the have nots will become more,just thinking that its what some b/s thats been put out by governments,im afraid is somewhat deluded,or even niave,
i can honestly say that im the most cynical person on the planet,and not easily swayed in my judgement, by those in authourity.

NODEAL

In Response to Re: food for thought:

i totally understand your point about the philippino people,i was there in 1971, based in subic bay, almost all of the oriental people,are kind and honerable,but they do like to follow the god of fortune. but that wasnt the piont i was making.i was highlighting an experiment i once watched,and tried to equate their actions to those of human beings.im blessed because i live in a beautiful part of the world,where there is ample space for everyone  to live,there are tree lined roads,with all houses having large gardens,so i dont have the problems of overcrowded housing schemes,noisey neighbours,also i can look out my windows and look over the sea to the front or woodland area to the rear.BUT it wouldnt take much to destroy this little oasis.you mention glasgow, or any other major city,high rise flats, that people are terrified to go out, grassy areas that kids cant  play in, street crime is the norm,almost no go areas for the police.mothers who have to walk/drive their kids to school,because their too frightened to let them walk on their own.im not harking back to the "good old days" with rose coulored glasses,when i was young,there were far fewer people,therefor far less crime.when houses were biult,they had gardens,space for people to live.any new houses now,are like egg boxes. you dont believe in global warming,it doesnt mean that the place is getting hotter, its the rise of the sea levels over the planet,look to history,there are cities under the oceans that can be seen just now,at one stage they were vibrante,trading areas,but whether by quick violent action,or slow decline,only science will tell. ANTARTICA was once a fertile land,so greenland was well named at that time.BUT the overall fact that you cant get away from is  the earths population is 7 billion,we already have, the haves and have nots,in a short period, the haves will become less, and the have nots will become more,just thinking that its what some b/s thats been put out by governments,im afraid is somewhat deluded,or even niave, i can honestly say that im the most cynical person on the planet,and not easily swayed in my judgement, by those in authourity.
Posted by bludreid11

Ok, you started off by compairing rats to human beings via an interesting(to you) experiment and thier behavour when overpopulated ,  First point is people are not rats(fact) People do not behave like rats (fact) Do rats lay down thier lives for anouther Rat? Do rats have sense of right and wrong?
You are entitled to compare yourself to a rat but you cant look into other peoples minds and equate thier minds with yours, you may only wonder.(fact)
I clearly rebutted your point about humans being the same as rats when I pointed out that the philippines has a greater population than the uk with lots of poverty and very little fertile land people are going hungry and are desperate and yet live to a higher value system than a rat, I hope you will not dissagree with this obvious point.

I also hate to remind you that your idea of the planet getting hotter is way off the mark unless you are talking from one year to the next, It would be entirely stupid to measure the heating or cooling of a planet over 5,10 or even 20 yrs , The temprature has to be measured over a few hundred or even thousands of years and as I already said greenland was green a feww hundred years ago hence the evidence suggests that the planet is cooling. 
glasgow was an enjoyable place to grow up as I experienced.
you made the presumption in your first reply to my post that I probably live within walking distance of a mall and you were wrong, The subtance of your arguement is presumption in total.

Finally, You make the same mistake to presume that the philippinos/Asians follow the god of fortune which means you either know all of them or most of them or personally know god.

Watch this video and please let me know if you change your mind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zOXmJ4jd-8

Peter
Peter

logdon

Wo Ho aren't you a little Jekyll & Hyde.     Like proving Aliens exist or visit Earth, he makes a living from After Dinner Speaking. Intelligent man but so was David Ike. My Jury is out on this one,  only time will tell,  but then it may be to late. Join my mission into Deep Space you know it makes sense. ?  I'll leave you two boys to fight it out.  In my book hugs are the only cure.!   :-))

NODEAL

LOL LMAO,  Throw in an insulting totaly invalid analogy, Slip in some hugs an kisses for disquise, wash your hands of the subject, lol 

Ever thought of maybe being a polittian?
Santa clause seems more real than you.

paige55

logdon dont post anymore on this thread,i no i should not ask this of you.but we need our captain. xx paige

logdon

In Response to Re: food for thought:

LOL LMAO,  Throw in an insulting totaly invalid analogy, Slip in some hugs an kisses for disquise, wash your hands of the subject, lol  Ever thought of maybe being a polittian? Santa clause seems more real than you.
Posted by NODEAL

