30nl AA & nfd facing raise on flop.

DOHHHHHHH

The opponent is a new tight reg, no history between us, seems like a rock solid tag.

Call, fold or shove?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
haidyboy	Small blind		£0.15	£0.15	£29.25
Patito	Big blind		£0.30	£0.45	£93.19
	Your hole cards	A A
DOHHHHHHH	Raise		£1.20	£1.65	£37.57
horny309	Fold
xxx	Call		£1.20	£2.85	£38.56
Challak	Fold
haidyboy	Fold
Patito	Fold
Flop
		7 3 6
DOHHHHHHH	Bet		£2.10	£4.95	£35.47
xxx	Raise		£9.15	£14.10	£29.41
DOHHHHHHH

debdobs_67

This is a standard shove for me , its the way i always play this

IDONKCALLU

gotta agree with debs here shove all in here if u call then what the guy whos raised here could have kk with k of diamonds or even qq with q of diamonds i cant see villain here raising with a flush but i could see him raise here with a set because scraed of the 3 diamonds on flop but i would have to get it all in here dohhhh

AMYBR

Does your usual table image come into play here?

Were 30.8% @ worst, (other than when he's flopped a str flsh) when this "Tag" has called us with 45/

Against a set with a D we still have 44 />% + punishing all overs pairs with a D.

I think I make it £21 allowing him to jam rest.

If he has KdQd/Jd you've nearly got your 35%

RandomRiv

Im shipping here. Only time I'm not is if we have history and they are the type of player who only goes all in like this with a very good made hand.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: 30nl AA & nfd facing raise on flop.:

This is a standard shove for me , its the way i always play this
Posted by debdobs_67

Are you hoping for a call or a fold when you shove? Do u think he's ever folding anything after making that raise?

Can he call with worse? (if so, what)....

Can he fold better hands that we have? (if so, what).......

IDONKCALLU

would be intrested what villain had here i cant see it being a made flush u just wouldnt raise on this flop looks like a set here and protcting a big hand or kk qq with k of diamonds or q of diamonds

RandomRiv

Re-looking at this shipping may not be the right move. Didn't realise how deep they were. Only put £4 in the pot and have to shove £35 here on what is more than likely gonna need to improve. Tough spot.
Deep stack isn't one of my strengths so I'm sitting this one out and I'm interested in what will be advised

IDONKCALLU

its easy to post stuff when its not your money u are playing with but from a neutral looking in this is how i would of played it and all in if the ace wasnt a diamond would be a very easy fold does make a difference that ace being the nut flush diamond

AMYBR

replied to your PM doh.  Post finished hand at some point though!

I think you flatted, folded turn fwiw (lol)

rancid

No 3 bet pre, rock solid tag – flopped flush or set

Oppo ain’t folding

Can you call here, with implied I think yes but will oppo pay you off  

still call, tough one if ace falls on turn

AMYBR

Why would you ever call here?

To c/f non diamond turn?

For me decision always has to be made on flop.  To 3bet commit/shove or fold.

JackoG9

Looks very much like a set protecting against flush draw

rancid

In Response to Re: 30nl AA & nfd facing raise on flop.:

Why would you ever call here? To c/f non diamond turn? For me decision always has to be made on flop.  To 3bet commit/shove or fold.
Posted by AMYBR

Yeah it's always like this with this type of draw, if we call do we get paid anyway.

Therefore are we shoving just to increase the risk-reward ratio, for the times we hit is it worth it v the times we don't hit.

We are hitting 1 in 3 so...maybe a better maths person can work this out

In game I normally just shove these spots but with no FE it's like grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I hope oppo has 1 diamond

If we have direct odds then we can call and c/f turn all day, but with implied it makes the call maybe not very good )

I really am not sure either way to be honest because turn is always going to be a problem

GREGHOGG

is noone considering folding??

I think we are behind the majority of times here, To a flopped set or flush.

