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In Response to When is it ok to say "Really?"?:
I posted a reply earlier in thread which I know went off topic a good bit, but was partly in reply to your other thread. I get the feeling you didnt like what I said but it was meant to be helpful to you in dealing with the variance. I know downswings are tough to deal with, and as you depend on poker for part of your income (I think?) it must be moreso. I wasnt trying to downplay your bad run , sorry if it came across that wayYou say its not an online is rigged thread and I realise you are trying to steer clear of a slinging match. But you have never expressed any concern about your live games when you run bad. Have you contacted the guy in charge of the room and questioned the integrity of the shuffle in his card room? I would think not and I suspect you would regard anyone who did as off their rocker. Yet you think ringing customer care of 888 or whoever is a good idea (Personally I cant think of anything more unproductive or more likely to put me on tilt). You are fully entitled to have concerns about online poker, but I think you should judge live poker by the same standards (ie what certification etc have they)
If you feel online poker should be more regulated, publish more info etc fine. Post what you think they should do. Personally (and I dont really include you in this as your arguments are usually fairly rational) I think no matter what regulation, info etc was in place a huge proportion of those who think its rigged now would still beleive its rigged
Just to finish I dont know if online poker is rigged, or if the rng does what it should. My own opinion is it probably is fair. But I think people who post no way its rigged etc should not rule out the possibility someone is or will in future try rig it
the only answers you tend to get are "dont play then" or words to that effect.
the only reason i play on sky is because of the 6 seat tables, on 9 seat tables, you tend to get people call with air because they say they are "priced in " i.e. i raise utg, x4 position 5 calls if 6 calls then round to the button are priced in.
i fully believe that sky is fair, however, it streches credability when the amount of bad beats anyone gets,
reaches epidemic level
You misunderstand my intention in regard to contacting the site however, I could have explained it better perhaps. The intention being to contact said site with this hugely negative variance period (which it genuinely is) and discuss my intention to take a break, or perhaps change sites for a while. Not to be accusatory or confrontational, simply to leverage some potential freebies.
So not to argue with them. Just to say "Look, i'm having an awful quarter, thinking about taking a break or self excluding as dont feel like burning anymore of my BR for a while, is their anything you'd like to offer me to prevent this?" Which isnt uncommon or "ludicrous" by any means. As it stood I got some free sat entries.
Online poker is like any business. It will attempt (if pushed) to retain business. I also have platinum status on that site so I imahine they'd like to keep my custom.
Ended up having a huge argument in anycase as guy was an utter patronising tool. Really insane run of MTT exits where money has gone in on the turn at 92 />8 or better and that 2 or 3 outer has miraculously got there. Something like 20 for 23 games, seriously. These werent strong hands however said patronising man I never ever said rigged. I said perpetual downswing, many times. Live, I'm running like beyond death also. But from time to time it is to be expected.
Had 5 days off and am thinking slightly clearer. I did say was approaching utter wobbly meltdown
The issue on online regulation could be argued over forever. What Licensers cover, what they dont, where issues would go, who would be responsible for resolving them, if there is a neccessity to do so by law (which frankly there isnt).
Anybody who believes that regulation is comprehensive, modern, legally binding or fair, is purely living in a dream world. My initial point being: if this was addressed (which frankly I think it will have to be given recent events) then people could play with more confidence and tested faith would become redundant.
i think i kind of get it (i hope)
my way of looking at it is this...when you go to vegas and play dice at the casino you know youre playing a game of pure luck.
if you dig deep enough someone somewhere can tell you something along the lines of 'each individual dice is made and measured and checked to provide a perfectly shaped dice that is 100% fair and can land on any number any number of times. not only this but the dice are changed every two hours and discarded and replaced with brand new dice.' - this therefore gives the customer the assurance (and excuse for losses) that the game is based purely on luck and only luck.
there are similar procedures that ensure the fairness of the roullette wheels etc.
in poker when the money goes in, especially in all in situations in tournaments, you want that same assurance because despite being ahead you are still relying on luck. you should be entitled (as a customer) to know that the outcome is based on luck and purely luck alone. a casino in Vegas can attempt to offer you this assurance. in the whole poker industry i have never played a site where there is any open dialogue about the random number generator used and the process by which cards get dealt. this lack of openess can quite logically lead to questions about the systems in use especially when you think about how much money we play for.
Can Sky Poker offer the same assurance as a vegas casino? (are we entitled to this assurance? do Sky owe us any assurance?)
surely knowing and having evidence that cards are purely random would benefit us all?
I have played here for years yet i know absolutely zero about the random number generator and have no idea where i would start in an attempt to find any answers. maybe having access to some of the information would make it easier to deal with 10 suck outs in a row.
i also dont understand why this information isnt accessible to customers as surely this information is documented somewhere and would only require adding one more link to the website?
does it make a difference to the river card if i wait before i check? (at FTP it did)
is the flop, turn, river determined the moment someone calls my raise pre flop? or as the hand progresses?
Wanting answers to these types of questions does not mean im saying its rigged but if a friend of mine wants to start their first online poker account and is concerned about it being rigged could i assure them it isn't? no - i can only list a load of reasons why it isn't likely, or makes no sense, to be rigged.
If i was facing a similar situation to OP i would definitely appreciate being able to completely rule out (idealistic obv) dodgey software as one of the reasons for my downswing. as things stand currently 'rigged' cannot be completely ruled out and for some people (that funny Brian guy) its a major concern about playing online poker.
Another thought . . . that's an awful lot of driver errors too.
Blaming the dealer live for the outdraw is the same as blaming a piece of software.
Should clients be able to verify if the software is adequate or/and should the client inform the business if the software seems to be working bad - Yes
On receiving complaints should the business react in a positive way and investigate - Yes
The fact the all sites just say - it's all ok - run better - only serves to increase the paranoia regarding possible fixing of the software or RNG.
I have been playing live and online and see the same bad beats/outdraws/ 2% r's
It a sick game !!
Hardest part is not tilting
Very well said and pretty much exactly what I was talking about