 This is not my Thread;   As I said,  time will tell which argument is correct.  You offered up the clip for viewing and response. He did come over to me as Waco type indoctrination with evangelistic mix.  I did read the reviews, not to good were they and he did have a Hall full of supporters,  to his credit he did say,   make your own minds up.   I don't think me wading though all of his speeches would change my conclusion.  I'm on Humpty's side I sit on the fence.!  Anyway is this Jekyll or Hyde telling me my conclusion is invalid, it's my view like it or lump it, move on .?      "Mrs Clause is the unsung hero of Christmas"! did you know that, or do you care.  So let me be the first to wish you,   from Hubby "Santa" and me.    A very Merry Christmas.  He is real he leaves me presents ever year you know. Ho Ho Ho

 

NODEAL

your opinion is your opinion, I didnt realy attach any importace to your opinion on the subject.
I only noticed your analogy of trying to liken lord monkton(Who uses science to back up his arguement) with davis icke who backs up his theories with nowt. I then noticed your likening me to jeckle an hyde and then advising me that kisses and hugs is the way to go!!!!!!! (kiss of death) 

lol And you liken me to jeckle an hyde wtf....
 
Listen to your friend paige55 and shut up stupid woman.

I wonder if ill get another forum ban for pointing out the truth, You are a woman and you are stupid,  Seems fair enough to me.

paige55

TIME YOU WENT TO BED NODEAL,AND YES I AM A WOMAN IM NO WAY STUPID,I MAY MAKE SPEALLING MISTAKES, NO NOTHING ABOUT COMPUTER,S.BUT WISE I AM,GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND START YOUR LIFE.BECAUSE WHEN YOU GET HURT YOU WILL SURE NO WHAT PAIN IS. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO NO I WILL TELL YOU, XXX PAIGE A STUPID WOMAM

paige55

NODEAL I DO HOPE YOUR WIFE IS STILL WITH US IF NOT I AM SORRY ABOUT THAT, AND CAN UNDERSTAND YOUR PAIN,BUT ARE YOU CALLING ALL WOMEN STUPID

bludreid11

only a person who has lost the argument,stoops to insult. you seem so sure of your own opinion that scientific facts  wont sway you. poeple and rats are different (fact) have you never been in a situation where your life depended on your actions,and that because of those actions others have died.???  people do (fact ) rats will defend their territory (fact) people will too (fact) the ice caps are melting faster now than they have over the last 50 years (fact ) there are now navigtable passages through the polar region that havnt been there in living memory. (fact ) oil/ gas will not last forever (fact ) i cannot speak for other people throughout the world,as im not god (fact ) the population is over 7 billion (fact ) with floods and droughts throughout the world the food supply,and the arable land to grow it is under more and more pressure (fact )do rats kill for religeous beliefs ?
no,but man does (fact) do rats kill for envy? no man does (fact ) do rats kill for greed ? no  but man does.(fact) in many ways rats conduct themselves better than mankind (fact )
i have travelled in that part of the world,in hong kong/singapore/phillapeans/ bankock people are poor and live their lives in an honourable way,but that is the case in most of the world (fact)
in brittain we live in a temperate climate,this is because of the  GULF STREAM (fact ) as the ice cap melts more fresh water enters the artic ocean, this slows the gulf stream down,creating less current through the north atlantic,thus slowing the gulf stream even more,if this continues,brittain will get colder,and become part of the polar ice cap (fact )
your post insulting logdon shows you as a small minded, insignificant,little boy who doesnt deserve to be replied to.if you wish to make a point,or put forward an argument, then use adult,articulate ways that grown up people will read

NODEAL

In Response to Re: food for thought:

TIME YOU WENT TO BED NODEAL,AND YES I AM A WOMAN IM NO WAY STUPID,I MAY MAKE SPEALLING MISTAKES, NO NOTHING ABOUT COMPUTER,S.BUT WISE I AM,GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND START YOUR LIFE.BECAUSE WHEN YOU GET HURT YOU WILL SURE NO WHAT PAIN IS. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO NO I WILL TELL YOU, XXX PAIGE A STUPID WOMAM
Posted by paige55

Lol, If the shoe fits,   its obvious I wasnt talking to you,   well obvious to me,   read my post again and think about it this time,    I called bogdon stupid not you,    I said she should take your previous advice and say nowt,    my goodness twylight zone stuff.