I agree with amybr the choice is between folding and shipping! If we ship it will prob fold out opairs imo 

any sets and made flushes will snap.

I think this could be a nitty fold in conclusion!!

pod1

sorry greg, cant entertain the idea mate

grantorino

You need ~45% equity to get it in assuming he never folds. I think you nearly have to have this v a reasonable range, could be wrong though. An indication of what his range for flatting pre is likely to be would help

grantorino

In Response to Re: 30nl AA & nfd facing raise on flop.:

is noone considering folding?? I think we are behind the majority of times here, To a flopped set or flush. I agree with amybr the choice is between folding and shipping! If we ship it will prob fold out opairs imo  any sets and made flushes will snap. I think this could be a nitty fold in conclusion!!
Posted by GREGHOGG

You really think a solid tag raise/folds overpairs on this board?

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: 30nl AA & nfd facing raise on flop.:

In Response to Re: 30nl AA & nfd facing raise on flop. : You really think a solid tag raise/folds overpairs on this board?
Posted by grantorino

not after talking to dohhhhhh lol

solid tag should not be raising worse on this board with no history with dohhhhh lol

if hes raising opairs hes looking to get it in (with the diamond as back up like QQd)

dohhhhh is crushed innit

grantorino

well I think a solid tag should pretty much always be either flatting or raising to get it in with an overpair there against almost anyone

IDONKCALLU

cant see how u can fold here greghogg u have aa and nut flush draw the villain could be raising with kk with k od diamonds or qq q of diamonds and if your up against a set u are not in that bad shape i cant see how the villain would raise here with a made flush espcially dohhh has the a of diamonds i would happily go all in and if ya up against a set so be it but u are not in bad shape 

DOHHHHHHH

Do you not think he would re - raise pre flop with QQ/KK Idonkcallu ???

I ruled those hands out for that reason.

GT dunno if u've seen but I sent u a pm.

Thanx 4 all replies so far. 

IDONKCALLU

dohhhh u said hes a new player tight regular so he could be flatting here with qq or kk he most prob has notes on u as a crazy player which u can be at times lol and basiacally trapping u with a big pair 

AMYBR

Its a really interesting post tbh DOH.  It highlights a dividing line:

Those playing their own hand vs those playing their hand vs opponents range.

Good thread.

grantorino

In Response to Re: 30nl AA & nfd facing raise on flop.:

Its a really interesting post tbh DOH.  It highlights a dividing line: Those playing their own hand vs those playing their hand vs opponents range. Good thread.
Posted by AMYBR

oooooooooh, am I a red or a blue?

Doh pm received, reply sent.

rancid

 CALL - final answer ) basis - up against flopped flush or set

going on the basis that we win 1 in 3 and stack oppo when we hit and oppo never folds to the shove

If you look at how much we risk against the reward, if we call we risk less for more profit long term
If we shove then we are risking more for less reward for the one time we hit

over the long term I think it's more profitable, I could be wrong but.... I am sure this is good

I may not be right but hey, maybe someone knows

DOHHHHHHH

Cud always spike an ace on the turn right?....

He wouldn't see that 1 coming!

And it cud also give me river outs

rancid

In Response to Re: 30nl AA & nfd facing raise on flop.:

Cud always spike an ace on the turn right?.... He wouldn't see that 1 coming! And it cud also give me   river outs
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Yeah thought that earlier an ace on turn would make it really complicated )
How could we fold turn then ?

stupid game

edit: pick the phone up and ring lol_raise - he should have an answer )

AMYBR

FWIW, I dont know if your guys are kidding, but I dont see how we can ever flat flop.

AMYBR

Sorry grantorino, definately Blue.  Only deleted post as I was having colour coding issues.

Was trying to make the word Blue Pink, but it wouldnt work. :P

Lambert180

Hey Grantorino... random unrelated question here. I see you posting on the clinic all the time with lots of really great input but I never see you playing on the site... where do you frequent??