You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!
NL8, QQ and two all ins
Readless on oppos. Is my 4 bet big enough and is it profitable to call here?
| JackoG9 | Small blind | £0.04 | £0.04 | £7.27 | |
| Ch3ndy | Big blind | £0.08 | £0.12 | £9.33 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| blindbob | Raise | £0.16 | £0.28 | £6.24 | |
| 1875blue | Raise | £0.40 | £0.68 | £6.48 | |
| JackoG9 | Raise | £1.28 | £1.96 | £5.99 | |
| Ch3ndy | Fold | ||||
| blindbob | All-in | £6.24 | £8.20 | £0.00 | |
| 1875blue | All-in | £6.48 | £14.68 | £0.00 | |
| JackoG9 | ?? |
Comments
Like Idonkcallu said you may be up against AK AK but it is more likely your up again at least one overpair. Also as said take notes on both hands for the future. Like the 4-bet you made pre flop.
Out of interest what did they both have and did you lay down?
Thanks for the comments.
As Amybr said, the fact that it was Saturday night - and there was loads of loose play - almost made me call, but I felt both all ins after a 4 bet meant one of them had to be AA / KK, so decided to fold. Fact I was readless influenced the decision.
Didn't kick the cat RandomRiv but gave the mouse a slam.
I think good fold reguardless of what they had.
But the fact that 1 did have an over pair and you correctly layed it down makes it feel an even better fold. Great feeling when you do that.
If this was 2 way though im calling
Since you dont get flatted often here and you want action all you really dont like is the call of the 5bet. Does the range the 3bettor shoves over your cold 4bet when utg folds really change that much from that which calls when utg shoves? Or are you intending folding if utg shoves and bettor calls?
By your logic, you're happy when you raise UTG with AA and all five oppos call as they all have weaker holdings. If you can't make a reasoned decision that an oppo has AA / KK here, then when can you? There's not even a justification of calling on the grounds that I'm pot committed.
I get it that bad / loose play is more prevalent at NL8, but if someone has these hands, then the betting is still going to go like this, even at these levels. Possibly more often as fewer players are capable of calling to disguise strength of their hand.
May aswell flat and take a flop if your 4 bet folding to a 5 bet shove
Anyway good fold ) So easily could have been JJ & AK
IMO i don't think it's +ev long term to be making these folds
I haven't seen this play at these stakes that often where one DOESN'T at least have an overpair.
If the cards are turned face up are you all still calling? Cos here the cards are turned face up as much as they ever will be
So those who're saying you NEVER 4 bet fold here, hypothetically, what wd you do if UTG raises, UTG+1 3 bets, I 4 bet with QQ and everyone else behind goes all in. Do I call there? Obviously not.
It's not like I've committed half my stack or even close. Saying you must call here is way too rigid IMHO ...
If you should be folding here you need to give serious consideration as to whether your 4bet was the right move, because raise/folding the 3rd nuts when being flatted is unlikely is tough to justify. No way you should be4betting here imo unless you are prepared to get it in against the guy who 3bet, it just makes no sense. It sounds like you were willing to get it in v utg if 3bettor folded, so does utg shoving change utg+1 shoving range that much at 8NL? Questionable I would say
You say you definitely cant fold to the 3bet, tbh it doesnt seem out of the question to me, but yeah dont think I fold too often. You say you cant flat, why on earth not (certainly sounds better than a mandatory 4bet to make a worse hand fold to me)? Why is 4b/f a better line than flatcalling?
Also if you give both villains a range of AK,KK+ its a call. If you can be sure one has KK+ its a fold, but that has to put a question mark over whether the 4bet was a good idea
I think given bet sizing that 4 betting was necessary here, note the 3bet was only 5 big blinds, given that his 4 bet was to a normal 3 bet size then I think we can still fold if we are 5 bet because we are almost exclusively vs AA/KK then.
Note that I am of the belief that players will flat 4 bets worse then QQ at NL8.
In Response to Re: NL8, QQ and two all ins:
At these stakes would you call here?
If yes
Do you play these stakes or are you remembering this stake from the past when you played them?
I think your under estimating the level of play at the beginners tables. 2 years ago you could call this with 88 and it will be profitable. Not today!