NODEAL

In Response to Re: food for thought:

NODEAL I DO HOPE YOUR WIFE IS STILL WITH US IF NOT I AM SORRY ABOUT THAT, AND CAN UNDERSTAND YOUR PAIN,BUT ARE YOU CALLING ALL WOMEN STUPID
Posted by paige55

LOL are you on drugs or something?

NODEAL

In Response to Re: food for thought:

only a person who has lost the argument,stoops to insult. you seem so sure of your own opinion that scientific facts  wont sway you. poeple and rats are different (fact) have you never been in a situation where your life depended on your actions,and that because of those actions others have died.???  people do (fact ) rats will defend their territory (fact) people will too (fact) the ice caps are melting faster now than they have over the last 50 years (fact ) there are now navigtable passages through the polar region that havnt been there in living memory. (fact ) oil/ gas will not last forever (fact ) i cannot speak for other people throughout the world,as im not god (fact ) the population is over 7 billion (fact ) with floods and droughts throughout the world the food supply,and the arable land to grow it is under more and more pressure (fact ) i have travelled in that part of the world,in hong kong/singapore/phillapeans/thilland.many people are poor and live their lives in an honourable way,but that is the case in most of the world (fact) in brittain we live in a temperate climate,this is because of the  GULF STREAM (fact ) as the ice cap melts more fresh water enters the artic ocean, this slows the gulf stream down,creating less current through the north atlantic,thus slowing the gulf stream even more,if this continues,brittain will get colder,and become part of the polar ice cap (fact ) your post insulting logdon shows you as a small minded, insignificant,little boy who doesnt deserve to be replied to.if you wish to make a point,or put forward an argument, then use adult,articulate ways that grown up people will read
Posted by bludreid11

Lol here we go again    Yawn  you have never been in a situation Blah blah blah    Im dealing with a psychic here,   its pointles if you decide what I am what I think so we will have to agree to dissagree,   you live in the rat race and ill stick with the human race.

logdon

In Response to Re: food for thought:

your opinion is your opinion, I didnt realy attach any importace to your opinion on the subject. I only noticed your analogy of trying to liken lord monkton(Who uses science to back up his arguement) with davis icke who backs up his theories with nowt. I then noticed your likening me to jeckle an hyde and then advising me that kisses and hugs is the way to go!!!!!!! (kiss of death)  lol And you liken me to jeckle an hyde wtf....   Listen to your friend paige55 and shut up stupid woman. I wonder if ill get another forum ban for pointing out the truth, You are a woman and you are stupid,  Seems fair enough to me.
Posted by NODEAL

You stealing Elsa's  Avatar says it all. ? Head in the sand, can't think of one of your own.  Did I touch a nerve.!   Your not the only one to be banned,  its not a badge of honour for me more a lack of concentration. Yes, call me the Black Widow but I never called you stupid and think the dark side of your character is rearing its ugly head once again. If you can't take criticism then why post on the Forum.  Your argument has merit but does not make it right.  Bludreid is the one you need to challenge and as yet he has not responded to your post. So far I am the only person to comment and I'm Neutral so why not wait to make your judgement that I am the Idiot and you are Grasshopper.  Happy to respond to your Questions fun or serious but if you are just looking for confrontation then this is my last comment on anything you post.  Annie.       

NODEAL

In Response to Re: food for thought:

In Response to Re: food for thought : You stealing Elsa's  Avatar says it all. ? Head in the sand, can't think of one of your own.  Did I touch a nerve.!   Your not the only one to be banned,  its not a badge of honour for me more a lack of concentration. Yes, call me the Black Widow but I never called you stupid and think the dark side of your character is rearing its ugly head once again. If you can't take criticism then why post on the Forum.  Your argument has merit but does not make it right.  Bludreid is the one you need to challenge and as yet he has not responded to your post. So far I am the only person to comment and I'm Neutral so why not wait to make your judgement that I am the Idiot and you are Grasshopper.  Happy to respond to your Questions fun or serious but if you are just looking for confrontation then this is my last comment on anything your posts.  Annie.       
Posted by logdon

Last comment?  is that a promiss?...lol  we have yet another psychic here, I cant take criticism, Speak for yourself not for me, you criticized I responded, I welcome critisism and if I agree then thats fine,  I just happen to find your character two faced with a boot disguised as a hug.   As for touching a nerve, The truth is your mildly amusing to me at best.

paige55

In Response to Re: food for thought:

In Response to Re: food for thought : LOL are you on drugs or something?
Posted by NODEAL

NO DRUGS FOR ME, BUT IM SURE YOU ARE,:):):) GET A GRIP MAN FOR GOODNESS SAKE. AND LEAVE ANNIE ALONE,ARE YOU IN LOVE WITH HER ME THINKS SO,YOU JUST CANT LEAVE HER ALONE.NODEAL IS IN LOVE WITH LOGDON

bludreid11

In Response to Re: food for thought:

In Response to Re: food for thought : Last comment?  is that a promiss?...lol  we have yet another psychic here, I cant take criticism, Speak for yourself not for me, you criticized I responded, I welcome critisism and if I agree then thats fine,  I just happen to find your character two faced with a boot disguised as a hug.   As for touching a nerve, The truth is your mildly amusing to me at best.
Posted by NODEAL

yet again you stoop to insult. you either cant put forward an intellectual argument,either through lack of vocabulary,or you have totally lost and cant find a way to accept that.
there is nothing you have said so far that convinces me that you have a valid point,on any of the subjects put forward.
ive given you some fundimental facts, and these are indisputable,if you wish to read them again,note them down,and answer them one by one,i will, to the best of my limited ability, to answer any or all of your queries.
just being abusive,or insulting wins nothing,and shows you as someone who looks at the facts but refuses to believe them,

NODEAL

In Response to Re: food for thought:

In Response to Re: food for thought : yet again you stoop to insult. you either cant put forward an intellectual argument,either through lack of vocabulary,or you have totally lost and cant find a way to accept that. there is nothing you have said so far that convinces me that you have a valid point,on any of the subjects put forward. ive given you some fundimental facts, and these are indisputable,if you wish to read them again,note them down,and answer them one by one,i will, to the best of my limited ability, to answer any or all of your queries. just being abusive,or insulting wins nothing,and shows you as someone who looks at the facts but refuses to believe them,
Posted by bludreid11

No, im happy to accept that you equate humans with rats, I just dissagree, I agree that its a fact that rats act like rats on this your correct ,  I cant realy expand to much on the main point.
As for the insults your talking about then I cant help pointing out what is only my opinion that someone who thinks rats and humans have the same behavour is a bit silly.
To be completely clear I peter state intelectually that I dont believe rats and humans behave the same in desperate circumstances and im perfectly happy to accept you dissagree and dont care what you think of me.
chill out   WE DISSAGREE

NODEAL

In Response to Re: food for thought:

In Response to Re: food for thought : NO DRUGS FOR ME, BUT IM SURE YOU ARE,:):):) GET A GRIP MAN FOR GOODNESS SAKE. AND LEAVE ANNIE ALONE,ARE YOU IN LOVE WITH HER ME THINKS SO,YOU JUST CANT LEAVE HER ALONE.NODEAL IS IN LOVE WITH LOGDON
Posted by paige55

Ok please answer me on this, Do you accept that you made a boo boo in that you thought I was calling you stupid instead of logdon?

As for the rest of what you said, What are you 5???lol
chuckie can stick up for herself(maybe voodoo or sumink similar)

I said didly squat to you, you just embarresingly read my post wrong you plug.

NODEAL

In Response to Re: food for thought:

In Response to Re: food for thought : yet again you stoop to insult. you either cant put forward an intellectual argument,either through lack of vocabulary,or you have totally lost and cant find a way to accept that. there is nothing you have said so far that convinces me that you have a valid point,on any of the subjects put forward. ive given you some fundimental facts, and these are indisputable,if you wish to read them again,note them down,and answer them one by one,i will, to the best of my limited ability, to answer any or all of your queries. just being abusive,or insulting wins nothing,and shows you as someone who looks at the facts but refuses to believe them,
Posted by bludreid11

She deserves what I said, i was rebutting your claims, she came in with the jeckle an hyde comment I listened to her critisism with interest and simply responded with my thoughts on her, sound fair to me.

As for you your main point is in relation to the rat experement backing up an idea that humans will react in the same manner,   i realy thought you would yield to my assertion that humans dont in most cases react like rats,    but you dont want to yield so if you realy want me to give some examples I will.

If you want to discuss another point lets get the rat thingy out the road first.